Originally posted by roasthawg:
I disagree. I mean all things being equal of course you want a game changer. But you don't need one for the trade to be successful. You just need him to not be worse than Jimmy. This freed up almost $20m a year to resign guys like bosa and Warner. That's the big win here.
You can draft Trask, Mond or Mills later in the draft and save even more money while adding talent earlier at other spots.
just saving money from Jimmy cuz of this is a huge fail. You need the top notch QB out of it.
Originally posted by roasthawg:
I disagree. I mean all things being equal of course you want a game changer. But you don't need one for the trade to be successful. You just need him to not be worse than Jimmy. This freed up almost $20m a year to resign guys like bosa and Warner. That's the big win here.
You can draft Trask, Mond or Mills later in the draft and save even more money while adding talent earlier at other spots.
just saving money from Jimmy cuz of this is a huge fail. You need the top notch QB out of it.
Like I said, you need the qb to be at least as good as Jimmy. It's the most important position in the game. Shannahan needs the guaranteed thing. And he obviously believes he's found him and he'll be there at three.
Originally posted by PhillyNiner:
Jones isn't that bad, he is younger, cheaper Jimmy. That still has value, we can win games with that if he is able to stay healthy where Jimmy wasn't. I dont really think it was worth the haul we traded to get up here and end up with Jones but if it ends up him we are still in good shape. He just doesnt bring anything to the table that we cant get elsewhere. If we moved Jimmy to get one of those firsts we spent back I would be a little more comfortable. Still disappointed because I think it is clear Fields is the much better prospect, but I would live with it. Especially when we are still winning games and have the money to keep Warner and Bosa etc.
Then I'll take Pitts and Mills in the 2nd if we want "not bad" and Jimmy 2.0.
I would have rather not drafted a QB all together this yr and kept my picks. I would have rather given Dalton $10M if all we want is a system QB.
Jones isn't gonna beat the Allen/PM/Wilson/Rogers of the league.
I really disagree there, next years draft prospects are dire. Jimmy and his injuries are not something we can rely on. If we can beat Wilson and Rogers of the world with Jimmy we can do it with Jones. It isnt ideal, but it is definitely a need that has to be addressed and waiting till next year we could be picking much later from a lot worse choices.
There are actually some really nice prospects in next years draft. The talent isnt better at the top, theres no Lawrence or Fields, but it looks pretty deep to me. And there will be some guys who jump up in rankings like Wilson and Jones this year.
Happens every year.
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Heroism:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Heroism:
Wow, I'm super late, but it just hit me that Fields throws the ball exactly like Brandon Crawford or most short stops. They need to start teaching short stops QB mechanics so they stop f**king up our two-sport athlete QBs.
When is comes to Fields I do see throws where he has the elongated motion where the elbow comes up first, before the ball, like in the gif of the shortstop. But I also see throws where the motion is much more compact.
Fields played shortstop and I think being an infielder turned QB allows the QB to make the off platform throws that a shortstop has to be able to make in order to to turn a double play. But it seems like when Fields has time, he will revert to a similar motion as in the gif.
@6:40 of the video is when it mentions how he drops the ball low.
Man, I'd really love to hear Kyle's thoughts on this stuff. I'm sure he'd say something along the lines of as long as the ball gets where it needs to go and on time, it doesn't matter.
But if you look at all his QBs, they all have traditional, old-school loads and releases. Kyle's words and actions often don't align, and that's why I'm super skeptical of everything he says.
Kyle has used the term "natural thrower" on a few occasions. Technique-wise I don't know what that means. There's also no evidence that Kyle knows how to scout a QB when it comes to the little details. I trust him completely with scheme and how to break a defense, but things like mechanics, I don't know what Kyle looks for. I'm thinking Mike Shanahan can help out here.
I view Kyle as more a genius play caller as opposed to a QB coach. He has only had one year in that spot. With that said, I think he can get high level production out of any of the top 5 QBs. In terms of who will be available though, I think Fields maximizes the potential of this offense.
I doubt the top 5 are all capable of high production. History suggests 2 or 3 of them will be below average in the NFL.
I get the history, but we have to do a deeper dive. If we are going off of history alone, then we should've have even traded up for pick #3.
