Justin Fields QB - Ohio State

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by 4ML:
Size and weight may be similar - I think frame wise Mahomes and Lance are closer.

Yes, Mahomes passed more and ran less - just like fields. But, imo Mahomes arm strength is closer to Lance's arm strength - which is more than Fields - and off balance throws come more naturally to Lance just like they do to Mahomes. Now, Mahomes is at his own level but that's where I see similarities with Lance.

Also - my initial post was also about mental aspect. Mahomes is applauded for how quickly he learned Andy Reid's playbook.

QB Takeover coach - who coached both Lance and Fields said He has never seen anyone like Lance when it comes to understanding the game and said his potential is highest in the draft.

Fields has a stronger arm than the vast majority of NFL starters. Lance might have a stronger arm but Fields is far closer to him in arm strength than Lance is close to Fields in accuracy.

Now can Lance improve his accuracy, sure. Josh Allen did, but there's also far more QB's who failed to improve their accuracy in any meaningful way after being drafted. Fields arm is more than sufficient for any play in Shanahan's playbook but he also has proven accuracy to all levels and was someone that had to rely upon his arm far more often to win games.

I don't think the upside between the two is that much different but I see Fields as the better QB right now. If you draft Lance you're taking him hoping that he can be as good as Fields is now and then get better in the future.

Yeah, your probably right, Phoenix - Fields is the more polished in his game than Lance. Just nice to hear that they are taking Lance seriously, even though the pick will probably be Fields.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by 4ML:
Size and weight may be similar - I think frame wise Mahomes and Lance are closer.

Yes, Mahomes passed more and ran less - just like fields. But, imo Mahomes arm strength is closer to Lance's arm strength - which is more than Fields - and off balance throws come more naturally to Lance just like they do to Mahomes. Now, Mahomes is at his own level but that's where I see similarities with Lance.

Also - my initial post was also about mental aspect. Mahomes is applauded for how quickly he learned Andy Reid's playbook.

QB Takeover coach - who coached both Lance and Fields said He has never seen anyone like Lance when it comes to understanding the game and said his potential is highest in the draft.

Fields has a stronger arm than the vast majority of NFL starters. Lance might have a stronger arm but Fields is far closer to him in arm strength than Lance is close to Fields in accuracy.

Now can Lance improve his accuracy, sure. Josh Allen did, but there's also far more QB's who failed to improve their accuracy in any meaningful way after being drafted. Fields arm is more than sufficient for any play in Shanahan's playbook but he also has proven accuracy to all levels and was someone that had to rely upon his arm far more often to win games.

I don't think the upside between the two is that much different but I see Fields as the better QB right now. If you draft Lance you're taking him hoping that he can be as good as Fields is now and then get better in the future.

Oh yea - Fields will be great fit too. Anyway - You should really check out that interview. He addressed Lance accuracy issues and other things as well. He coached Lance for only 5 months and has coached Fields for years and he think a Lance has a much higher ceiling. He also talked about Lance ridiculous work ethics and why he says he has never seen anyone like him before. He brought some coaches to help Lance and during film sessions - coaches were trying to learn from him.

Also - you hoping everyone you drafted improve drastically. Don't think any QB can come from college and dominate NFL without getting significantly better. What you're really judging is - who has the physical traits and the mindset and work ethic to get there. I think both Fields and Lance have that - but their private coach believes Lance is on another level when it comes to some of those things.

Originally posted by 4ML:
I posted this in Lance thread but I'll post it here too.

This guy coached both Fields and Lance and believes Lance's potential is the highest in this draft. Go to 11min mark when he starts speaking about them.

Gonna bump this for ppl who may have missed it. Must watch imho.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I'm just ready for them to pick whoever and get this done with so we can move.

Two weeks and then you can sleep at night. I think it's gonna be what it's supposed to be. We all know what was given to get to three and we all know the type of immense talent that move needs to justify it. This is why the pick is gonna be the player it's gonna be

These people ain't stupid and they know how to value draft picks and they know where players were gonna fall on the draft boards

Everyone knows that Mac was gonna be there for us at 12 but Fields wasn't

Originally posted by 4ML:
Oh yea - Fields will be great fit too. Anyway - You should really check out that interview. He addressed Lance accuracy issues and other things as well. He coached Lance for only 5 months and has coached Fields for years and he think a Lance has a much higher ceiling. He also talked about Lance ridiculous work ethics and why he says he has never seen anyone like him before. He brought some coaches to help Lance and during film sessions - coaches were trying to learn from him.

Also - you hoping everyone you drafted improve drastically. Don't think any QB can come from college and dominate NFL without getting significantly better.

