Justin Fields QB - Ohio State

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by Jcool:
You cant teach this

Yep, one of the most beautiful deep passes I've seen in awhile. A legitimate 60 yard bomb in a congested pocket and it was right on the money. In the context of this game, this was a real dagger. Clemson had just scored a TD and looked like they could get back in the game and then Fields threw this bomb and killed all hope of a comeback. Shortly after he followed it up with another similar bomb to remove any remaining doubt.

Basically if Shanahan picks Jones it's a fireable offense, at least based on the information available right now. Especially in light of the Solomon Thomas/CJ Beathard fiasco.

Hence the absolute necessity of this pick being by the triumvirate, everybody with one vote. Peters/Kyle. JohnL. If this goes to the HC because he is the one calling plays, then it needs to be, HAS to be , unanimous. I've posted this at least a dozen times and it gets ignored. But the rubber is about to meet the road here and anything less than a unanimous vote, and i would deem our draft a fail.

This has to be a summit of the WISE people. No matter who holds out for xyz, it has to be unanimous. 2/3 doesn't work either . From here in the cheap seats , everyone has to has his name on it and accepts responsibility and congratulations. If there is a divide, then we got the wrong guy. All 3 sign off on it, and I'm fine with anyone of the 4, assuming jets completely go in a different direction, and Saleh is getting tired of looking at this video. I am Mac to Zac on this and all in between.

Isn't John in charge of the 90 and kyle the 45? Did that little item get ignored or was it never true to start with? If anybody should have the final say here, it should be John and peters. Kyle has some kind of lack in picking QB talent...just...well look at the list. Not awe inspiring . And JimmyG who took us to the SB, was basically dropped on us by BB. Still no matter about the 90, it must be unanimous.

Do that and really with Kyle's ability to playcall and set up plays, calling somebody open....he has the talent to teach and create. There is talent galore here, no matter who we choose, and I'd be thrilled with any of them. That's a long way from where I started at #12 with either Mac, Surtain, or Slater.

But i came around on QBs, and now, we're golden as long as it is unanimous.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Last year Jimmy "produced" 182 yards per game. Stafford "produced" 255 per game (and he's 4th all time in that metric; 12th this season -- Jimmy would be good for 34th in 2020).

Jimmy has a better ypa. Are we punishing Jimmy for having a run game? Stafford is a career loser. Whatever excuse you want to make (justified or otherwise) that is what he is

^^^ you may be right. Each situation is different. I think the guy coached both guys and has coached Watson also - so he does have skin in the game.

Also - I think money and fame can really mess with you. Lot of ppl can't deal with it. So evaluation can be right - player may have lost his hunger and drive.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

I doubt very seriously that the pick is Lance. He's good, but Lance has WHY too much development to be had. He needs at least 2 seasons to be bridged in. We have one more season with Jimmy. Fields will be the better pick as he'll actually be ready by mid season (not that he'll be the mid season starter). In 2022 he'll be hitting the ground running. So I can't see Lance being the pick.

Yeah I keep hearing that Lance needs more time than Fields and I just don't buy it. You can argue that Fields is the better overall prospect and I have no issues with that but Lance is the most familiar with this kind of scheme, calling protections, memorizing long play calls, huddling, the short passing game, manipulating defenses with footwork, all stuff Fields did not do much of or at all in college.

I think the fanbase would generally feel better about Fields playing earlier because most people saw him play against elite competition while Lance wasn't even playing in D1. But that doesn't mean he's the most pro ready. Just look at Wentz and Goff coming out. Wentz was far more effective than Goff early on in his career when he didn't have the stats or play against the level of competition that Goff did.

Lance and Fields are two completely different prospects but if I had to guess who would fair better if they had to play early in year one it would be Wilson and Lance because they know the system period. That doesn't take away from the fact that Fields could be the best QB in this class.

Originally posted by frenchmov:
Jimmy has a better ypa. Are we punishing Jimmy for having a run game? Stafford is a career loser. Whatever excuse you want to make (justified or otherwise) that is what he is

FWIW Depth of target (ADOT & ADOC) are a much better stat to use compared to YPA

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
He was drafted 10th. That means he was highly considered in the NFL. Even Shanahan thought he'd be there late in the first or 2nd (can't remember which, but he did say they liked him, but Cousins).

As for Fields, I think the main reason he's getting knocked is because Chris Simms likes Jones, and everyone assumes Shanahan does, and as a result, to make Jones more palatable, they have to knock the obvious choice: Fields.

Y'all still on Mahomes? Dude that discussion is tired, Mahomes isn't amazing anymore.,

This here is the new hotness:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
FWIW Depth of target (ADOT & ADOC) are a much better stat to use compared to YPA

I don't think Stafford is a junk QB, but not do I think much will change for the Rams with him. They'll be in that top 10-15 range passing

^^^ok, that outdid everybody...yes including Mahomes.

Originally posted by frenchmov:
I don't think Stafford is a junk QB, but not do I think much will change for the Rams with him. They'll be in that top 10-15 range passing

I think you're going to end up eating those words. Goff left SO many plays out on the field, his lack of vision was the equivalent of having an extra couple of defenders out there.

Its not just that Stafford has a better arm but he's a much better passer overall. McVay is about to have the most talented QB that he's ever worked with, by far. I do think that will lead to a major improvement in their offense. Their biggest issue IMO is how thin they are now on defense. Just a couple injuries can absolutely decimate them. So their offense improves considerably but their defense will likely take a several steps back.

