Justin Fields QB - Ohio State

Originally posted by BSofSF:

Originally posted by boomer49er:
SIlly argument considering if you take what he said at face value, the only thing keeping him from being good at it is coaching.

What coach thinks he would rather have less talented players because he can't coach the better ones to play in his style?

The realistic ones.

Jones will be the pick, the better fit, and trading to pick 3 to get him was not necessary. They probably made this decision the same night they got drunk with Jed York and were celebrating the Juice re-signing. "I could win a Super Bowl with Mac Jones and we could resign Bosa and Warner," says Shanahan boldly in a moment of liquid courage. "He turns it over less, is more accurate than Jimmy and will cost a whole lot less." Lynch uncorks the Blue Agave tequila and pours three more shots for himself, Shanahan and York. "Then let's go get him!" he proclaims with the confidence of a man just inducted into the Hall of Fame. "What will it take?" "Whatever it takes, it takes" says Shanahan, pounding the table with his fist, searching for the worm at the bottom of the bottle. "You can't overpay to secure the QB position for the next decade."

Fast forward to Mac Jones second Pro Day ... Jones misses open receivers running 3/4 speed in shorts. "I guess you can. I guess you can overpay for a mid-first round prospect" Shanahan utters under his breath, stomach sinking. He takes another sip of his Starbucks coffee. "We should probably kick the tires at least in Columbus," he whispers to Lynch.

Stick to fan fiction. You're clearly better at it than draft evaluations. At least with the fan fiction you use your own material.

Originally posted by Heroism:
When I think about Justin Fields letting it rip into clearly defined Shanahan-designed throwing windows & matchups, it makes me tingle inside. And then the keeper element added to the wide zone runs, and the limitless goalline/redzone packages by maximizing the numbers game...

I dunno man. You think Justin can handle something so complex?

Originally posted by genus49:
Stick to fan fiction. You're clearly better at it than draft evaluations. At least with the fan fiction you use your own material.

Thanks Genius. Please tell us who you think they should pick. I want to rush out and bet the first one to buy the jersey. With your incisive one-liners, I can't see how you could be wrong.

Originally posted by genus49:
No offense man but it's very obvious you haven't watched the games in detail or even bothered to read up on the guy in this thread.

The so called issues have either been debunked completely or explained in terms of why his weaknesses were what they were and how they can be fixed with proper coaching including our very own HC.

The fact that people think Fields cannot handle a quick strike short/intermediate offense is hilarious. Dude is hitting the low% throws on the regular, puts up accuracy numbers top notch across the board and we think he can't do it in the NFL?

lazy.

No, sir. I watched every snap of the national championship game. I watched several analyst videos breaking down the good and bad of fields, showing the routes, the decisions, etc. I saw his poor decision making against Indiana when they blitzed him, switched coverages last minute confusing him, then watching him hold it for sacks or chuck up interceptions. I saw him under pressure against Alabama and fire hot shots off target to crossing routes like Kaepernick, and missing the wide open receiver on screens almost as well as Garoppolo. It's there. You just choose not to look at it and call everyone else a simple minded clone if they suggest that Fields is not the top prospect you say he is. A dude with that much physical talent, he should be the consensus No. 1 pick over Lawrence and Wilson, but he's not, because he DOES have issues on making quick, good decisions.

Originally posted by BSofSF:

Originally posted by genus49:
No offense man but it's very obvious you haven't watched the games in detail or even bothered to read up on the guy in this thread.

The so called issues have either been debunked completely or explained in terms of why his weaknesses were what they were and how they can be fixed with proper coaching including our very own HC.

The fact that people think Fields cannot handle a quick strike short/intermediate offense is hilarious. Dude is hitting the low% throws on the regular, puts up accuracy numbers top notch across the board and we think he can't do it in the NFL?

lazy.

