Trey Lance QB NDSU

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Why does it have to be a debate on "mobile" QB vs "non mobile" QBs? There's more than that, no? I don't even know what constitutes as "mobile" for some posters?

Because those are the only ones ever considered to have upside

What do you consider "mobile" that's the question. Upside is more than mobility IMO

Eh! It appears this conversation isn't worth continuing.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
What do you consider "mobile" that's the question. Upside is more than mobility IMO

Two kinds of mobility for a QB. One is the Jackson/Murray,Wilson type where you run around and pick up first downs. The other is just being able to move enough to avoid the rush. A simple side step or spin away is often enough to buy time.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

What do you consider "mobile" that's the question. Upside is more than mobility IMO

Two kinds of mobility for a QB. One is the Jackson/Murray,Wilson type where you run around and pick up first downs. The other is just being able to move enough to avoid the rush. A simple side step or spin away is often enough to buy time.

Then there's mobility within the pocket which is most important to me. You can buy yourself time by knowing how to manipulate between the tackles and reset your feet.

Originally posted by krizay:
Eh! It appears this conversation isn't worth continuing.

lol well okay then.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Two kinds of mobility for a QB. One is the Jackson/Murray,Wilson type where you run around and pick up first downs. The other is just being able to move enough to avoid the rush. A simple side step or spin away is often enough to buy time.

Originally posted by DaBeegDeek:
Then there's mobility within the pocket which is most important to me. You can buy yourself time by knowing how to manipulate between the tackles and reset your feet.

For me there's QBs that are one read and go "mobile" QBs. I'm not into that (Kap/Jackson)...then there are other QBs that can extend plays inside/outside of the pocket with the idea of throwing first. That's what I want. You don't have to be some elite athlete to be "mobile" You can't be a statue back there either.

I have no problem if a QB's mobility HAS to be accounted for though. Steve young talks about it and how the league has changed...there's free yards for QBs on the ground, multiple 1st downs are created just by doing that. Example: I think a guy like Tannehill is a mobile QB.

I also think a guy like Jones has good feet inside the pocket, something Jimmy G doesn't have. He's got good pocket presence and a decent internal clock. It does help when you have the top OL in the nation and some of the most elite athletes all around you. That's not hating, it's just the plain old truth. The OL will have to be rebuilt with a prospect like Jones. His "lack" of athletic ability only get's worse in the NFL. If Kyle wants him I'm all for it. I do think there are guys that have higher upsides because of arm talent and plain old athletic ability.

Originally posted by Misfit_Niner540:

Lance=Kaepernick....
Athletically gifted phenom with a gazelle like stride.
From a smaller program, thus facing less than elite opposition.
Anxious in the pocket, suspect field awareness, stares down receivers (BADLY!this one is enough for me to just say no) , accuracy is all over the place, one read and go.... the list goes on.

This is a hard no in my eyes. With such dire need for interior lineman and secondary help I can't see ShanaLynch jumping on this kid. Let another team suffer the 3 year setback for an FCS athlete. Hell, we could get a similar prospect on day 2 or 3 in Jamie Newman.
This is Lynch's GM career if he drafts Lance

KAP DISCLAIMER! This comment has ZERO to do with anything other than football.

I don't see kap at all. Kap had a cannon, but could only throw one type of pass, a dart, from one arm slot. For as little as he has played, I see his pocket presence as a positive, not a negative. I don't see pocket anxiety, poor ball placement, or one read stare downs near to the extent that your post alludes.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Two kinds of mobility for a QB. One is the Jackson/Murray,Wilson type where you run around and pick up first downs. The other is just being able to move enough to avoid the rush. A simple side step or spin away is often enough to buy time.

Originally posted by DaBeegDeek:
Then there's mobility within the pocket which is most important to me. You can buy yourself time by knowing how to manipulate between the tackles and reset your feet.

For me there's QBs that are one read and go "mobile" QBs. I'm not into that (Kap/Jackson)...then there are other QBs that can extend plays inside/outside of the pocket with the idea of throwing first. That's what I want. You don't have to be some elite athlete to be "mobile" You can't be a statue back there either.

I have no problem if a QB's mobility HAS to be accounted for though. Steve young talks about it and how the league has changed...there's free yards for QBs on the ground, multiple 1st downs are created just by doing that. Example: I think a guy like Tannehill is a mobile QB.

I also think a guy like Jones has good feet inside the pocket, something Jimmy G doesn't have. He's got good pocket presence and a decent internal clock. It does help when you have the top OL in the nation and some of the most elite athletes all around you. That's not hating, it's just the plain old truth. The OL will have to be rebuilt with a prospect like Jones. His "lack" of athletic ability only get's worse in the NFL. If Kyle wants him I'm all for it. I do think there are guys that have higher upsides because of arm talent and plain old athletic ability.

Yesterday's game against the Seahawks was a good example of a QB that moves outside the pocket and makes plays. Wilson didn't have a good day overall but on 2 plays he was able to get outside the rush and hit an open receiver for a TD. Some of those types are actually better when they're throwing on the move than when stationary.

