2020 draft rumors

Originally posted by krizay:

Unlike some people im not fixated on 1 or in your case 2)

Ayiuk is fine. But id be alright with a slew of other WRs.

Because I have faith that Shanahan can scheme and get the ball in the hands of the WRs from all 50 states and not just Alabama

Lol I'm most certainly not fixated on just the top three...how about you go look at half of the WR threads in here and who started them. I've brought up a f**k ton on these WR prospects and their +/- of each & how they could fit here.

I AM about them getting a blue chip player (after trading one) at a position of need with that 13th pick. God forbid they actually get a top WR, something they haven't had since T.O. Would be a shame if they did something like that...

There's a reason SF has invested so much (and mostly failed) at the WR spot. They WANT a go to guy to help our QB. We're asking Kittle to block his ass off all game AND to be a all-pro pass catching TE. Dudes running around with a broken collarbone and a chipped bone in is foot.

I wouldn't be slamming the table for a WR at 13 if this team wasn't one or two players away from winning a super bowl...but yes let's move down off a elite talent because we want lesser talent they have a late first that they can move around all over the place to get your extra picks that you want so badly.

FWIW for someone that doesn't want to talk about it, you sure like talking about it lol

Originally posted by OsBoogie:

actually, Fant is basically 2 year deal at a pretty hefty price. I agree he's trash but they paid him like he's not. You can definitely get a RT at 48.
I'm not saying you're wrong but I think there's definitely a chance that they pick a WR1 over the OT4.

No he isn't...they'd save over $7M cutting him after 2020. They only eat $2M which is nothing with the cap going up like $40M next yr. he's basically on a 1 yr deal with little dead money after this season.

I'm telling you go read up on Douglas he is all about OL/DL. Gase is the same way.

We will see.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Lol I'm most certainly not fixated on just the top three...how about you go look at half of the WR threads in here and who started them. I've brought up a f**k ton on these WR prospects and their +/- of each & how they could fit here.

I AM about them getting a blue chip player (after trading one) at a position of need with that 13th pick. God forbid they actually get a top WR, something they haven't had since T.O. Would be a shame if they did something like that...

There's a reason SF has invested so much (and mostly failed) at the WR spot. They WANT a go to guy to help our QB. We're asking Kittle to block his ass off all game AND to a all-pro pass catching TE. Dudes running around with a broken collar bone and a chipped bone in is foot.

I wouldn't be slamming the table for a WR at 13 if this team wasn't one or two players away from winning a super bowl...but yes let's move down off a elite talent because we want lesser talent they have a late first that they can move around all over the place to get your extra picks that you want so badly.

If you believe all three of the top wrs are elite talents then I see where you're coming from.

I'm not so sure. I really like Jeudy and though he's not a Julio Jones level elite-talent I'd be thrilled to grab him at 13. I'm more torn on the other two but if we take them it'll take me all of 25 seconds to convince myself they're elite and to love them like my own lol.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
No he isn't...they'd save over $7M cutting him after 2020. They only eat $2M which is nothing with the cap going up like $40M next yr. he's basically on a 1 yr deal with little dead money after this season.

I'm telling you go read up on Douglas he is all about OL/DL. Gase is the same way.

We will see.

You're right about the contract, I misread that. For the sake of us getting a top WR, I hope you're right. I just can't write off a WR for the Jets.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Lol I'm most certainly not fixated on just the top three...how about you go look at half of the WR threads in here and who started them. I've brought up a f**k ton on these WR prospects and their +/- of each & how they could fit here.

I AM about them getting a blue chip player (after trading one) at a position of need with that 13th pick. God forbid they actually get a top WR, something they haven't had since T.O. Would be a shame if they did something like that...

There's a reason SF has invested so much (and mostly failed) at the WR spot. They WANT a go to guy to help our QB. We're asking Kittle to block his ass off all game AND to a all-pro pass catching TE. Dudes running around with a broken collar bone and a chipped bone in is foot.