Honestly all this stuff is fluff and means very little in the grand scheme of things. I can pull up every QB bust for the past decade and there was someone going on about their "amazing work ethic and relentless competitive nature" and how they were different from all the others. It means nothing. I remember people ranting about Blaine Gabbert's incredible combination of athleticism, arm strength and his unparalleled work ethic when it came to film study. These guys can go out there and say all this stuff, lay it on thick and if the guy flops, blame it on random chance, NFL coaching or whatever. You're going to be loyal to whoever is signing your checks at that moment.

Its pretty clear that Lance works really hard. So do all the other QB's. None of these guys seem like they're going to fail because they don't show up and put the work in.

I still think it goes back to looking at actual game performances and making your best bet on how that will translate into NFL performance and to me, between the two, Fields has just shown a lot more overall to be confident in who you're getting. He's closer to a finished product while still having a ton of upside and room for improvement.

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

I haven't seen anyone do this sort of thing so casually:

Fields was set and had a clear pocket. Perhaps you forgot to put on your boomer glasses, but the Mahomes gif has him throwing fifty yards off his back foot under pressure that hit him just after release, not from three yards away from the nearest defender with his feet set.

No reason to embellish things. If you want to be a Mahomes homer go be a KC fan. Its not hard.

Embellish? It's about observable reality. I'm a fan of MY EYES, which is why I argue these things.

Let me guess: you think Jimmy and Stafford are interchangeable as well, right? Who was the one saying Watson and Jimmy are about the same? Was that you?

Still talking about Stafford? He's not nearly as good as you try to make him.

How good is that? Better than Jimmy. That's basically the argument. Which is disputed by you a d a bunch of others in the Jimmy Club.

Marginally if at all. We have seen what they can both do in a full season and it's pretty similar.

That's laughable. Hell will freeze over before Jimmy can make the ARM STRENGTH kind of throws Stafford can (who has ELITE arm strength).

Now what QUARTERBACK SPECIFIC ACTION can Jimmy do that Stafford can't?

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

I haven't seen anyone do this sort of thing so casually:

Fields was set and had a clear pocket. Perhaps you forgot to put on your boomer glasses, but the Mahomes gif has him throwing fifty yards off his back foot under pressure that hit him just after release, not from three yards away from the nearest defender with his feet set.

No reason to embellish things. If you want to be a Mahomes homer go be a KC fan. Its not hard.

Embellish? It's about observable reality. I'm a fan of MY EYES, which is why I argue these things.

Let me guess: you think Jimmy and Stafford are interchangeable as well, right? Who was the one saying Watson and Jimmy are about the same? Was that you?

Still talking about Stafford? He's not nearly as good as you try to make him.

How good is that? Better than Jimmy. That's basically the argument. Which is disputed by you a d a bunch of others in the Jimmy Club.

Marginally if at all. We have seen what they can both do in a full season and it's pretty similar.

That's laughable. Hell will freeze over before Jimmy can make the ARM STRENGTH kind of throws Stafford can (who has ELITE arm strength).

His arm strength doesn't mean s**t if it doesn't help him OUTPRODUCE other QBs. They arent prospects anymore, production is how they are judged. In fact, it makes him worse to have the physical gifts and still not produce more.

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by boomer49er:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

I haven't seen anyone do this sort of thing so casually:

Fields was set and had a clear pocket. Perhaps you forgot to put on your boomer glasses, but the Mahomes gif has him throwing fifty yards off his back foot under pressure that hit him just after release, not from three yards away from the nearest defender with his feet set.

No reason to embellish things. If you want to be a Mahomes homer go be a KC fan. Its not hard.

Embellish? It's about observable reality. I'm a fan of MY EYES, which is why I argue these things.

Let me guess: you think Jimmy and Stafford are interchangeable as well, right? Who was the one saying Watson and Jimmy are about the same? Was that you?

Still talking about Stafford? He's not nearly as good as you try to make him.

How good is that? Better than Jimmy. That's basically the argument. Which is disputed by you a d a bunch of others in the Jimmy Club.

Marginally if at all. We have seen what they can both do in a full season and it's pretty similar.

That's laughable. Hell will freeze over before Jimmy can make the ARM STRENGTH kind of throws Stafford can (who has ELITE arm strength).

His arm strength doesn't mean s**t if it doesn't help him OUTPRODUCE other QBs. They arent prospects anymore, production is how they are judged. In fact, it makes him worse to have the physical gifts and still not produce more.

Last year Jimmy "produced" 182 yards per game. Stafford "produced" 255 per game (and he's 4th all time in that metric; 12th this season -- Jimmy would be good for 34th in 2020).

I'm not buying the Lance over Fields hype. I'd believe Jones before I believe that. Whatever they may like about Lance Fields also checks off and he has way more tape to go by.