1) Normally, QBs drafted high go to TERRIBLE situations with terrible teams around them. They are expected to be saviors and carry the team for day 1. Shanahan got damn near all-time great production out of Nick Mullens in his first 16 starts. Over 4700 yards and 25 TDs. Even Beathard, for as terrible as he has been, threw for over 3400 and had 18 TDs in his first 12 starts. Surely, Kyle can take a QB with first round talent and do quite well with that pick. Said player will also be in a situation that may be unprecedented. Has a young QB, save for Big Ben gone to a team this talented?
2) Urban Meyer has a great history, winning at every level and winning quickly. However this was all at the college level. With that said, I don't see Lawrence being a flat out bust unless the Jags just blow their picks for the next several years. I think worse case scenario, he will be average.
3) If Zach Wilson goes to the Jets, he starts off with a solid coaching staff in place, and a lot of draft picks in the next two years to improve the talent level of that team. We'll see there.
4) Mac Jones I think goes to New England or Denver. If it's New England, he should be fine. If it's Denver, good luck.
5) Trey Lance- this is the biggest wild card. I would think Carolina takes him, Seems to be a solid staff in place so I think Lance would be in good hands there.
All appear to be hard workers and most will end up in better than usual circumstances.
In our offense, based on history, Kyle should get high production out of any of them. In terms of all 5 teams landing wherever they land, I'm thinking 3 of the 5 will make it.
My Dad had season tickets to the Niners when they were in the All American Football Conference and played at Kezar Stadium. He started taking my brother and I to games at Candlestick around 1976. I saw OJ Simpson, Jim Plunkett, Norm Sneed, Delvin Williams, Paul Hofer. I saw the 49ers run through head coaches and general managers like crap through a goose when Eddie DeBartolo first bought the team. I went to watch the summer training camp at Rocklin at Sierra College and seeing the rookies Dwight Clark and Joe Montana up close. I remember seeing Jerry Rice torch our All Pro defensive backs in rookie training camp before anyone had seen him on the field. I was at The Catch game (we took home some of the turf for our backyard), The Catch II, the epic and bitter battles with Dallas in the Aikman era and the game where Bears' head coach Mike Ditka got so pissed off at taunting 49ers fans that he threw his gum at a fan and was charged with assault. I remember Roger Craig coughing it up on a simple run up the middle against the New York Giants to cost us a Three-Peat. I remember Montana on the turf stunned from the blindside shot by Leonard Marshall. I attended the Super Bowl victories against Cincinnati in Detroit, against Miami at Stanford, against Denver in New Orleans and against San Diego in Miami. I remember hating Deion Sanders, then loving him, then hating him again when he went to Dallas. I remember watching baiting the New Orleans QB, I think Hebert, and closing on an out quicker than any other human I'd ever seen right in front of our seats and taking it to the house. I moved to Southern California and gave up my tickets just before the Harbaugh era, but still and always will love them and watch them religiously. So, yes, I knew that was Jim Plunkett, who ironically went on and salvaged what seemed like a wrecked career and won two Super Bowls with Oakland. And I've seen enough great and s**tty QB play, and enough hyped and untyped prospects, to question anyone's certainty that any of the dudes available to us are a sure thing. Elway was a sure thing. They said Andrew Luck was a sure thing. There aren't many prospects that come through as projected, and often times the great ones sneak up on us and come up under the radar. Put it in the bank.
Originally posted by PhillyNiner:
Jones isn't that bad, he is younger, cheaper Jimmy. That still has value, we can win games with that if he is able to stay healthy where Jimmy wasn't. I dont really think it was worth the haul we traded to get up here and end up with Jones but if it ends up him we are still in good shape. He just doesnt bring anything to the table that we cant get elsewhere. If we moved Jimmy to get one of those firsts we spent back I would be a little more comfortable. Still disappointed because I think it is clear Fields is the much better prospect, but I would live with it. Especially when we are still winning games and have the money to keep Warner and Bosa etc.
Then I'll take Pitts and Mills in the 2nd if we want "not bad" and Jimmy 2.0.
I would have rather not drafted a QB all together this yr and kept my picks. I would have rather given Dalton $10M if all we want is a system QB.
Jones isn't gonna beat the Allen/PM/Wilson/Rogers of the league.
I really disagree there, next years draft prospects are dire. Jimmy and his injuries are not something we can rely on. If we can beat Wilson and Rogers of the world with Jimmy we can do it with Jones. It isnt ideal, but it is definitely a need that has to be addressed and waiting till next year we could be picking much later from a lot worse choices.
