Justin Fields QB - Ohio State

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
I don't think that's fair, both of these guys have now gone to work with Beck, and surely he would just talk both up unless he clearly had a favourite. I think this has weight. It won't to Kyle, but maybe if Beck says the same it just might.

It wasn't Beck saying that, it was this guy:

https://qbcoachmcevoy.com/

One QB is a current client, the other is a former client. Of course you're going to talk up the guy that is paying you at the moment. But even that is besides the point, no matter the QB, unless they are a complete basketcase or a*****e, you'll always find someone singing their praises and talking about how they are just absolutely unbelievable, "the best I've ever seen" and all that stuff. Its hyperbole season yo!

I think you're minimizing it. Fields has been a long term client of QB takeover and QB Takeover works with current NFL players too. So, Fields can potentially come back and work with them. They'll not say Lance has higher ceiling if they didn't mean it. Doesn't mean they're right but that's their opinion.

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by flynhayn15:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by flynhayn15:

Originally posted by 4ML:
Mahomes is more like a Lance runner. Power runner - hard to bring down due to his size and strength. Though I think Lance is faster. Also, I think Lance will be bigger. He's 230lbs at age 20. His frame is massive. I can see him put on 10-15lbs easily without losing speed.

Originally posted by 4ML:
Never really said that though. I said - Lance has similar ability of breaking tackles. Comparing their body size. Not saying Mahomes runs as often as those guys.

Uh....yeah you did. Don't try to back track now.

Yes, as far as running style. Lol you said Lance is like Lamar bc their running stats are similar which is laughable bc stats and style are two different things.

Lamar's style of running is nothing like Lance. Mahomes - when he chooses to run - is how Lance runs - though Lance is faster and will probably be much bigger in 2 years.

If you can't understand this basic distinction - then pointless to continue this discussion.

Actually.....

This is what I said.

"I would say Lance's college career is closer to Lamar Jackson's than it is to Mahomes."

You were the one that brought up running styles.

Mahomes threw the ball 1400 times in college. Lance threw the ball 288 times. To compare their college careers is ridiculous.

Never compared their college career.

I know! You never read my post either then I guess, I said that, and you jump right into running styles.

I agree with you, Lamar and Lance have different running styles, but both were "running QBs" in college that averaged 6+ yds per carry and both need to work on accuracy in order to be great in the pros. There is nothing similar between Mahomes and Lance's college careers or college playing styles.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Embellish? It's about observable reality. I'm a fan of MY EYES, which is why I argue these things.

Let me guess: you think Jimmy and Stafford are interchangeable as well, right? Who was the one saying Watson and Jimmy are about the same? Was that you?

Mahomes is a great NFL player. No need to embellish his college days to pump him up. He doesn't need it.

He's a great NFL player and he was a great college player, drafted 10th overall, before Watson. Media personnel were wrong due to their bias against scheme (as were many people here).

I'm not pumping anyone. You are DOWNGRADING someone for some mysterious reason, and YOU are pumping up FIELDS, as evidenced by you claiming a deep pass where he had room to set his feet is the same as one thrown off the back foot and five yards deeper. Why you would feel the need to do that in the Fields thread where 90% of us (including me) want the 49ers to draft him is also a mystery.

It's really not what's happening though.

if you saw him as this elite prospect kudos to you but we have to look at the national media and general consensus when talking about what kind of prospect someone was.

Fields has been an elite prospect since HS. The only thing preventing him from being the top dog was being in the same state/class as Trevor Lawrence.

I know some people were high on Mahomes' potential but how many had him as a top 10 pick even before the draft? Even with people talking Fields down for some crazy reason after a covid season...how many have him going outside the top 10? Outside of Charlie Casserly that is. For reference Casserly had Mahomes going 32nd in his final mock draft in 2017.

He was drafted 10th. That means he was highly considered in the NFL. Even Shanahan thought he'd be there late in the first or 2nd (can't remember which, but he did say they liked him, but Cousins).

As for Fields, I think the main reason he's getting knocked is because Chris Simms likes Jones, and everyone assumes Shanahan does, and as a result, to make Jones more palatable, they have to knock the obvious choice: Fields.

I really don't wanna keep talking about Mahomes cuz who cares at this point but while the Chiefs were very high on him and took him 10th overall the QB class wasn't considered great. Trubisky was the top one selected and that's with one year of tape and Bears getting fleeced in their trade up.

Cleveland had a huge QB need. We had a QB need(granted we know what our plan was)

Jags had Blake Bortles
Jets had no real QB for the future
Bengals had Andy Dalton on the downswing of his career

Thats arguably 4-5 teams with no long term or decent QB answers who didn't take him. Another team drafted another QB.

If Mahomes was the prospect some are now saying he was he never would've made it to KC at 10.

