Trey Lance QB NDSU

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
He's just so raw and inaccurate. Needs a ton of work. Seems like a good guy, good leader smart and mature. Just a huge gamble.

He's actually not inaccurate at all and he's only raw in the sense that he hasn't played that many games (same as Mac Jones) and the competition he played wasn't nearly as good as the other prospects. 28 touchdowns to 0 interceptions in 2019 which is a college record.

I don't know why people think he needs a ton of work but Justin Fields or Mac Jones doesn't. Lance has played in a pro style system, he can look off safeties, he knows when to check it down, his footwork during play action and rolling out is fantastic, he can go through multiple reads, he's basically displayed the most ability to play within Kyle's system of any QB in the draft due to his school's scheme.

I'm not saying there is no risk and that he's better than Fields overall but just labeling him "raw" and "inaccurate" is just lazy scouting at this point.

Just because he ran a pro offense doesn't mean he has perfected the qb position. His feet are are all over the place his throwing motion is horrendous, he doesn't have much touch to his passes. There's a reason why he looks spectacular on one post, then there's the ball in the dirt on the next play. You just can't use the third pick on a guy just based on his physical attributes

Sure you can, especially when he's actually got top 5 talent. After the trade it's harder to justify, but that's not his fault.

Once you've seen something you know you can work with, you can talk yourself into anything.

Back the kid, back the coaches.

If the kid will work hard enough, and your coaches are good enough, why wouldn't he reach his potential?

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
He's just so raw and inaccurate. Needs a ton of work. Seems like a good guy, good leader smart and mature. Just a huge gamble.

He's actually not inaccurate at all and he's only raw in the sense that he hasn't played that many games (same as Mac Jones) and the competition he played wasn't nearly as good as the other prospects. 28 touchdowns to 0 interceptions in 2019 which is a college record.

I don't know why people think he needs a ton of work but Justin Fields or Mac Jones doesn't. Lance has played in a pro style system, he can look off safeties, he knows when to check it down, his footwork during play action and rolling out is fantastic, he can go through multiple reads, he's basically displayed the most ability to play within Kyle's system of any QB in the draft due to his school's scheme.

I'm not saying there is no risk and that he's better than Fields overall but just labeling him "raw" and "inaccurate" is just lazy scouting at this point.

Just because he ran a pro offense doesn't mean he has perfected the qb position. His feet are are all over the place his throwing motion is horrendous, he doesn't have much touch to his passes. There's a reason why he looks spectacular on one post, then there's the ball in the dirt on the next play. You just can't use the third pick on a guy just based on his physical attributes

If you think his feet are "all over the place" then what is Justin Fields and Zach Wilson? Lance feet are probably the best thing about him and by the look of it it sounds like you haven't actually watched any film to know either way.

His throwing motion is more than fine. From your post it sounds like you're describing Kaepernick.

67% completion percentage says differently. Josh Allen was what? 55% completion percentage coming out.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
He's just so raw and inaccurate. Needs a ton of work. Seems like a good guy, good leader smart and mature. Just a huge gamble.

He's actually not inaccurate at all and he's only raw in the sense that he hasn't played that many games (same as Mac Jones) and the competition he played wasn't nearly as good as the other prospects. 28 touchdowns to 0 interceptions in 2019 which is a college record.

I don't know why people think he needs a ton of work but Justin Fields or Mac Jones doesn't. Lance has played in a pro style system, he can look off safeties, he knows when to check it down, his footwork during play action and rolling out is fantastic, he can go through multiple reads, he's basically displayed the most ability to play within Kyle's system of any QB in the draft due to his school's scheme.

I'm not saying there is no risk and that he's better than Fields overall but just labeling him "raw" and "inaccurate" is just lazy scouting at this point.

Just because he ran a pro offense doesn't mean he has perfected the qb position. His feet are are all over the place his throwing motion is horrendous, he doesn't have much touch to his passes. There's a reason why he looks spectacular on one post, then there's the ball in the dirt on the next play. You just can't use the third pick on a guy just based on his physical attributes

Sure you can, especially when he's actually got top 5 talent. After the trade it's harder to justify, but that's not his fault.