There are actually some really nice prospects in next years draft. The talent isnt better at the top, theres no Lawrence or Fields, but it looks pretty deep to me. And there will be some guys who jump up in rankings like Wilson and Jones this year.
Happens every year.
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Heroism:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Heroism:
Wow, I'm super late, but it just hit me that Fields throws the ball exactly like Brandon Crawford or most short stops. They need to start teaching short stops QB mechanics so they stop f**king up our two-sport athlete QBs.
When is comes to Fields I do see throws where he has the elongated motion where the elbow comes up first, before the ball, like in the gif of the shortstop. But I also see throws where the motion is much more compact.
Fields played shortstop and I think being an infielder turned QB allows the QB to make the off platform throws that a shortstop has to be able to make in order to to turn a double play. But it seems like when Fields has time, he will revert to a similar motion as in the gif.
@6:40 of the video is when it mentions how he drops the ball low.
Man, I'd really love to hear Kyle's thoughts on this stuff. I'm sure he'd say something along the lines of as long as the ball gets where it needs to go and on time, it doesn't matter.
But if you look at all his QBs, they all have traditional, old-school loads and releases. Kyle's words and actions often don't align, and that's why I'm super skeptical of everything he says.
Kyle has used the term "natural thrower" on a few occasions. Technique-wise I don't know what that means. There's also no evidence that Kyle knows how to scout a QB when it comes to the little details. I trust him completely with scheme and how to break a defense, but things like mechanics, I don't know what Kyle looks for. I'm thinking Mike Shanahan can help out here.
I view Kyle as more a genius play caller as opposed to a QB coach. He has only had one year in that spot. With that said, I think he can get high level production out of any of the top 5 QBs. In terms of who will be available though, I think Fields maximizes the potential of this offense.
I doubt the top 5 are all capable of high production. History suggests 2 or 3 of them will be below average in the NFL.
I get the history, but we have to do a deeper dive. If we are going off of history alone, then we should've have even traded up for pick #3.
1) Normally, QBs drafted high go to TERRIBLE situations with terrible teams around them. They are expected to be saviors and carry the team for day 1. Shanahan got damn near all-time great production out of Nick Mullens in his first 16 starts. Over 4700 yards and 25 TDs. Even Beathard, for as terrible as he has been, threw for over 3400 and had 18 TDs in his first 12 starts. Surely, Kyle can take a QB with first round talent and do quite well with that pick. Said player will also be in a situation that may be unprecedented. Has a young QB, save for Big Ben gone to a team this talented?
2) Urban Meyer has a great history, winning at every level and winning quickly. However this was all at the college level. With that said, I don't see Lawrence being a flat out bust unless the Jags just blow their picks for the next several years. I think worse case scenario, he will be average.
3) If Zach Wilson goes to the Jets, he starts off with a solid coaching staff in place, and a lot of draft picks in the next two years to improve the talent level of that team. We'll see there.
4) Mac Jones I think goes to New England or Denver. If it's New England, he should be fine. If it's Denver, good luck.
5) Trey Lance- this is the biggest wild card. I would think Carolina takes him, Seems to be a solid staff in place so I think Lance would be in good hands there.
All appear to be hard workers and most will end up in better than usual circumstances.
In our offense, based on history, Kyle should get high production out of any of them. In terms of all 5 teams landing wherever they land, I'm thinking 3 of the 5 will make it.
The odds of all of those coaches even still being with those teams in 3 years in low.
The Jets don't even have an offensive coordinator who has even called plays, and a defensive head coach who won't be much help to him. We saw first hand how that went when Mike Nolan and Singletary were coaching here.
Urban Meyer is trying something he has never done before. Ask Nick Saban how the transition from college to pro is. He's already a guy who has been known to bail when it gets tough, what's going to keep him from having another "medical problem" or just running back to college when some blue blood comes calling?
What's going to happen in New England? You're a rookie with every move being compared to the greatest QB in the free agency era and playing for some of the toughest head coaches in the NFL? That doesn't really sound like a recipe for success.
Denver has been trying highly rated QBs since Manning let, and before, none of them have worked out.
There's no reason to think this year is different. Some of these picks are going to suck.
And yeah, the trade we made is pretty damn risky. We blow the pick and we might well have closed the super bowl window we have right now.
Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:
Ryan Day and his relationship with KS is all you need to know why we used so much draft capital to move up and draft Justin Fields
God, if we could just bring back old #16. 
