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Originally posted by AsianJeff:
Exactly. That's what I'm saying. His "version 1" mocks are alwaysbecause he tries way too hard to come from left field in comparison to other mocks that have an early consistent idea of where some players may go based on rankings and team needs.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by AsianJeff:
Exactly. That's what I'm saying. His "version 1" mocks are always
I mean a lot of the NFL.com mocks are doing their own thing.
Brooks has us taken Horn
DJ has is taken Pitts
Lance has us taken Lance
Every TDN mock have us taken someone different (move up even) every week
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by AsianJeff:
Exactly. That's what I'm saying. His "version 1" mocks are always
I mean a lot of the NFL.com mocks are doing their own thing.
Brooks has us taken Horn
DJ has is taken Pitts
Lance has us taken Lance
Every TDN mock have us taken someone different (move up even) every week
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by AsianJeff:
Exactly. That's what I'm saying. His "version 1" mocks are always
I mean a lot of the NFL.com mocks are doing their own thing.
Brooks has us taken Horn
DJ has is taken Pitts
Lance has us taken Lance
Every TDN mock have us taken someone different (move up even) every week
TDN is the only good one let's be real. I love cornerbacks and it's my favorite position to watch but I've accepted that this coaching staffs philosophy is to rush the passer to make the CBs rather than cover the receivers to make the pass rush.
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
According to Jack Hammer, Lance has trouble throwing to a wr when there's someone in his line of sight between him and that WR. He also appears to decide where he's going with the ball presnap and then just tries to take off if it's not there.
He also has a stiff lower body when throwing, leading to erratic deep accuracy.
The little I've watched of him suggests Mr Hammer is right.
No way do I pick a mobile Jimmy at 12.
Dude f**k Jack Hammer lol that guy is a trash....sorry if that's you but still, there's nothing he says that leads me to believe he's a knowledgeable football mind.
His footwork is not even remotely close to Jimmy's. Ever think that "appearing" to go with the ball pre-snap is the play call? People were saying the same s**t about Herbert last yr. Mahomes half reads at Texas Tech as well....Scheme that they play in doesn't always define who they are.
nothing stiff about his throwing motion IMO
Quick sneak peek into a Quarterback Takeover draft prep session with Trey Lance. Working through some different drops and footwork from under center.@Quincy_Avery @QbTakeover pic.twitter.com/zM9NLXINE0
— Sean McEvoy (@QBCoachMcEvoy) November 18, 2020
calls all the protections
Trey Lance is so fun to watch.
— John Chapman (@JL_Chapman) January 23, 2021
He is responsible for calling all protections at the line. pic.twitter.com/8X849ghihH
Here's you ball placement
This is a ridiculous throw in terms of accuracy and ball placement! Far hash to the corner pylon, in the bucket!
— Damian Parson 🏈 (@DP_NFL) December 3, 2020
Don't forget how talented Trey Lance is guys!
pic.twitter.com/VQNXtvzecJ
not his first read
Boy, I can't help but love Trey Lance's physical tools. He's got an arm on him. Really makes some incredible tight window throws.
— Nick Farabaugh (@FarabaughFB) June 23, 2020
What an absolute dime this throw is man. This is an NFL level throw.
pic.twitter.com/ggz8fbdXWF
It's not me, and at this point I haven't done my QB binge watching yet, but so far I have not been particularly impressed with Lance.
For one, he's not particularly consistent with his accuracy. Jimmy can drop the occasional dime too. But how often is he off the mark? Two, he DOES seem to do the "one-read" thing way too much.
JTO wasn't too impressed with him either (pointed out some good things, but also inconsistent accuracy and bad field vision), and I'd take his analysis over anyone's.
But ultimately, we're not discussing if he might become a good QB some day. We're discussing if he's better than Fields as a prospect. Which to me is laughable.
Originally posted by Cisco0623:
In his limited play he ran an offense that is in the spirit of things Kyle does apparently so I think that's why the pundits love this idea. He def has physical talent and seems to have decent mechanics, but there isn't much to go on.
People are all over the place with Lance and Fields. I agree Fields is far more developed imo and should go before Lance. Lance feels like a project. Someone mentioned Kaep and I do see that resemblance lol
Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Originally posted by Cisco0623:
In his limited play he ran an offense that is in the spirit of things Kyle does apparently so I think that's why the pundits love this idea. He def has physical talent and seems to have decent mechanics, but there isn't much to go on.
People are all over the place with Lance and Fields. I agree Fields is far more developed imo and should go before Lance. Lance feels like a project. Someone mentioned Kaep and I do see that resemblance lol
Good post except for the Kap mention, they're a similar shade of black and that's about it. The footwork and touch of Lance has never been sniffed by Kap, who only had a fastball.
They're also accurate to different levels of the field, Kap excelled mid range and struggled a bit deep, Lance is the other way around.
They're also different as runners, granted both are athletic, but Kap is a long striding run past or round you guy, whereas Lance will run over or juke you.
Dak is the better comp for me, but Lance is pretty unique.
Originally posted by richterkbelmont:
Only scenario where Lance would be a good pick:
- He is there at #12, which means no trade ups
- Jimmy G is still on the team after a restructure. You don't throw Lance day 1 out there. It'd make Jimmy cap hit 14m but it'd guarantee him more money.
