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Originally posted by Waterbear:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
19 more days until he's the 3rd overall pick.
— Crocky (@eric_crocker) April 11, 2021
Under center play action with max protection. 40 yard drive throws! Easy decision Kyle! pic.twitter.com/TjccNO0l2C
Originally posted by NYniner85:
19 more days until he's the 3rd overall pick.
— Crocky (@eric_crocker) April 11, 2021
Under center play action with max protection. 40 yard drive throws! Easy decision Kyle! pic.twitter.com/TjccNO0l2C
Originally posted by roasthawg:
Forget an article and especially me with stats. Just watch the tape. That's what the nfl guys do. I'm telling you JTO has great all 22 breakdowns of Fields games on YouTube. Jones one hundred percent gets thru his reads more cleanly than Fields. Neither are perfect. Jones has the advantage in that department though if you watch the film. JTO still likes fields over Mac. Simms doesn't. There's definitely arguments to be made for each but all of you guys that think this is a no brainier slam dunk call aren't looking at the tape. Here's one on Fields, it's only 20 minutes but will show the good and the bad.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
19 more days until he's the 3rd overall pick.
— Crocky (@eric_crocker) April 11, 2021
Under center play action with max protection. 40 yard drive throws! Easy decision Kyle! pic.twitter.com/TjccNO0l2C
Is it just me or is that literally the worst location to throw the ball vs cover 2? Unless it's a Cover 4 and you believe your WR is THAT good. It was beyond the pocket space vs cover 2.
Originally posted by BSofSF:
Here is every snap from Fields in three games this past season where he struggled. No filtering. No explanation. No diagrams. He makes a lot of good plays, and he runs effectively. He makes a lot of inaccurate throws and holds the ball too long. The guy does not look like a slam dunk to pan out in the NFL.
Ohio State v. Indiana, every Fields snap
Big 10 Championship v. Northwestern, every Fields snap
National Championship, every Fields snap
Originally posted by DaBeegDeek:
Originally posted by PhillyNiner:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by PhillyNiner:
Jones isn't that bad, he is younger, cheaper Jimmy. That still has value, we can win games with that if he is able to stay healthy where Jimmy wasn't. I dont really think it was worth the haul we traded to get up here and end up with Jones but if it ends up him we are still in good shape. He just doesnt bring anything to the table that we cant get elsewhere. If we moved Jimmy to get one of those firsts we spent back I would be a little more comfortable. Still disappointed because I think it is clear Fields is the much better prospect, but I would live with it. Especially when we are still winning games and have the money to keep Warner and Bosa etc.
Then I'll take Pitts and Mills in the 2nd if we want "not bad" and Jimmy 2.0.
I would have rather not drafted a QB all together this yr and kept my picks. I would have rather given Dalton $10M if all we want is a system QB.
Jones isn't gonna beat the Allen/PM/Wilson/Rogers of the league.
I really disagree there, next years draft prospects are dire. Jimmy and his injuries are not something we can rely on. If we can beat Wilson and Rogers of the world with Jimmy we can do it with Jones. It isnt ideal, but it is definitely a need that has to be addressed and waiting till next year we could be picking much later from a lot worse choices.
There are actually some really nice prospects in next years draft. The talent isnt better at the top, theres no Lawrence or Fields, but it looks pretty deep to me. And there will be some guys who jump up in rankings like Wilson and Jones this year.
Originally posted by thl408:I view Kyle as more a genius play caller as opposed to a QB coach. He has only had one year in that spot. With that said, I think he can get high level production out of any of the top 5 QBs. In terms of who will be available though, I think Fields maximizes the potential of this offense.
Originally posted by Heroism:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Heroism:
Wow, I'm super late, but it just hit me that Fields throws the ball exactly like Brandon Crawford or most short stops. They need to start teaching short stops QB mechanics so they stop f**king up our two-sport athlete QBs.
When is comes to Fields I do see throws where he has the elongated motion where the elbow comes up first, before the ball, like in the gif of the shortstop. But I also see throws where the motion is much more compact.