No, sir. I watched every snap of the national championship game. I watched several analyst videos breaking down the good and bad of fields, showing the routes, the decisions, etc. I saw his poor decision making against Indiana when they blitzed him, switched coverages last minute confusing him, then watching him hold it for sacks or chuck up interceptions. I saw him under pressure against Alabama and fire hot shots off target to crossing routes like Kaepernick, and missing the wide open receiver on screens almost as well as Garoppolo. It's there. You just choose not to look at it and call everyone else a simple minded clone if they suggest that Fields is not the top prospect you say he is. A dude with that much physical talent, he should be the consensus No. 1 pick over Lawrence and Wilson, but he's not, because he DOES have issues on making quick, good decisions.

So you used the game where he was playing the best team in the country when he was hurt to be the focal point of your criticism supported by "draft people said the same"?

OSU had a ton of practices cancelled this year cuz of covid. Their offense is slow developing with a lot of option routes and deep hitters.

Bashing a guy for not being good vs the blitz when they can only practice so much and the offense takes time to open up the big plays they're looking for is super short sighted.

QBs need to be developed. Very few if any come into the league ready to roll. Russell Wilson was awful from the pocket for several years. The plan to stop Seattle on offense was to keep Wilson in the pocket and force him to beat you passing. Can't do that anymore.

Kyle Shanahan is a brilliant offensive mind. You think he can't coach a kid up? Patrick Mahomes said he didn't learn how to read the defense until mid 2019 season. Do I need to remind you what he did in 2018? He was MVP of the league.

You take players who are talented, can do things that cannot be coached as long as you think they have the ability to learn and develop. Everything about Fields says that he can. He's executed more pro level plays than guys being talked about being more pro ready than him. That includes Mac Jones who hasn't faced any adversity.

When Jones goes into the NFL even if it's on our roster he will not longer be on a team head and shoulders more talented than his competition.

im confident Fields can develop where he's better vs the blitz, especially with Shanahan and our talent around him. We have no way of knowing what happens to Jones if he faces adversity. He could rise up to the challenge but we simply don't know. He could completely fold. There have been many young talented players with perfect mechanics who forgot everything they were taught once they got hit enough times.

Originally posted by BSofSF:
No, sir. I watched every snap of the national championship game. I watched several analyst videos breaking down the good and bad of fields, showing the routes, the decisions, etc. I saw his poor decision making against Indiana when they blitzed him, switched coverages last minute confusing him, then watching him hold it for sacks or chuck up interceptions. I saw him under pressure against Alabama and fire hot shots off target to crossing routes like Kaepernick, and missing the wide open receiver on screens almost as well as Garoppolo. It's there. You just choose not to look at it and call everyone else a simple minded clone if they suggest that Fields is not the top prospect you say he is. A dude with that much physical talent, he should be the consensus No. 1 pick over Lawrence and Wilson, but he's not, because he DOES have issues on making quick, good decisions.

It looks like he has issues with making quick decisions. Now whether it's because i) he can't process quickly ii) he was coached to do so iii) he was arrogant in his arm strength will have to be determined.

He just seems like such a no-brainer compared to Lance and Jones.

1. Ridiculously accurate (strike off Lance)
2. Good athleticism (strike off Jones)
3. Pocket passer

The question is to what extent Shanahan's SF offense represents his ideal offense. If we look at his ATL offense, he was OK with having longer-developing routes (higher aDOT, higher TTT) in exchange for more sacks. Based on his words over the past season, I don't think he's wedded to the YAC game as much as he wanted to build around Jimmy G's skillset. If the Niners traded for Deshaun I'm pretty sure the gameplan would be different.

Originally posted by BSofSF:
No, sir. I watched every snap of the national championship game. I watched several analyst videos breaking down the good and bad of fields, showing the routes, the decisions, etc. I saw his poor decision making against Indiana when they blitzed him, switched coverages last minute confusing him, then watching him hold it for sacks or chuck up interceptions. I saw him under pressure against Alabama and fire hot shots off target to crossing routes like Kaepernick, and missing the wide open receiver on screens almost as well as Garoppolo. It's there. You just choose not to look at it and call everyone else a simple minded clone if they suggest that Fields is not the top prospect you say he is. A dude with that much physical talent, he should be the consensus No. 1 pick over Lawrence and Wilson, but he's not, because he DOES have issues on making quick, good decisions.