Being able to avoid the rush while still in the pocket with a side step or a simple move up is a feel that some QBs seem to have naturally. Brady does it really well and so does Brees. Neither one of those guys could beat an 8th grade kid in the 40 but they each survived a long time by being smart and knowing where the rush is coming from.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Yesterday's game against the Seahawks was a good example of a QB that moves outside the pocket and makes plays. Wilson didn't have a good day overall but on 2 plays he was able to get outside the rush and hit an open receiver for a TD. Some of those types are actually better when they're throwing on the move than when stationary.

Being able to avoid the rush while still in the pocket with a side step or a simple move up is a feel that some QBs seem to have naturally. Brady does it really well and so does Brees. Neither one of those guys could beat an 8th grade kid in the 40 but they each survived a long time by being smart and knowing where the rush is coming from.

Absolutely that's part of what I'm talking about...being able to actually see pressure and adapt, whether it's sidestepping in the pocket or moving around anywhere outside of the pocket. I want teams to actually have to prepare for some sort of ability for the QB to move. It's not just pin your ears back and go after the QB. That's another part of the PP issues from this yr, they just attacked all game knowing our QB was just gonna take it ...not even try to move around.

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by Misfit_Niner540:

Lance=Kaepernick....
Athletically gifted phenom with a gazelle like stride.
From a smaller program, thus facing less than elite opposition.
Anxious in the pocket, suspect field awareness, stares down receivers (BADLY!this one is enough for me to just say no) , accuracy is all over the place, one read and go.... the list goes on.

This is a hard no in my eyes. With such dire need for interior lineman and secondary help I can't see ShanaLynch jumping on this kid. Let another team suffer the 3 year setback for an FCS athlete. Hell, we could get a similar prospect on day 2 or 3 in Jamie Newman.
This is Lynch's GM career if he drafts Lance

KAP DISCLAIMER! This comment has ZERO to do with anything other than football.

I don't see kap at all. Kap had a cannon, but could only throw one type of pass, a dart, from one arm slot. For as little as he has played, I see his pocket presence as a positive, not a negative. I don't see pocket anxiety, poor ball placement, or one read stare downs near to the extent that your post alludes.

https://youtu.be/GXEWg4O2OZg

Okay, let's pretend for a second that Trey Lance is poised in the pocket and hits the bullseye more times than not.
Watch this "career" highlight film. Keep in mind it's a highlight spot, so the editor is trying to make the QB look good.
4 biggest things to notice.
~how often we hear, "wide open"
~the teams he's going against
~virtually zero intermediate throws between 10-30 yards
~receiver stare downs and there's multiple examples of that here.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Yesterday's game against the Seahawks was a good example of a QB that moves outside the pocket and makes plays. Wilson didn't have a good day overall but on 2 plays he was able to get outside the rush and hit an open receiver for a TD. Some of those types are actually better when they're throwing on the move than when stationary.

Being able to avoid the rush while still in the pocket with a side step or a simple move up is a feel that some QBs seem to have naturally. Brady does it really well and so does Brees. Neither one of those guys could beat an 8th grade kid in the 40 but they each survived a long time by being smart and knowing where the rush is coming from.

Absolutely that's part of what I'm talking about...being able to actually see pressure and adapt, whether it's sidestepping in the pocket or moving around anywhere outside of the pocket. I want teams to actually have to prepare for some sort of ability for the QB to move. It's not just pin your ears back and go after the QB. That's another part of the PP issues from this yr, they just attacked all game knowing our QB was just gonna take it ...not even try to move around.

One other thing about mobility that I hear Cosell bring up. He has stated several times that in his mind, what sets Mahomes and Wilson apart is their ability to move around and avoid the rush while still keeping the entire field in focus enabling them to spot the open guy downfield. Few players can do that and still be aware of where the pass rusher is. It's a dimension that truly helps make a QB elite since most of them have the ability to make plays when their pass protection is working. When it breaks down is when the really great ones rise to the top.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Yesterday's game against the Seahawks was a good example of a QB that moves outside the pocket and makes plays. Wilson didn't have a good day overall but on 2 plays he was able to get outside the rush and hit an open receiver for a TD. Some of those types are actually better when they're throwing on the move than when stationary.

Being able to avoid the rush while still in the pocket with a side step or a simple move up is a feel that some QBs seem to have naturally. Brady does it really well and so does Brees. Neither one of those guys could beat an 8th grade kid in the 40 but they each survived a long time by being smart and knowing where the rush is coming from.

Absolutely that's part of what I'm talking about...being able to actually see pressure and adapt, whether it's sidestepping in the pocket or moving around anywhere outside of the pocket. I want teams to actually have to prepare for some sort of ability for the QB to move. It's not just pin your ears back and go after the QB. That's another part of the PP issues from this yr, they just attacked all game knowing our QB was just gonna take it ...not even try to move around.

One other thing about mobility that I hear Cosell bring up. He has stated several times that in his mind, what sets Mahomes and Wilson apart is their ability to move around and avoid the rush while still keeping the entire field in focus enabling them to spot the open guy downfield. Few players can do that and still be aware of where the pass rusher is. It's a dimension that truly helps make a QB elite since most of them have the ability to make plays when their pass protection is working. When it breaks down is when the really great ones rise to the top.