Fields played shortstop and I think being an infielder turned QB allows the QB to make the off platform throws that a shortstop has to be able to make in order to to turn a double play. But it seems like when Fields has time, he will revert to a similar motion as in the gif.
@6:40 of the video is when it mentions how he drops the ball low.
Man, I'd really love to hear Kyle's thoughts on this stuff. I'm sure he'd say something along the lines of as long as the ball gets where it needs to go and on time, it doesn't matter.
But if you look at all his QBs, they all have traditional, old-school loads and releases. Kyle's words and actions often don't align, and that's why I'm super skeptical of everything he says.
Kyle has used the term "natural thrower" on a few occasions. Technique-wise I don't know what that means. There's also no evidence that Kyle knows how to scout a QB when it comes to the little details. I trust him completely with scheme and how to break a defense, but things like mechanics, I don't know what Kyle looks for. I'm thinking Mike Shanahan can help out here.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by roasthawg:
Forget an article and especially me with stats. Just watch the tape. That's what the nfl guys do. I'm telling you JTO has great all 22 breakdowns of Fields games on YouTube. Jones one hundred percent gets thru his reads more cleanly than Fields. Neither are perfect. Jones has the advantage in that department though if you watch the film. JTO still likes fields over Mac. Simms doesn't. There's definitely arguments to be made for each but all of you guys that think this is a no brainier slam dunk call aren't looking at the tape. Here's one on Fields, it's only 20 minutes but will show the good and the bad.
IMO the Jone going through reads is a little exaggerated...Literally a 3rd of Jones passing attempts are at or behind the LOS. He ran a spread heavy offense which was all about getting his elite playmakers the ball in space. When he threw passed his 1st read his passing grade plummeted. Dude had more open yards then anyone in college football.
He rarely has quick rhythm throws outside of RPO screens.
Originally posted by roasthawg:
I'm not a Jones lover, my guess is the pick will be Fields and that's who I'm hoping for. I just end up arguing the the Fields crew because they're so over the top sure Fields will be great and Mac will be mediocre at best. I've watched a bunch of breakdowns on Mac. Decent arm, usually goes to the right spot with the ball, not a ton of mistakes but there are some. Accuracy a little spotty (same with Fields). So for me it's athleticism and a stronger arm in Fields corner and less mistakes and more correct plays in Macs corner. Mac also looks a little more accurate with his throws if I had to pick between the two. It's not a no brainier. I'll take Fields myself and let Shannahan coach him up and design an offense that works for him and his strengths. But I can see a case for Mac too. I'm happy with either.
like at one point we were talking about giving up the same amount for Watson lol. What are we doing here?
Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Originally posted by DaBeegDeek:
Originally posted by PhillyNiner:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by PhillyNiner:
Jones isn't that bad, he is younger, cheaper Jimmy. That still has value, we can win games with that if he is able to stay healthy where Jimmy wasn't. I dont really think it was worth the haul we traded to get up here and end up with Jones but if it ends up him we are still in good shape. He just doesnt bring anything to the table that we cant get elsewhere. If we moved Jimmy to get one of those firsts we spent back I would be a little more comfortable. Still disappointed because I think it is clear Fields is the much better prospect, but I would live with it. Especially when we are still winning games and have the money to keep Warner and Bosa etc.
Then I'll take Pitts and Mills in the 2nd if we want "not bad" and Jimmy 2.0.
I would have rather not drafted a QB all together this yr and kept my picks. I would have rather given Dalton $10M if all we want is a system QB.
Jones isn't gonna beat the Allen/PM/Wilson/Rogers of the league.
I really disagree there, next years draft prospects are dire. Jimmy and his injuries are not something we can rely on. If we can beat Wilson and Rogers of the world with Jimmy we can do it with Jones. It isnt ideal, but it is definitely a need that has to be addressed and waiting till next year we could be picking much later from a lot worse choices.
There are actually some really nice prospects in next years draft. The talent isnt better at the top, theres no Lawrence or Fields, but it looks pretty deep to me. And there will be some guys who jump up in rankings like Wilson and Jones this year.
Happens every year.