I like how you cherry pick moments and ignore the mountain of tape where he makes good quick decisions.

He needs consistency. Which is normal for a college QB with 1.5 years as a starter. Lawrence also shows plenty of tape where he holds onto the ball too long or makes poor decisions. Wilson shows even bigger issues on tape. Stares down his first receiver. Has poor footwork. Made a bunch of poor decisions.

There isnt a prospect in this class you can't say the same things about. But overall Fields was more accurate than the others against tougher defenses while under more pressure and having lower graded receivers.

As far as why he isn't going to be the first or 2nd QB taken teams make mistakes. Regularly. Teams decided that Sam Darnold was a better prospect than Josh Allen. That Trubisky was better than Mahomes and Watson. That Russell Wilson was a 3rd round player. They nit picked those guys to death just like you're doing.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by BSofSF:

Originally posted by genus49:
No offense man but it's very obvious you haven't watched the games in detail or even bothered to read up on the guy in this thread.

The so called issues have either been debunked completely or explained in terms of why his weaknesses were what they were and how they can be fixed with proper coaching including our very own HC.

The fact that people think Fields cannot handle a quick strike short/intermediate offense is hilarious. Dude is hitting the low% throws on the regular, puts up accuracy numbers top notch across the board and we think he can't do it in the NFL?

lazy.

No, sir. I watched every snap of the national championship game. I watched several analyst videos breaking down the good and bad of fields, showing the routes, the decisions, etc. I saw his poor decision making against Indiana when they blitzed him, switched coverages last minute confusing him, then watching him hold it for sacks or chuck up interceptions. I saw him under pressure against Alabama and fire hot shots off target to crossing routes like Kaepernick, and missing the wide open receiver on screens almost as well as Garoppolo. It's there. You just choose not to look at it and call everyone else a simple minded clone if they suggest that Fields is not the top prospect you say he is. A dude with that much physical talent, he should be the consensus No. 1 pick over Lawrence and Wilson, but he's not, because he DOES have issues on making quick, good decisions.

So you used the game where he was playing the best team in the country when he was hurt to be the focal point of your criticism supported by "draft people said the same"?

OSU had a ton of practices cancelled this year cuz of covid. Their offense is slow developing with a lot of option routes and deep hitters.

Bashing a guy for not being good vs the blitz when they can only practice so much and the offense takes time to open up the big plays they're looking for is super short sighted.

QBs need to be developed. Very few if any come into the league ready to roll. Russell Wilson was awful from the pocket for several years. The plan to stop Seattle on offense was to keep Wilson in the pocket and force him to beat you passing. Can't do that anymore.

Kyle Shanahan is a brilliant offensive mind. You think he can't coach a kid up? Patrick Mahomes said he didn't learn how to read the defense until mid 2019 season. Do I need to remind you what he did in 2018? He was MVP of the league.

You take players who are talented, can do things that cannot be coached as long as you think they have the ability to learn and develop. Everything about Fields says that he can. He's executed more pro level plays than guys being talked about being more pro ready than him. That includes Mac Jones who hasn't faced any adversity.

When Jones goes into the NFL even if it's on our roster he will not longer be on a team head and shoulders more talented than his competition.

im confident Fields can develop where he's better vs the blitz, especially with Shanahan and our talent around him. We have no way of knowing what happens to Jones if he faces adversity. He could rise up to the challenge but we simply don't know. He could completely fold. There have been many young talented players with perfect mechanics who forgot everything they were taught once they got hit enough times.

I like Fields as the pick but man the fields lovers are over the top. The guy is fast. He has a good arm. He's shown plenty of bad decision making and questionable deep ball accuracy to give you enough to worry about. There's a reason no pedigree Zack Wilson is going before him. He has major question marks. Still a top ten talent based on athleticism and arm but not without faults. JTO does some really good unbiased breakdowns of coaches film. There's plenty to like but a lot that will leave you scratching your head too. He does not get thru reads as cleanly as Mac does at this point. He misses open guys and doesn't pull the trigger. His deep ball left a lot to be desired, he missed on quite a few long ones.