I think Folks think Lance because they have not traded Jimmy so they assume Lance since he needs development. That logic could and should be applied to all 3 of them.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Embellish? It's about observable reality. I'm a fan of MY EYES, which is why I argue these things.

Let me guess: you think Jimmy and Stafford are interchangeable as well, right? Who was the one saying Watson and Jimmy are about the same? Was that you?

Mahomes is a great NFL player. No need to embellish his college days to pump him up. He doesn't need it.

He's a great NFL player and he was a great college player, drafted 10th overall, before Watson. Media personnel were wrong due to their bias against scheme (as were many people here).

I'm not pumping anyone. You are DOWNGRADING someone for some mysterious reason, and YOU are pumping up FIELDS, as evidenced by you claiming a deep pass where he had room to set his feet is the same as one thrown off the back foot and five yards deeper. Why you would feel the need to do that in the Fields thread where 90% of us (including me) want the 49ers to draft him is also a mystery.

It's really not what's happening though.

if you saw him as this elite prospect kudos to you but we have to look at the national media and general consensus when talking about what kind of prospect someone was.

Fields has been an elite prospect since HS. The only thing preventing him from being the top dog was being in the same state/class as Trevor Lawrence.

I know some people were high on Mahomes' potential but how many had him as a top 10 pick even before the draft? Even with people talking Fields down for some crazy reason after a covid season...how many have him going outside the top 10? Outside of Charlie Casserly that is. For reference Casserly had Mahomes going 32nd in his final mock draft in 2017.

He was drafted 10th. That means he was highly considered in the NFL. Even Shanahan thought he'd be there late in the first or 2nd (can't remember which, but he did say they liked him, but Cousins).

As for Fields, I think the main reason he's getting knocked is because Chris Simms likes Jones, and everyone assumes Shanahan does, and as a result, to make Jones more palatable, they have to knock the obvious choice: Fields.

How many pages is this thread gonna get to by draft night???

Following up on my previous post, because I tend to forget.. they do get to zoom with the kids so it is possible one of them is really clicking with Kyle etc. that would make sense.

If the 49ers draft Lance over Fields that is really putting their nuts on table. There is a far far greater chance of Fields being a BOOM than Lance. I'm not sure this HC and GM can afford to take such a huge risk at this point of their careers by drafting :Lance, and hoping not only does he become as good as Fields is right now, but actually becomes better than him in the pros too. The risk seems to great when you don't have to take that chance. Just draft Justin Fields when you can and know it is a good chance you got it right.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by 4ML:
Oh yea - Fields will be great fit too. Anyway - You should really check out that interview. He addressed Lance accuracy issues and other things as well. He coached Lance for only 5 months and has coached Fields for years and he think a Lance has a much higher ceiling. He also talked about Lance ridiculous work ethics and why he says he has never seen anyone like him before. He brought some coaches to help Lance and during film sessions - coaches were trying to learn from him.

Also - you hoping everyone you drafted improve drastically. Don't think any QB can come from college and dominate NFL without getting significantly better.

Honestly all this stuff is fluff and means very little in the grand scheme of things. I can pull up every QB bust for the past decade and there was someone going on about their "amazing work ethic and relentless competitive nature" and how they were different from all the others. It means nothing. I remember people ranting about Blaine Gabbert's incredible combination of athleticism, arm strength and his unparalleled work ethic when it came to film study. These guys can go out there and say all this stuff, lay it on thick and if the guy flops, blame it on random chance, NFL coaching or whatever. You're going to be loyal to whoever is signing your checks at that moment.

Its pretty clear that Lance works really hard. So do all the other QB's. None of these guys seem like they're going to fail because they don't show up and put the work in.

I still think it goes back to looking at actual game performances and making your best bet on how that will translate into NFL performance and to me, between the two, Fields has just shown a lot more overall to be confident in who you're getting. He's closer to a finished product while still having a ton of upside and room for improvement.

I don't think that's fair, both of these guys have now gone to work with Beck, and surely he would just talk both up unless he clearly had a favourite. I think this has weight. It won't to Kyle, but maybe if Beck says the same it just might.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
I don't think that's fair, both of these guys have now gone to work with Beck, and surely he would just talk both up unless he clearly had a favourite. I think this has weight. It won't to Kyle, but maybe if Beck says the same it just might.

It wasn't Beck saying that, it was this guy:

https://qbcoachmcevoy.com/

One QB is a current client, the other is a former client. Of course you're going to talk up the guy that is paying you at the moment. But even that is besides the point, no matter the QB, unless they are a complete basketcase or a*****e, you'll always find someone singing their praises and talking about how they are just absolutely unbelievable, "the best I've ever seen" and all that stuff. Its hyperbole season yo!