I wouldn't be slamming the table for a WR at 13 if this team wasn't one or two players away from winning a super bowl...but yes let's move down off a elite talent because we want lesser talent they have a late first that they can move around all over the place to get your extra picks that you want so badly.

that's what's funny to me. pre pick 13. You we're saying "what's wrong with two deebos" & "we should trade down at all cost"

So, we now have the option to trade down at 13, while still getting a blue chip player and adding more ammo. Yet still being in a position to have 2 Deebo's but somehow to you that strategy is silly just because it wont wouldn't be in position for a Bama boy. But you're not fixated.

You keep saying you want top talent. Truth is you only want the Bama boys. People bring OT. that's dumb! they bring up CB, can get one later! They bring up DT, how many years are we going to invest. Plus we can trade down and still get one.

You don't just want top talent. You don't want to just stay at 13 for BPA. You just want a Bama Boy. Everyone other position you're constantly sayingwe can trade down from 31 and get that position. Every position but the DEEPEST position.

I don't know why you keep wasting keystrokes trying to say otherwise.

Originally posted by krizay:
that's what's funny to me. pre pick 13. You we're saying "what's wrong with two deebos" & "we should trade down at all cost"

So, we now have the option to trade down at 13, while still getting a blue chip player and adding more ammo. Yet still being in a position to have 2 Deebo's but somehow to you that strategy is silly just because it wont wouldn't be in position for a Bama boy. But you're not fixated.

You keep saying you want top talent. Truth is you only want the Bama boys. People bring OT. that's dumb! they bring up CB, can get one later! They bring up DT, how many years are we going to invest. Plus we can trade down and still get one.

You don't just want top talent. You don't want to just stay at 13 for BPA. You just want a Bama Boy. Everyone other position you're constantly sayingwe can trade down from 31 and get that position. Every position but the DEEPEST position.

I don't know why you keep wasting keystrokes trying to say otherwise.

having the 13th pick definitely changes a LOT of things though.
what "blue chip" guy do you expect available and how late?

depth shows more when trading down from 31 than trading down from 13.

Originally posted by Sunshine:

If you believe all three of the top wrs are elite talents then I see where you're coming from.

I'm not so sure. I really like Jeudy and though he's not a Julio Jones level elite-talent I'd be thrilled to grab him at 13. I'm more torn on the other two but if we take them it'll take me all of 25 seconds to convince myself they're elite and to love them like my own lol.

Lol and that's all fair

If any of these dudes were Julio 2.0 they'd be going top 3-5. Guys like him come around once in a decade.

End of the day if they guys they want are gone I'm fine moving down. I do think they value the top 3 WRs at 13 though.

Originally posted by Sunshine:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Lol I'm most certainly not fixated on just the top three...how about you go look at half of the WR threads in here and who started them. I've brought up a f**k ton on these WR prospects and their +/- of each & how they could fit here.

I AM about them getting a blue chip player (after trading one) at a position of need with that 13th pick. God forbid they actually get a top WR, something they haven't had since T.O. Would be a shame if they did something like that...

There's a reason SF has invested so much (and mostly failed) at the WR spot. They WANT a go to guy to help our QB. We're asking Kittle to block his ass off all game AND to a all-pro pass catching TE. Dudes running around with a broken collar bone and a chipped bone in is foot.

I wouldn't be slamming the table for a WR at 13 if this team wasn't one or two players away from winning a super bowl...but yes let's move down off a elite talent because we want lesser talent they have a late first that they can move around all over the place to get your extra picks that you want so badly.

If you believe all three of the top wrs are elite talents then I see where you're coming from.

I'm not so sure. I really like Jeudy and though he's not a Julio Jones level elite-talent I'd be thrilled to grab him at 13. I'm more torn on the other two but if we take them it'll take me all of 25 seconds to convince myself they're elite and to love them like my own lol.