Originally posted by thl408:I view Kyle as more a genius play caller as opposed to a QB coach. He has only had one year in that spot. With that said, I think he can get high level production out of any of the top 5 QBs. In terms of who will be available though, I think Fields maximizes the potential of this offense.
Originally posted by Heroism:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Heroism:
Wow, I'm super late, but it just hit me that Fields throws the ball exactly like Brandon Crawford or most short stops. They need to start teaching short stops QB mechanics so they stop f**king up our two-sport athlete QBs.
When is comes to Fields I do see throws where he has the elongated motion where the elbow comes up first, before the ball, like in the gif of the shortstop. But I also see throws where the motion is much more compact.
Fields played shortstop and I think being an infielder turned QB allows the QB to make the off platform throws that a shortstop has to be able to make in order to to turn a double play. But it seems like when Fields has time, he will revert to a similar motion as in the gif.
@6:40 of the video is when it mentions how he drops the ball low.
Man, I'd really love to hear Kyle's thoughts on this stuff. I'm sure he'd say something along the lines of as long as the ball gets where it needs to go and on time, it doesn't matter.
But if you look at all his QBs, they all have traditional, old-school loads and releases. Kyle's words and actions often don't align, and that's why I'm super skeptical of everything he says.
Kyle has used the term "natural thrower" on a few occasions. Technique-wise I don't know what that means. There's also no evidence that Kyle knows how to scout a QB when it comes to the little details. I trust him completely with scheme and how to break a defense, but things like mechanics, I don't know what Kyle looks for. I'm thinking Mike Shanahan can help out here.
Originally posted by roasthawg:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by roasthawg:
Forget an article and especially me with stats. Just watch the tape. That's what the nfl guys do. I'm telling you JTO has great all 22 breakdowns of Fields games on YouTube. Jones one hundred percent gets thru his reads more cleanly than Fields. Neither are perfect. Jones has the advantage in that department though if you watch the film. JTO still likes fields over Mac. Simms doesn't. There's definitely arguments to be made for each but all of you guys that think this is a no brainier slam dunk call aren't looking at the tape. Here's one on Fields, it's only 20 minutes but will show the good and the bad.
IMO the Jone going through reads is a little exaggerated...Literally a 3rd of Jones passing attempts are at or behind the LOS. He ran a spread heavy offense which was all about getting his elite playmakers the ball in space. When he threw passed his 1st read his passing grade plummeted. Dude had more open yards then anyone in college football.
He rarely has quick rhythm throws outside of RPO screens.
I'm not a Jones lover, my guess is the pick will be Fields and that's who I'm hoping for. I just end up arguing the the Fields crew because they're so over the top sure Fields will be great and Mac will be mediocre at best. I've watched a bunch of breakdowns on Mac. Decent arm, usually goes to the right spot with the ball, not a ton of mistakes but there are some. Accuracy a little spotty (same with Fields). So for me it's athleticism and a stronger arm in Fields corner and less mistakes and more correct plays in Macs corner. Mac also looks a little more accurate with his throws if I had to pick between the two. It's not a no brainier. I'll take Fields myself and let Shannahan coach him up and design an offense that works for him and his strengths. But I can see a case for Mac too. I'm happy with either.
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by roasthawg:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by roasthawg:
Forget an article and especially me with stats. Just watch the tape. That's what the nfl guys do. I'm telling you JTO has great all 22 breakdowns of Fields games on YouTube. Jones one hundred percent gets thru his reads more cleanly than Fields. Neither are perfect. Jones has the advantage in that department though if you watch the film. JTO still likes fields over Mac. Simms doesn't. There's definitely arguments to be made for each but all of you guys that think this is a no brainier slam dunk call aren't looking at the tape. Here's one on Fields, it's only 20 minutes but will show the good and the bad.
IMO the Jone going through reads is a little exaggerated...Literally a 3rd of Jones passing attempts are at or behind the LOS. He ran a spread heavy offense which was all about getting his elite playmakers the ball in space. When he threw passed his 1st read his passing grade plummeted. Dude had more open yards then anyone in college football.