Once you've seen something you know you can work with, you can talk yourself into anything.

Back the kid, back the coaches.

If the kid will work hard enough, and your coaches are good enough, why wouldn't he reach his potential?

The biggest reason he might not is that becoming a better PASSER doesn't happen much. He is not a bad one, but despite his rocket launcher, he's not a great one either.

There some things few QBs get better at. Accuracy is one. Vision is another.

But the positive is that he'd get time to work on mechanics and all that. Aaron Rodgers completely changed his mechanics, so it's not impossible.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by ComeOnDeberg:
From Kurt Warner:

"He's got great athleticism, can do some great things with his legs, he's got the big arm and the ability to make every throw," NFL Network analyst Kurt Warner told The Post. "Those are things to me that you know.

"When I watched the tape, I think there's a lot of inconsistencies in his game, from a technique standpoint, from a decision-making standpoint, and so there's a lot of up and down with him. And so for me, I'm always leery of guys that are wildly inconsistent in those areas — missed throws that they're supposed to make, can make a great read one time and then the next time comes back and you just shake your head going, 'OK, no idea what they're looking at or why they would make that decision in another situation.'

"So, although there's huge upside physically, to me there's a lot of questions."

From Matt Miller:

Mitchell Trubisky started 13 games at North Carolina. Mark Sanchez started 16 games at USC. Kyler Murray started 17 games at Texas A&M and Oklahoma. Dwayne Haskins started 14 games at Ohio State.

"There's not a great track record of quarterbacks drafted in the first round with under 20 starts," ESPN NFL draft analyst Matt Miller told The Post. "So you worry about that a little bit. But on the other side of that, he's playing in an offense that's very pro-style at North Dakota State. They're running play-action. He's asked to do a lot at the line of scrimmage. So you're trying to really justify the 17 starts at a low-level competition as well. It's not like 17 starts at Alabama like Mac Jones has.

https://nypost.com/2021/04/12/quarterback-trey-lance-is-mystery-man-of-2021-nfl-draft/

How can Miller say what he did about Lance, and then say "It's not like 17 starts at Alabama"? It's still college, if you ding Lance for it you have to ding Mac.

No, because McCorkle has way more experience actually passing the ball.

That's a cop out, they've done an install for a game and prepared for certain looks, the number of actual throws really doesn't matter.

You could argue that the fact the majority of Lance's came 18 months ago matter, but college is really just there to allow you evaluate these kids as prospects.

Once you step into an NFL building it's a blank slate, the game is just different.

PFF Pros and Cons

4. TREY LANCE, NORTH DAKOTA STATE Biggest pro: Physical tools Lance boasts a cannon for an arm in addition to an ability to carve defenses up on the ground — the modern-day NFL's dream traits at the quarterback position. He can sling it to all levels of the field with ease and is a monster in the designed run game. We saw it in his showcase game this past fall as well as throughout his 2019 campaign.

Lance found the endzone for 10-plus yard touchdown runs on 10 occasions in his time starting at NDSU, which is double that of any quarterback on this list despite him playing just one game in 2020. Lance also averaged an impressive 13.4 yards per designed run. Obviously, the level of competition has a lot to do with that, but it goes to show what he can accomplish on the ground with his athleticism.

Biggest con: Accuracy Some quarterbacks on this list have only minor or moderate weaknesses, but this is a massive concern for Lance. It isn't like Trevor Lawrence, who has flashed bouts of inaccuracy every once in a while; Lance has consistently been inaccurate.

Over the past two seasons, he ranks dead last in percentage of accurate throws beyond the line of scrimmage (44.1%) among the quarterbacks on this list. Not only is that the lowest mark, but it's the worst by a country mile — 7.5 percentage points. Comparing that to all first-round quarterbacks since 2017, it'd still rank last by a comfortable margin. And Lance did this by throwing to a tight or closing window at the lowest rate among that group.

Accuracy is king, and Lance is going to need to have an anomalous turnaround, akin to that of Josh Allen this past season, to overcome this flaw.