I, too, will love them like my own...I'm ready to adopt any of the three, or a tackle.

Originally posted by OsBoogie:
having the 13th pick definitely changes a LOT of things though.
what "blue chip" guy do you expect available and how late?

depth shows more when trading down from 31 than trading down from 13.

My thoughts is trading down between 18-22. Blue chip is always debatable. Just like Ruggs and Jeudy are even debatable. My preference would be Fulton (or Henderson if available)

As for your last sentence, that too is debatable. If you trade down from 31, the best you're looking at is what a mid 2nd and mid-late 3rd? We'll use TB (45-76) for s**ts and giggles. So we pick 13, 45, 76.

Now if we trade down to say 22 with Min- There is all kinds of different offers we could get. But they are loaded with picks so more likely willing to part with his year's picks as oppose to adding next year's picks. Last year to go from 20-10 for Devin Bush Pitt gave up a 2nd and 3rd. With the Ammo Minny has I think that would/could be a reasonable expectation at 13 as well. Especially for them to replace Diggs. So we'll say we get there 22, 58, 105

22, 31, 58 & 105 shows more depth that trading down from 31 does it not? All that and we get a 5th year option on the player we select at 31. The ones that want to trade down at 31 use the 5th year option as an added bonus for the pick. Why can't we keep that added bonus.

Now the problem with that is, sure you could lose out on even the guys I want by moving down. But if you hit on all 3 of your players(perhaps even just 2 of them) they will be worth more than the difference Jeudy/Ruggs and the WR we choose with one of our 1st 4 picks.

Originally posted by krizay:

that's what's funny to me. pre pick 13. You we're saying "what's wrong with two deebos" & "we should trade down at all cost"

So, we now have the option to trade down at 13, while still getting a blue chip player.

when we had a late 31 pick and nothing until 156 yeah that's made sense to move down...Guess what buckshot...they can still do that AND I'm STILL advocating to do it!

How the hell do you know they can still get a blue chip player by moving down? How far they moving down? When's the cutoff on blue chip talent? You're making us stuff with that comment.

Originally posted by krizay:

You keep saying you want top talent. Truth is you only want the Bama boys. People bring OT. that's dumb! they bring up CB, can get one later! They bring up DT, how many years are we going to invest. Plus we can trade down and still get one.

I don't know why you keep wasting keystrokes trying to say otherwise.

I'm fine with any of the three at 13 and have said that. They're ALL on another tier compared to the rest. I prefer both Bama WRs because they're more pro-ready imo. Wait is OT a NEED? Did I miss that? Yes let's just burn a top 13 pick on a position that isn't a need an make that player play another position that none have ever played? IMO that's stupid. Toss in no off season activities to transition to a new position. Should work out great

I see ONE DT worth the pick at 13 and that's Kinlaw. I also don't think it's smart to continuously invest high picks at DT. As we've just seen we can't afford all of them when it's time to pay them. Balance out the team with top talent, why is that a bad thing? I also like Blackrock and Madubuike just as much in our defensive scheme.

I brought up how we have a massive need at CB. So that point is moot. I also think based on our scheme we can find good cover 3 guys later. IF SF played more man and less cover 3 it would make more sense to invest higher at CB.

Finally...I got all day brother. I'm in total lockdown in NY and a honey-do list a mile long. Much rather talk about the draft vs replace every door knob in the house

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by krizay:

that's what's funny to me. pre pick 13. You we're saying "what's wrong with two deebos" & "we should trade down at all cost"

So, we now have the option to trade down at 13, while still getting a blue chip player.

when we had a late 31 pick and nothing until 156 yeah that's made sense to move down...Guess what buckshot...they can still do that AND I'm STILL advocating to do it!

How the hell do you know they can still get a blue chip player by moving down? How far they moving down? When's the cutoff on blue chip talent? You're making us stuff with that comment.