- Trent Williams is signed, which means you are not looking for Slater.
- Alex Mack was signed as a bridge C and your second round pick would eventually be Creed or any of the other Centers.
- Verrett and K'waun are signed, so you don't need #12 on Farley or Surtain.
Originally posted by Heroism:
LOL I was watching Lance's tape with my brother, and he said Trey Lance reminds him of Nate Davis.
Nate Davis had the most legendary preseason throw of all time
Originally posted by Heroism:
LOL I was watching Lance's tape with my brother, and he said Trey Lance reminds him of Nate Davis.
Nate Davis had the most legendary preseason throw of all time
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Everyone had to deal with that, including Fields.
And no, I saw the Jack Hammer article YESTERDAY. I watched the horrid game Lance had this year months ago. Honestly, I'm a bit insulted that you are claiming that I form my opinions based on what someone else says (If that was the case, I wouldn't have been one of the minority who were harping on Mahomes in 2017).
Fields last game was against Alabama, they didn't lose because Fields was inaccurate in a clean pocket. They lost because it was Alabama. Most of his inaccurate passes were due to insane pressure, but even most of those were closer to the target than what I saw in Lance's last game. He still managed to hit some dimes while navigating the quagmire of a pocket Ohio State had most of that game.
Fields also has way more experience, against way better competition, and is more accurate on a consistent basis. I just can't see it. I can't see how anyone would pass on Fields for Lance.
Dude you're the one that brought up Jack hammer as some meaningful evaluation and then said all you've watched is one literally meaningless game. Win/lose that game had no impact for them. It was a glorified practice.
that's also not meant to insult you at all. You brought it up not me.
Fields didn't play amazing vs Bama. He played awful vs northwestern and subpar vs Indiana. He's got his stinker games just like every QB in this draft.
like I said I value traits, upside, and overall body of work.
No hate my man
Originally posted by richterkbelmont:
Only scenario where Lance would be a good pick:
- He is there at #12, which means no trade ups
- Jimmy G is still on the team after a restructure. You don't throw Lance day 1 out there. It'd make Jimmy cap hit 14m but it'd guarantee him more money.
- Trent Williams is signed, which means you are not looking for Slater.
- Alex Mack was signed as a bridge C and your second round pick would eventually be Creed or any of the other Centers.
- Verrett and K'waun are signed, so you don't need #12 on Farley or Surtain.
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Yes, I agree, "traits" is the most important thing. I'm not huge on "upside." To me that just means "physical talent," and quite frankly, if a QB doesn't show an elite arm, I'm swiping left. We're talking about a first round pick, after all. The rest, regarding mobility and all that, I'm more interested in functional mobility to buy time than the ability to juke people down the field. That's not to say I hold that against Lance.
But speaking of traits, that's why I like Fields better. The number one trait I look at, after swiping left on all the lesser arm strength guys, is accuracy. And it seems to me Fields wins here. More to watch, but it looks like Fields is in that top three tier of this draft in terms of accuracy and Lance is in the next. And I don't mean "the ability to throw amazing passes." I mean consistent accuracy. Jimmy can throw amazing passes, too. But he misses a lot of deep overs and things like that due to bad fundamentals (have NOT watched Lance in enough detail to see if he has something similar, despite what the article I cited claimed. I still have to verify that, which is why I said he CLAIMED it. But if it's true, that's a hard swipe left. Not many QBs fix their mechanical issues).
After that, traits for me, irrespective of the QB in question, go something like this (not necessarily in this order):
Showing no fear in the face of the pass rush
Quick release
Throwing accurately off platform
Anticipation
And then it goes to the "intangible" traits (which are really actually tangible), such as:
Using eyes to manipulate defenders
Pump faking
Most importantly: showing that he maintains mental control under chaos (this one is hard to quantify, but you know it when you see it; the subtle pump fake passed the line of scrimmage to gain a few more yards [Mahomes did this]; remembering where his guys are so that when he escapes he can get the ball to him while he's being devoured).
This right here is what set Mahomes apart for me in the spring of 2017. He had CONTROL, including during chaotic moments, and never forgot all the subtle ways to manipulate a defense. Lots of QBs have "control;" But very few of them also have Brett Favre's arm. But when a QB is able to remember everything he has at his disposal, even when the noose is closing in, and he has an elite arm, that's when you know you have a potentially great QB. This is also something I recently noticed watching Watson's college tape (I was so obsessed with Mahomes I didn't watch much of any QB in 2017). In particular, Watson seems extremely calm, as if all potential options are kind of floating in the aether around his head, ready to be picked and executed at a moment's notice. Other, lesser QBs seem to be reacting only on instinct, and don't appear to think in that cold, calculating manner when the ship is sinking.
I'm also sure everyone feels this way. Which then means that the secret is people not knowing when they see it.
Anyway, back to accuracy. Basically, clean pocket passing doesn't impress me at all, BUT if the pocket is clean and a guy is open down field, the QB prospect better hit that 19 times out of twenty. Otherwise, why are you wasting a first round pick? And that's why I'd take Fields over Lance. I'm not saying Lance doesn't have first round accuracy. I just don't think he has Field's accuracy, and he doesn't seem to have his reaction time. I don't mean with his legs. I mean see something change and throw it quickly where maybe he didn't think he was going to initially.