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2021-nfl-draft-biggest-pro-con-top-qb-prospects

The Trubisky Project Part II

Originally posted by 9moon:
The Trubisky Project Part II

He's definitely a project at this point.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by ComeOnDeberg:
From Kurt Warner:

"He's got great athleticism, can do some great things with his legs, he's got the big arm and the ability to make every throw," NFL Network analyst Kurt Warner told The Post. "Those are things to me that you know.

"When I watched the tape, I think there's a lot of inconsistencies in his game, from a technique standpoint, from a decision-making standpoint, and so there's a lot of up and down with him. And so for me, I'm always leery of guys that are wildly inconsistent in those areas — missed throws that they're supposed to make, can make a great read one time and then the next time comes back and you just shake your head going, 'OK, no idea what they're looking at or why they would make that decision in another situation.'

"So, although there's huge upside physically, to me there's a lot of questions."

From Matt Miller:

Mitchell Trubisky started 13 games at North Carolina. Mark Sanchez started 16 games at USC. Kyler Murray started 17 games at Texas A&M and Oklahoma. Dwayne Haskins started 14 games at Ohio State.

"There's not a great track record of quarterbacks drafted in the first round with under 20 starts," ESPN NFL draft analyst Matt Miller told The Post. "So you worry about that a little bit. But on the other side of that, he's playing in an offense that's very pro-style at North Dakota State. They're running play-action. He's asked to do a lot at the line of scrimmage. So you're trying to really justify the 17 starts at a low-level competition as well. It's not like 17 starts at Alabama like Mac Jones has.

https://nypost.com/2021/04/12/quarterback-trey-lance-is-mystery-man-of-2021-nfl-draft/

How can Miller say what he did about Lance, and then say "It's not like 17 starts at Alabama"? It's still college, if you ding Lance for it you have to ding Mac.

No, because McCorkle has way more experience actually passing the ball.

That's a cop out, they've done an install for a game and prepared for certain looks, the number of actual throws really doesn't matter.

You could argue that the fact the majority of Lance's came 18 months ago matter, but college is really just there to allow you evaluate these kids as prospects.

Once you step into an NFL building it's a blank slate, the game is just different.

The number of throws absolutely matter, because each additional throw is one more chance to embed kinetic memory on how defenses move (from first person perspective), how spaces open and close, how the field looks from that portion of the field as you account for the movement college level athletes, how passing lanes open and close, and how that changes the timing or angle of some passes, and on and on.

It's patently ludicrous to not consider more throws to be more experience.

I'm starting to like Lance over Fields. I'd still take Fields but Lance can drop some beautiful dimes deep and has a lot of room to grow. I sense Fields has nearly reach his potential as a passer already

Originally posted by Since07:
I'm starting to like Lance over Fields. I'd still take Fields but Lance can drop some beautiful dimes deep and has a lot of room to grow. I sense Fields has nearly reach his potential as a passer already

Based on what?

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Since07:
I'm starting to like Lance over Fields. I'd still take Fields but Lance can drop some beautiful dimes deep and has a lot of room to grow. I sense Fields has nearly reach his potential as a passer already

Based on what?

He calculates his accuracy with good anticipation but doesn't have that natural fast trigger accuracy I see in Zach Wilson and a little in Mac Jones.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
The number of throws absolutely matter, because each additional throw is one more chance to embed kinetic memory on how defenses move (from first person perspective), how spaces open and close, how the field looks from that portion of the field as you account for the movement college level athletes, how passing lanes open and close, and how that changes the timing or angle of some passes, and on and on.

It's patently ludicrous to not consider more throws to be more experience.

I'm not saying more throws doesn't equal more experience, I'm saying that extra experience in college means very little.

You might have seen college windows opening and closing, or seen DB's rotate and leave space.

Then you get in the league and have guys like Richard Sherman and Marcus Peters abandoning their assignments to break on a ball because they've read the route combination.

Or safeties like Byrd and Simmons who will move to one hash deliberately to bait you into a throw.

Now if he'd have said that Mac's extra years in college practicing and preparing mattered, I'd be fine with it, but 17 college starts is 17 college starts.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
He's just so raw and inaccurate. Needs a ton of work. Seems like a good guy, good leader smart and mature. Just a huge gamble.