Originally posted by krizay:

You keep saying you want top talent. Truth is you only want the Bama boys. People bring OT. that's dumb! they bring up CB, can get one later! They bring up DT, how many years are we going to invest. Plus we can trade down and still get one.

I don't know why you keep wasting keystrokes trying to say otherwise.

I'm fine with any of the three at 13 and have said that. They're ALL on another tier compared to the rest. I prefer both Bama WRs because they're more pro-ready imo. Wait is OT a NEED? Did I miss that? Yes let's just burn a top 13 pick on a position that isn't a need an make that player play another position that none have ever played? IMO that's stupid. Toss in no off season activities to transition to a new position. Should work out great

I see ONE DT worth the pick at 13 and that's Kinlaw. I also don't think it's smart to continuously invest high picks at DT. As we've just seen we can't afford all of them when it's time to pay them. Balance out the team with top talent, why is that a bad thing? I also like Blackrock and Madubuike just as much in our defensive scheme.

I brought up how we have a massive need at CB. So that point is moot. I also think based on our scheme we can find good cover 3 guys later. IF SF played more man and less cover 3 it would make more sense to invest higher at CB.

Finally...I got all day brother. I'm in total lockdown in NY and a honey-do list a mile long. Much rather talk about the draft vs replace every door knob in the house

Trying to find things we disagree on is harder these days. But I noticed you keep saying Brown isn't a scheme fit. I don't think that's true. Just because Brown is bigger doesn't mean he wouldn't be able to play in a one gap penetration defense.

Think about Red Bryant and Brandon Mebane. They weren't super athletic types. Not to mention AA isn't really a one gap type DT either who they just payed a lot of money to.

Just my 2 cents.

Originally posted by krizay:
My thoughts is trading down between 18-22. Blue chip is always debatable. Just like Ruggs and Jeudy are even debatable. My preference would be Fulton (or Henderson if available)

As for your last sentence, that too is debatable. If you trade down from 31, the best you're looking at is what a mid 2nd and mid-late 3rd? We'll use TB (45-76) for s**ts and giggles. So we pick 13, 45, 76.

Now if we trade down to say 22 with Min- There is all kinds of different offers we could get. But they are loaded with picks so more likely willing to part with his year's picks as oppose to adding next year's picks. Last year to go from 20-10 for Devin Bush Pitt gave up a 2nd and 3rd. With the Ammo Minny has I think that would/could be a reasonable expectation at 13 as well. Especially for them to replace Diggs. So we'll say we get there 22, 58, 105

22, 31, 58 & 105 shows more depth that trading down from 31 does it not? All that and we get a 5th year option on the player we select at 31. The ones that want to trade down at 31 use the 5th year option as an added bonus for the pick. Why can't we keep that added bonus.

Now the problem with that is, sure you could lose out on even the guys I want by moving down. But if you hit on all 3 of your players(perhaps even just 2 of them) they will be worth more than the difference Jeudy/Ruggs and the WR we choose with one of our 1st 4 picks.

I think your definition of blue chip is not what it really means. Sure, opinions are like, well you know... but look at some consensus things for instance:

The drop off from the top 3 WR's to the next tier seems to be a consensus. The next tier seems to be big with rankings all over the place.

The same can be said at CB. Consensus seems to be that it's Okudah, then Henderson, then a third tier where things are all over the place, includes Fulton.

Here's why I said what I said about having pick 13 changing the "have to trade down" argument:

We now have 2 picks in the first 4 rounds. 1 very high pick and a second 1st rounder. It's no longer a late first and nothing else.

Here's why I said what I said about depth showing more with a pick at 31 than at 13:

The tiers I mentioned above come into play here. At 13 you can have Henderson. Not at 22. You love Fulton, but he and others that are in that conversation are likely there at 31. Add to that, at 31, and 45 you see depth because the gap in players is not that big. The gap from Fulton to say, Ig or Dantzler is not that big. Some people my Fulton as CB3, some have him as CB7. That's to say, the consensus is a cluster of CB's that stretch through that range of late 1st - late 2nd.