Now of course we don't yet know where Fields will go...but I'd be shocked to see him get to 10.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Embellish? It's about observable reality. I'm a fan of MY EYES, which is why I argue these things.

Let me guess: you think Jimmy and Stafford are interchangeable as well, right? Who was the one saying Watson and Jimmy are about the same? Was that you?

Mahomes is a great NFL player. No need to embellish his college days to pump him up. He doesn't need it.

He's a great NFL player and he was a great college player, drafted 10th overall, before Watson. Media personnel were wrong due to their bias against scheme (as were many people here).

I'm not pumping anyone. You are DOWNGRADING someone for some mysterious reason, and YOU are pumping up FIELDS, as evidenced by you claiming a deep pass where he had room to set his feet is the same as one thrown off the back foot and five yards deeper. Why you would feel the need to do that in the Fields thread where 90% of us (including me) want the 49ers to draft him is also a mystery.

It's really not what's happening though.

if you saw him as this elite prospect kudos to you but we have to look at the national media and general consensus when talking about what kind of prospect someone was.

Fields has been an elite prospect since HS. The only thing preventing him from being the top dog was being in the same state/class as Trevor Lawrence.

I know some people were high on Mahomes' potential but how many had him as a top 10 pick even before the draft? Even with people talking Fields down for some crazy reason after a covid season...how many have him going outside the top 10? Outside of Charlie Casserly that is. For reference Casserly had Mahomes going 32nd in his final mock draft in 2017.

He was drafted 10th. That means he was highly considered in the NFL. Even Shanahan thought he'd be there late in the first or 2nd (can't remember which, but he did say they liked him, but Cousins).

As for Fields, I think the main reason he's getting knocked is because Chris Simms likes Jones, and everyone assumes Shanahan does, and as a result, to make Jones more palatable, they have to knock the obvious choice: Fields.

I really don't wanna keep talking about Mahomes cuz who cares at this point but while the Chiefs were very high on him and took him 10th overall the QB class wasn't considered great. Trubisky was the top one selected and that's with one year of tape and Bears getting fleeced in their trade up.

Cleveland had a huge QB need. We had a QB need(granted we know what our plan was)

Jags had Blake Bortles
Jets had no real QB for the future
Bengals had Andy Dalton on the downswing of his career

Thats arguably 4-5 teams with no long term or decent QB answers who didn't take him. Another team drafted another QB.

If Mahomes was the prospect some are now saying he was he never would've made it to KC at 10.

Now of course we don't yet know where Fields will go...but I'd be shocked to see him get to 10.

Now the pendulum has swung and every teams is overlooking the boring traits that Mahomes uses 50 times a game, and are now searching for the traits he uses 4 times a game.

I think the whole accuracy thing was kind of addressed in that video too. The coach from QB Takeover said - Fields has been getting private training on his mechanics for years. Lance got it for the first time this year and has already seen a big improvement.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

I doubt very seriously that the pick is Lance. He's good, but Lance has WHY too much development to be had. He needs at least 2 seasons to be bridged in. We have one more season with Jimmy. Fields will be the better pick as he'll actually be ready by mid season (not that he'll be the mid season starter). In 2022 he'll be hitting the ground running. So I can't see Lance being the pick.

Yeah I keep hearing that Lance needs more time than Fields and I just don't buy it. You can argue that Fields is the better overall prospect and I have no issues with that but Lance is the most familiar with this kind of scheme, calling protections, memorizing long play calls, huddling, the short passing game, manipulating defenses with footwork, all stuff Fields did not do much of or at all in college.

I think the fanbase would generally feel better about Fields playing earlier because most people saw him play against elite competition while Lance wasn't even playing in D1. But that doesn't mean he's the most pro ready. Just look at Wentz and Goff coming out. Wentz was far more effective than Goff early on in his career when he didn't have the stats or play against the level of competition that Goff did.

Lance and Fields are two completely different prospects but if I had to guess who would fair better if they had to play early in year one it would be Wilson and Lance because they know the system period. That doesn't take away from the fact that Fields could be the best QB in this class.

Lance running that NDSU offense doesn't somehow make him more prepared than Fields to learn Kyle's offense. Lance had 314 or something around there pass attempts in his college career. A college career played in the FCS for the best team in that division.

I have no doubt the kid is smart and he's got a good base to learn from but Kyle's offense is a challenge for seasoned pros like Matt Ryan who had 100 NFL starts under his belt before Kyle got there and said it took him a good year to get it. Obviously every guy is different but point is having more snaps under center doesn't guarantee someone is ready to take on Kyle's system as a rookie.

Originally posted by 4ML:
I think the whole accuracy thing was kind of addressed in that video too. The coach from QB Takeover said - Fields has been getting private training on his mechanics for years. Lance got it for the first time this year and has already seen a big improvement.