He's actually not inaccurate at all and he's only raw in the sense that he hasn't played that many games (same as Mac Jones) and the competition he played wasn't nearly as good as the other prospects. 28 touchdowns to 0 interceptions in 2019 which is a college record.

I don't know why people think he needs a ton of work but Justin Fields or Mac Jones doesn't. Lance has played in a pro style system, he can look off safeties, he knows when to check it down, his footwork during play action and rolling out is fantastic, he can go through multiple reads, he's basically displayed the most ability to play within Kyle's system of any QB in the draft due to his school's scheme.

I'm not saying there is no risk and that he's better than Fields overall but just labeling him "raw" and "inaccurate" is just lazy scouting at this point.

Just because he ran a pro offense doesn't mean he has perfected the qb position. His feet are are all over the place his throwing motion is horrendous, he doesn't have much touch to his passes. There's a reason why he looks spectacular on one post, then there's the ball in the dirt on the next play. You just can't use the third pick on a guy just based on his physical attributes

Sure you can, especially when he's actually got top 5 talent. After the trade it's harder to justify, but that's not his fault.

Once you've seen something you know you can work with, you can talk yourself into anything.

Back the kid, back the coaches.

If the kid will work hard enough, and your coaches are good enough, why wouldn't he reach his potential?

The biggest reason he might not is that becoming a better PASSER doesn't happen much. He is not a bad one, but despite his rocket launcher, he's not a great one either.

There some things few QBs get better at. Accuracy is one. Vision is another.

But the positive is that he'd get time to work on mechanics and all that. Aaron Rodgers completely changed his mechanics, so it's not impossible.

I get what you're saying, and I somewhat agree, but there's a difference between a 23 year old with all that muscle memory in the bank, and judging a 19 year old kid with little professional coaching.

He's had a year working on his mechanics and has clearly improved, and has more room to grow.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Drop your honest opinion on potential #49ers draft pick Trey Lance 🤔⬇️ #FTTB | #Niners
🎥: @brgridiron pic.twitter.com/PkI3ul8xQ3

— OurSF49ers (@OurSf49ers_) April 12, 2021

This is a thing of beauty, completely stopping his momentum, perfect base and quick unload.

The kid has so much potential

It's amazing to see the progress in his mechanics over the past 6 months.

Lance or Fields

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
He's just so raw and inaccurate. Needs a ton of work. Seems like a good guy, good leader smart and mature. Just a huge gamble.

He's actually not inaccurate at all and he's only raw in the sense that he hasn't played that many games (same as Mac Jones) and the competition he played wasn't nearly as good as the other prospects. 28 touchdowns to 0 interceptions in 2019 which is a college record.

I don't know why people think he needs a ton of work but Justin Fields or Mac Jones doesn't. Lance has played in a pro style system, he can look off safeties, he knows when to check it down, his footwork during play action and rolling out is fantastic, he can go through multiple reads, he's basically displayed the most ability to play within Kyle's system of any QB in the draft due to his school's scheme.

I'm not saying there is no risk and that he's better than Fields overall but just labeling him "raw" and "inaccurate" is just lazy scouting at this point.

Just because he ran a pro offense doesn't mean he has perfected the qb position. His feet are are all over the place his throwing motion is horrendous, he doesn't have much touch to his passes. There's a reason why he looks spectacular on one post, then there's the ball in the dirt on the next play. You just can't use the third pick on a guy just based on his physical attributes

Sure you can, especially when he's actually got top 5 talent. After the trade it's harder to justify, but that's not his fault.

Once you've seen something you know you can work with, you can talk yourself into anything.

Back the kid, back the coaches.

If the kid will work hard enough, and your coaches are good enough, why wouldn't he reach his potential?

What I struggle with is how you take Lance over Fields. If his arm is bigger in any way it's minor and his touch is way worse than Justin's. His accuracy isn't as good as Justin's.

Are his legs any better than Fields'? I dunno about that.

Basically Fields and Lance ceiling is very similar but the floors are quite a good distance apart.

Lance ran a pro style offense more and is a year younger. Is that enough to make him a better prospect over a more accurate and proven player like Fields? Certainly not in my book but I'm not important.