I've read that as many as 40 players could be considered 1st round talents. Possibly more. The gap is there though. We could go through the same exercise with WRs, but I think you get the point.

It seems to me that you just do not value the top 3 WRs like the general consensus does. That's the disconnect.

Depth means a lot of good players. Not great. There's a difference. Blue Chip at 22 does not exist. Can you hit on a player that turns out to be a stud? yes. Are they a blue chip prospect? No.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Trying to find things we disagree on is harder these days. But I noticed you keep saying Brown isn't a scheme fit. I don't think that's true. Just because Brown is bigger doesn't mean he wouldn't be able to play in a one gap penetration defense.

Think about Red Bryant and Brandon Mebane. They weren't super athletic types. Not to mention AA isn't really a one gap type DT either who they just payed a lot of money to.


Just my 2 cents.

Hey I value your opinion a lot in here so I'm glad we agree a lot

It did take AA yrs to get where he's at, half his snaps are at DE as well. Brown imo is more of a run-stuffing DT than a penetration pass rushing DT. Could that change down the road sure. I just don't like him as much for us at this pt.

Also I'm not using a top 13 pick to get a Bryant/Mebane type guy.

Go check out Madubuike like him a lot for us

back to the thread topic:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2884704-matt-millers-scouting-notebook-latest-2020-draft-rumors-for-every-nfl-team

Originally posted by OsBoogie:
I think your definition of blue chip is not what it really means. Sure, opinions are like, well you know... but look at some consensus things for instance:

The drop off from the top 3 WR's to the next tier seems to be a consensus. The next tier seems to be big with rankings all over the place.

The same can be said at CB. Consensus seems to be that it's Okudah, then Henderson, then a third tier where things are all over the place, includes Fulton.

Here's why I said what I said about having pick 13 changing the "have to trade down" argument:

We now have 2 picks in the first 4 rounds. 1 very high pick and a second 1st rounder. It's no longer a late first and nothing else.

Here's why I said what I said about depth showing more with a pick at 31 than at 13:

The tiers I mentioned above come into play here. At 13 you can have Henderson. Not at 22. You love Fulton, but he and others that are in that conversation are likely there at 31. Add to that, at 31, and 45 you see depth because the gap in players is not that big. The gap from Fulton to say, Ig or Dantzler is not that big. Some people my Fulton as CB3, some have him as CB7. That's to say, the consensus is a cluster of CB's that stretch through that range of late 1st - late 2nd.

I've read that as many as 40 players could be considered 1st round talents. Possibly more. The gap is there though. We could go through the same exercise with WRs, but I think you get the point.

It seems to me that you just do not value the top 3 WRs like the general consensus does. That's the disconnect.

Depth means a lot of good players. Not great. There's a difference. Blue Chip at 22 does not exist. Can you hit on a player that turns out to be a stud? yes. Are they a blue chip prospect? No.

I somehow manage to find myself in this debate yet again today. Though I must admit this one has a different feel than the others I've had. And there in lies the rub.

I feel Fulton and Henderson are on the same tier (for us, I have Fulton higher). In our system, I also don't value the top 3 WRs much higher than the other WRs. As you said, that is our disconnect.

I'm not basing my own personal rankings off of a consensus of what other people's opinion are for our system. I'm basing it off of my opinion, with my own rankings for what I believe is best for our system.

To me, you are doing the same thing with the CB position as am I doing with the WR position. You compared Fulton to Danzler. Yes danzler fits our cover 3 system, but he can't hold a candle to Fulton in man coverage. To me, getting a top notch CB that fits the system and shut opponents down (led the nation in forced inclompletions. ONLY CB to not allow more 1st downs than forced incompletions ) is better than getting a consensus top WR that in our system will eb slightly better than what we can get a whole round later.

2 different philosophies.