It takes a certain confidence and courage to effectively do that. And I agree, only the elite have that ability. Watson, Rodgers, Wilson and Mahomes can all run around in the backfield, elude rushers and make big throws downfield. Not so much Rodgers anymore, but in his prime he was very good at that.

Originally posted by Misfit_Niner540:
https://youtu.be/GXEWg4O2OZg

Okay, let's pretend for a second that Trey Lance is poised in the pocket and hits the bullseye more times than not.
Watch this "career" highlight film. Keep in mind it's a highlight spot, so the editor is trying to make the QB look good.
4 biggest things to notice.
~how often we hear, "wide open"
~the teams he's going against
~virtually zero intermediate throws between 10-30 yards
~receiver stare downs and there's multiple examples of that here.

I´ve been saying for months that Lance reminds me Kaepernick a lot in a bad way.

You´re not alone buddy

Originally posted by Monsterniner:

Originally posted by Misfit_Niner540:

https://youtu.be/GXEWg4O2OZg

Okay, let's pretend for a second that Trey Lance is poised in the pocket and hits the bullseye more times than not.
Watch this "career" highlight film. Keep in mind it's a highlight spot, so the editor is trying to make the QB look good.
4 biggest things to notice.
~how often we hear, "wide open"
~the teams he's going against
~virtually zero intermediate throws between 10-30 yards
~receiver stare downs and there's multiple examples of that here.

I´ve been saying for months that Lance reminds me Kaepernick a lot in a bad way.

You´re not alone buddy

Originally posted by Misfit_Niner540:

https://youtu.be/GXEWg4O2OZg

Okay, let's pretend for a second that Trey Lance is poised in the pocket and hits the bullseye more times than not.
Watch this "career" highlight film. Keep in mind it's a highlight spot, so the editor is trying to make the QB look good.
4 biggest things to notice.
~how often we hear, "wide open"
~the teams he's going against
~virtually zero intermediate throws between 10-30 yards
~receiver stare downs and there's multiple examples of that here.

I am assuming (hoping) you didn't make your determination off of this video, but here we go.

1. Highlight videos are not meant to show what a players does well or poor, they are meant to show big plays. There is a reason we are only shown long runs and deep balls, and it's not because those are the only two plays he makes.

2. On those long throws, he is dropping it in the bucket. Kaepernick wishes he could throw consistently with touch.

3. They run mirror concepts and primarily ask him to make half field reads. From these clips, you have no idea what he is reading. Is it possible that some of these staredowns are predetermined reads based on what the defense is giving him presnap, and he is simply waiting for his guy to innevitably come open? You also cant pretend to be able to see what his eyes are doing. There is one play where he reads the left side of the field, but scrambles when nothing is there and finds a guy on the right side, which was obviously not a part of his progressions.

4. I don't see where he is antsy in the pocket in this video. There is, however, evidence in support of good feet and lower body mechanics / ability to reset his base.

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by Misfit_Niner540:

https://youtu.be/GXEWg4O2OZg

Okay, let's pretend for a second that Trey Lance is poised in the pocket and hits the bullseye more times than not.
Watch this "career" highlight film. Keep in mind it's a highlight spot, so the editor is trying to make the QB look good.
4 biggest things to notice.
~how often we hear, "wide open"
~the teams he's going against
~virtually zero intermediate throws between 10-30 yards
~receiver stare downs and there's multiple examples of that here.

I am assuming (hoping) you didn't make your determination off of this video, but here we go.

1. Highlight videos are not meant to show what a players does well or poor, they are meant to show big plays. There is a reason we are only shown long runs and deep balls, and it's not because those are the only two plays he makes.

2. On those long throws, he is dropping it in the bucket. Kaepernick wishes he could throw consistently with touch.

3. They run mirror concepts and primarily ask him to make half field reads. From these clips, you have no idea what he is reading. Is it possible that some of these staredowns are predetermined reads based on what the defense is giving him presnap, and he is simply waiting for his guy to innevitably come open? You also cant pretend to be able to see what his eyes are doing. There is one play where he reads the left side of the field, but scrambles when nothing is there and finds a guy on the right side, which was obviously not a part of his progressions.

4. I don't see where he is antsy in the pocket in this video. There is, however, evidence in support of good feet and lower body mechanics / ability to reset his base.

You have got to be kidding me! First off, way to retract and recant impressive. Secondly, I can't go any further with this discussion if you truly believe everything you say.
You think it's realistic to diagnose an NFL defense presnap, decipher whose dropping, whose coming and where from. Then stare down receivers waiting for them to "inevitably" get open??
You gotta realize, as i pointed out already, this is the NFL. Not the FCS.... the speed of pro defenders alone is gonna have this dudes head spinning. If he's not crushed by a f**king edge rusher first, safeties are gonna watch his eyes and break on passes from 10 plus yards away. Its gonna be picks a plenty.

Don't take my word for it though, it's obvious you're a fan. Let's just wait and see how much "dropping it in the bucket" he's doing come the next year or 2.