Which way will Kyle go is anyone's guess but there's a reason people have Mac to sf at #3.

Here is every snap from Fields in three games this past season where he struggled. No filtering. No explanation. No diagrams. He makes a lot of good plays, and he runs effectively. He makes a lot of inaccurate throws and holds the ball too long. The guy does not look like a slam dunk to pan out in the NFL.

Ohio State v. Indiana, every Fields snap
Big 10 Championship v. Northwestern, every Fields snap
National Championship, every Fields snap

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Heroism:
When I think about Justin Fields letting it rip into clearly defined Shanahan-designed throwing windows & matchups, it makes me tingle inside. And then the keeper element added to the wide zone runs, and the limitless goalline/redzone packages by maximizing the numbers game...

Originally posted by roasthawg:
I like Fields as the pick but man the fields lovers are over the top. The guy is fast. He has a good arm. He's shown plenty of bad decision making and questionable deep ball accuracy to give you enough to worry about. There's a reason no pedigree Zack Wilson is going before him. He has major question marks. Still a top ten talent based on athleticism and arm but not without faults. JTO does some really good unbiased breakdowns of coaches film. There's plenty to like but a lot that will leave you scratching your head too. He does not get thru reads as cleanly as Mac does at this point. He misses open guys and doesn't pull the trigger. His deep ball left a lot to be desired, he missed on quite a few long ones.

Which way will Kyle go is anyone's guess but there's a reason people have Mac to sf at #3.

Guess you didn't read the article a few pages ago which shows how often Fields throws past his first read, how accurately and then includes other QBs numbers including Jones?

You may want to go back and check...it doesn't show the above. There have also been posts about the QB rating for both QBs when throwing beyond the first read.

So IF Jones makes his reads faster he certainly doesn't perform well when throwing past the first read. How does that work?

Originally posted by genus49:
Guess you didn't read the article a few pages ago which shows how often Fields throws past his first read, how accurately and then includes other QBs numbers including Jones?

You may want to go back and check...it doesn't show the above. There have also been posts about the QB rating for both QBs when throwing beyond the first read.

So IF Jones makes his reads faster he certainly doesn't perform well when throwing past the first read. How does that work?

Its pointless. He's been fed lies and wants to believe them so he does

Originally posted by NYniner85:

19 more days until he's the 3rd overall pick.

Under center play action with max protection. 40 yard drive throws! Easy decision Kyle! pic.twitter.com/TjccNO0l2C

— Crocky (@eric_crocker) April 11, 2021

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by roasthawg:
I like Fields as the pick but man the fields lovers are over the top. The guy is fast. He has a good arm. He's shown plenty of bad decision making and questionable deep ball accuracy to give you enough to worry about. There's a reason no pedigree Zack Wilson is going before him. He has major question marks. Still a top ten talent based on athleticism and arm but not without faults. JTO does some really good unbiased breakdowns of coaches film. There's plenty to like but a lot that will leave you scratching your head too. He does not get thru reads as cleanly as Mac does at this point. He misses open guys and doesn't pull the trigger. His deep ball left a lot to be desired, he missed on quite a few long ones.

Which way will Kyle go is anyone's guess but there's a reason people have Mac to sf at #3.

Guess you didn't read the article a few pages ago which shows how often Fields throws past his first read, how accurately and then includes other QBs numbers including Jones?

You may want to go back and check...it doesn't show the above. There have also been posts about the QB rating for both QBs when throwing beyond the first read.

So IF Jones makes his reads faster he certainly doesn't perform well when throwing past the first read. How does that work?

Forget an article and especially me with stats. Just watch the tape. That's what the nfl guys do. I'm telling you JTO has great all 22 breakdowns of Fields games on YouTube. Jones one hundred percent gets thru his reads more cleanly than Fields. Neither are perfect. Jones has the advantage in that department though if you watch the film. JTO still likes fields over Mac. Simms doesn't. There's definitely arguments to be made for each but all of you guys that think this is a no brainier slam dunk call aren't looking at the tape. Here's one on Fields, it's only 20 minutes but will show the good and the bad.