Originally posted by frenchmov:
I don't think Stafford is a junk QB, but not do I think much will change for the Rams with him. They'll be in that top 10-15 range passing

Stafford is twice the QB Goff is...SF needs to up their game at QB and fields/Lance will do that

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by flynhayn15:

Originally posted by 4ML:
Mahomes is more like a Lance runner. Power runner - hard to bring down due to his size and strength. Though I think Lance is faster. Also, I think Lance will be bigger. He's 230lbs at age 20. His frame is massive. I can see him put on 10-15lbs easily without losing speed.

Originally posted by 4ML:
Never really said that though. I said - Lance has similar ability of breaking tackles. Comparing their body size. Not saying Mahomes runs as often as those guys.

Uh....yeah you did. Don't try to back track now.

Yes, as far as running style. Lol you said Lance is like Lamar bc their running stats are similar which is laughable bc stats and style are two different things.

Lamar's style of running is nothing like Lance. Mahomes - when he chooses to run - is how Lance runs - though Lance is faster and will probably be much bigger in 2 years.

If you can't understand this basic distinction - then pointless to continue this discussion.

Actually.....

This is what I said.

"I would say Lance's college career is closer to Lamar Jackson's than it is to Mahomes."

You were the one that brought up running styles.

Mahomes threw the ball 1400 times in college. Lance threw the ball 288 times. To compare their college careers is ridiculous.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by frenchmov:
I don't think Stafford is a junk QB, but not do I think much will change for the Rams with him. They'll be in that top 10-15 range passing

Stafford is twice the QB Goff is...SF needs to up their game at QB and fields/Lance will do that

Stafford is also a slow guy in the pocket. The exact type of QB our DL destroys when healthy.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by 4ML:
Size and weight may be similar - I think frame wise Mahomes and Lance are closer.

Yes, Mahomes passed more and ran less - just like fields. But, imo Mahomes arm strength is closer to Lance's arm strength - which is more than Fields - and off balance throws come more naturally to Lance just like they do to Mahomes. Now, Mahomes is at his own level but that's where I see similarities with Lance.

Also - my initial post was also about mental aspect. Mahomes is applauded for how quickly he learned Andy Reid's playbook.

QB Takeover coach - who coached both Lance and Fields said He has never seen anyone like Lance when it comes to understanding the game and said his potential is highest in the draft.

Fields has a stronger arm than the vast majority of NFL starters. Lance might have a stronger arm but Fields is far closer to him in arm strength than Lance is close to Fields in accuracy.

Now can Lance improve his accuracy, sure. Josh Allen did, but there's also far more QB's who failed to improve their accuracy in any meaningful way after being drafted. Fields arm is more than sufficient for any play in Shanahan's playbook but he also has proven accuracy to all levels and was someone that had to rely upon his arm far more often to win games.

I don't think the upside between the two is that much different but I see Fields as the better QB right now. If you draft Lance you're taking him hoping that he can be as good as Fields is now and then get better in the future.

100% agree and assuming that Fields can't get better as well as if diagnosing defenses in the FCS will make it any easier to diagnose defenses in the NFL.

Originally posted by flynhayn15:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by flynhayn15:

Originally posted by 4ML:
Mahomes is more like a Lance runner. Power runner - hard to bring down due to his size and strength. Though I think Lance is faster. Also, I think Lance will be bigger. He's 230lbs at age 20. His frame is massive. I can see him put on 10-15lbs easily without losing speed.

Originally posted by 4ML:
Never really said that though. I said - Lance has similar ability of breaking tackles. Comparing their body size. Not saying Mahomes runs as often as those guys.

Uh....yeah you did. Don't try to back track now.

Yes, as far as running style. Lol you said Lance is like Lamar bc their running stats are similar which is laughable bc stats and style are two different things.

Lamar's style of running is nothing like Lance. Mahomes - when he chooses to run - is how Lance runs - though Lance is faster and will probably be much bigger in 2 years.

If you can't understand this basic distinction - then pointless to continue this discussion.

Actually.....

This is what I said.

"I would say Lance's college career is closer to Lamar Jackson's than it is to Mahomes."

You were the one that brought up running styles.

Mahomes threw the ball 1400 times in college. Lance threw the ball 288 times. To compare their college careers is ridiculous.

Never compared their college career.

Originally posted by Waterbear:
Yeah I keep hearing that Lance needs more time than Fields and I just don't buy it. You can argue that Fields is the better overall prospect and I have no issues with that but Lance is the most familiar with this kind of scheme, calling protections, memorizing long play calls, huddling, the short passing game, manipulating defenses with footwork, all stuff Fields did not do much of or at all in college.

I think the fanbase would generally feel better about Fields playing earlier because most people saw him play against elite competition while Lance wasn't even playing in D1. But that doesn't mean he's the most pro ready. Just look at Wentz and Goff coming out. Wentz was far more effective than Goff early on in his career when he didn't have the stats or play against the level of competition that Goff did.

Lance and Fields are two completely different prospects but if I had to guess who would fair better if they had to play early in year one it would be Wilson and Lance because they know the system period. That doesn't take away from the fact that Fields could be the best QB in this class.

I think it is easier to teach an accurate QB all of those things than it is to teach a QB with all of those things down how to be more accurate.