He rarely has quick rhythm throws outside of RPO screens.
I'm not a Jones lover, my guess is the pick will be Fields and that's who I'm hoping for. I just end up arguing the the Fields crew because they're so over the top sure Fields will be great and Mac will be mediocre at best. I've watched a bunch of breakdowns on Mac. Decent arm, usually goes to the right spot with the ball, not a ton of mistakes but there are some. Accuracy a little spotty (same with Fields). So for me it's athleticism and a stronger arm in Fields corner and less mistakes and more correct plays in Macs corner. Mac also looks a little more accurate with his throws if I had to pick between the two. It's not a no brainier. I'll take Fields myself and let Shannahan coach him up and design an offense that works for him and his strengths. But I can see a case for Mac too. I'm happy with either.
Nobody is saying Jones sucks. The issue is we made this trade, getting a guy who is a good scheme fit shouldn't be enough. You want a game changer and a guy who can elevate your team.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by roasthawg:
I'm not a Jones lover, my guess is the pick will be Fields and that's who I'm hoping for. I just end up arguing the the Fields crew because they're so over the top sure Fields will be great and Mac will be mediocre at best. I've watched a bunch of breakdowns on Mac. Decent arm, usually goes to the right spot with the ball, not a ton of mistakes but there are some. Accuracy a little spotty (same with Fields). So for me it's athleticism and a stronger arm in Fields corner and less mistakes and more correct plays in Macs corner. Mac also looks a little more accurate with his throws if I had to pick between the two. It's not a no brainier. I'll take Fields myself and let Shannahan coach him up and design an offense that works for him and his strengths. But I can see a case for Mac too. I'm happy with either.
Hey that's fair. For me I don't see Jones as a can't miss prospect at all though...what he's good at can be found in every draft. Fields has god given ability.
I see no case for Jones being the pick. You can get a system QB. This honestly should not even be a debate and it's mind blowing that there are legit people that think it is or would be fine giving up 3 1sts for Jones
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by roasthawg:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by roasthawg:
Forget an article and especially me with stats. Just watch the tape. That's what the nfl guys do. I'm telling you JTO has great all 22 breakdowns of Fields games on YouTube. Jones one hundred percent gets thru his reads more cleanly than Fields. Neither are perfect. Jones has the advantage in that department though if you watch the film. JTO still likes fields over Mac. Simms doesn't. There's definitely arguments to be made for each but all of you guys that think this is a no brainier slam dunk call aren't looking at the tape. Here's one on Fields, it's only 20 minutes but will show the good and the bad.
IMO the Jone going through reads is a little exaggerated...Literally a 3rd of Jones passing attempts are at or behind the LOS. He ran a spread heavy offense which was all about getting his elite playmakers the ball in space. When he threw passed his 1st read his passing grade plummeted. Dude had more open yards then anyone in college football.
He rarely has quick rhythm throws outside of RPO screens.
I'm not a Jones lover, my guess is the pick will be Fields and that's who I'm hoping for. I just end up arguing the the Fields crew because they're so over the top sure Fields will be great and Mac will be mediocre at best. I've watched a bunch of breakdowns on Mac. Decent arm, usually goes to the right spot with the ball, not a ton of mistakes but there are some. Accuracy a little spotty (same with Fields). So for me it's athleticism and a stronger arm in Fields corner and less mistakes and more correct plays in Macs corner. Mac also looks a little more accurate with his throws if I had to pick between the two. It's not a no brainier. I'll take Fields myself and let Shannahan coach him up and design an offense that works for him and his strengths. But I can see a case for Mac too. I'm happy with either.
Nobody is saying Jones sucks. The issue is we made this trade, getting a guy who is a good scheme fit shouldn't be enough. You want a game changer and a guy who can elevate your team.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Hey that's fair. For me I don't see Jones as a can't miss prospect at all though...what he's good at can be found in every draft. Fields has god given ability.
I see no case for Jones being the pick. You can get a system QB. This honestly should not even be a debate and it's mind blowing that there are legit people that think it is or would be fine giving up 3 1sts for Jones