Wish we could see a demonstration of that in actual games, but we can't. I remember how often we heard about Kaepernick showing amazing improvement in his mechanics and accuracy each spring and each fall he reverted back to his old habits.

Basically, game film or it didn't happen.

Originally posted by 4ML:
I think the whole accuracy thing was kind of addressed in that video too. The coach from QB Takeover said - Fields has been getting private training on his mechanics for years. Lance got it for the first time this year and has already seen a big improvement.

In what game? Or are we going to assume his accuracy is all good in actual game situations?

That's certainly encouraging but he wouldn't be the first QB to work on his mechanics but the accuracy doesn't magically get better. Josh Allen is one, but it took him 3 years and it's a tough ask.

Originally posted by flynhayn15:
I know! You never read my post either then I guess, I said that, and you jump right into running styles.

I agree with you, Lamar and Lance have different running styles, but both were "running QBs" in college that averaged 6+ yds per carry and both need to work on accuracy in order to be great in the pros. There is nothing similar between Mahomes and Lance's college careers or college playing styles.

Misunderstanding then. Again - college word is not what I used. They were in completely different offenses. Their arm strength, throwing power off balance, running style (as in theyre big and can run over ppl when they run) and mental aptitude - as in learning complex offense quickly (Mahomes with Reid and Lance given full freedoms to run ND St offense).

Don't think I said anything complicated. There are similarities. I started my post with - Lance's comp is not Mahomes but there are some similarities that I feel can take Shanahan's offense to another level like Mahomes did with Reid's. Mental aptitude is huge here.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by 4ML:
I think the whole accuracy thing was kind of addressed in that video too. The coach from QB Takeover said - Fields has been getting private training on his mechanics for years. Lance got it for the first time this year and has already seen a big improvement.

Wish we could see a demonstration of that in actual games, but we can't. I remember how often we heard about Kaepernick showing amazing improvement in his mechanics and accuracy each spring and each fall he reverted back to his old habits.

Basically, game film or it didn't happen.

I wouldn't say that - especially when season was canceled. That's where I hope Shanahan does his homework.

Again - draft is not only about what you've done - it's also a projection. Good thing is - Shanahan has access to these coaches and he has to figure out how much he can rely on what they're saying and what to believe. That's why I think Lance pro day is huge for him bc he's the one no one saw last year.

Originally posted by 4ML:
I think the whole accuracy thing was kind of addressed in that video too. The coach from QB Takeover said - Fields has been getting private training on his mechanics for years. Lance got it for the first time this year and has already seen a big improvement.

No one should trust what a private QB coach is saying publicly about a client.

Originally posted by Jcool:
No one should trust what a private QB coach is saying publicly about a client.

I saw the film and once I saw the trade we made I knew who it was for.

Fields

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by 4ML:
I think the whole accuracy thing was kind of addressed in that video too. The coach from QB Takeover said - Fields has been getting private training on his mechanics for years. Lance got it for the first time this year and has already seen a big improvement.

Wish we could see a demonstration of that in actual games, but we can't. I remember how often we heard about Kaepernick showing amazing improvement in his mechanics and accuracy each spring and each fall he reverted back to his old habits.

Basically, game film or it didn't happen.

I wouldn't say that - especially when season was canceled. That's where I hope Shanahan does his homework.

Again - draft is not only about what you've done - it's also a projection. Good thing is - Shanahan has access to these coaches and he has to figure out how much he can rely on what they're saying and what to believe. That's why I think Lance pro day is huge for him bc he's the one no one saw last year.

We better not make our decisions off pro days or bad things will be in our future. When we have the opportunity to draft a guy who has shown great accuracy in game situations and has the elite potential... you take him. Not the guy who still has to prove he can do those things in game situations.

I like this, had an opportunity to scramble, pick up a few yards, go back out there on 3rd and 7, 3rd and 6 maybe, instead he's still got his eyes down the field, still waiting, looking for the opening, waiting until the last second and throws a perfectly placed ball while still moving.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Justin Fields' talent on full display🔥

Which team will draft the @OhioStateFB QB? pic.twitter.com/dYhZ9BNnNk

— PFF (@PFF) April 10, 2021

I love this, had an opportunity to scramble, pick up a few yards, go back out there on 3rd and 7, 3rd and 6 maybe, instead he's still got his eyes down the field, still waiting, looking for the opening, waiting until the last second and lets it rip.

And this was also the first snap he took right after hurting his knee that game... Just like how he balled out after breaking his ribs in the Clemson game. He has toughness and an It-factor that you just can't teach that has shown up on film so many times. This is the edge I give on choosing him over Lance and even Wilson.