If all the top 4 QB's are gone by the Niners pick, would you trade down?

Originally posted by Rathof44:

Originally posted by illinois9er:

Originally posted by dmax:

God no...you take the best cb there is at that spot

Reaching for a CB is a recipe for disaster. From everything I'm seeing Farley and Surtain will be gone by our pick and there's a drop off to guys like Horn and Wade

I like Derion Kendrick, he's rising but could be there with their second pick.

I didn't mention him because of his physical profile. Hopefully they're past CBs having to be 6'2"

Bottom line for me: We need to upgrade the QB position, because Jimmy isn't going to carry this team (and he DIDN'T in 2019: Football Outsiders had him ranked TWENTY NINTH on third down Air Less than Expected - that is, the length of the passer's throw minus the yards needed for a third down. In fact, Jimmy was negative here. That means Kyle schemes his success for him most of the time. NOTE: this was in the range of Brissett and Rudolph and Haskins.).

HOWEVER, the team can win with a QB that needs a coach to scheme for him like Jimmy, which means unless a FQB falls to us, we have more important weaknesses to shore up. Because of Kyle's genius, we can scrape by and win games with a QB who can execute gimicks and who depends on play-action for success. Would it be better to have a true Franchise QB who can stand in the pocket and dominate a defense? Sure. But if one doesn't fall to us, we have to figure out the offensive line, pass rush and secondary.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Bottom line for me: We need to upgrade the QB position, because Jimmy isn't going to carry this team (and he DIDN'T in 2019: Football Outsiders had him ranked TWENTY NINTH on third down Air Less than Expected - that is, the length of the passer's throw minus the yards needed for a third down. In fact, Jimmy was negative here. That means Kyle schemes his success for him most of the time. NOTE: this was in the range of Brissett and Rudolph and Haskins.).

HOWEVER, the team can win with a QB that needs a coach to scheme for him like Jimmy, which means unless a FQB falls to us, we have more important weaknesses to shore up. Because of Kyle's genius, we can scrape by and win games with a QB who can execute gimicks and who depends on play-action for success. Would it be better to have a true Franchise QB who can stand in the pocket and dominate a defense? Sure. But if one doesn't fall to us, we have to figure out the offensive line, pass rush and secondary.

I don't think pass rush is as huge a need as we are led to believe. If we resign Hyder he and Bosa would be pretty nice combo outside. Should push Arndtead inside with Kinlaw at the very least on passing downs. Depth at the position would be nice but shouldn't need a 1st or 2nd rounder for that.

If we sign a CB and S in FA, JC Jackson and Keanu Neal would be nice. Then our secondary is upgraded. But again adding depth would be nice.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Bottom line for me: We need to upgrade the QB position, because Jimmy isn't going to carry this team (and he DIDN'T in 2019: Football Outsiders had him ranked TWENTY NINTH on third down Air Less than Expected - that is, the length of the passer's throw minus the yards needed for a third down. In fact, Jimmy was negative here. That means Kyle schemes his success for him most of the time. NOTE: this was in the range of Brissett and Rudolph and Haskins.).

HOWEVER, the team can win with a QB that needs a coach to scheme for him like Jimmy, which means unless a FQB falls to us, we have more important weaknesses to shore up. Because of Kyle's genius, we can scrape by and win games with a QB who can execute gimicks and who depends on play-action for success. Would it be better to have a true Franchise QB who can stand in the pocket and dominate a defense? Sure. But if one doesn't fall to us, we have to figure out the offensive line, pass rush and secondary.

I don't think pass rush is as huge a need as we are led to believe. If we resign Hyder he and Bosa would be pretty nice combo outside. Should push Arndtead inside with Kinlaw at the very least on passing downs. Depth at the position would be nice but shouldn't need a 1st or 2nd rounder for that.

If we sign a CB and S in FA, JC Jackson and Keanu Neal would be nice. Then our secondary is upgraded. But again adding depth would be nice.

How much is JC Jackson going to cost? Isn't he one of the top DB free agents? I like him a lot but figured he'd be too expensive.

If there is a first rate center available at their mid-first round pick, I'd do that.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Bottom line for me: We need to upgrade the QB position, because Jimmy isn't going to carry this team (and he DIDN'T in 2019: Football Outsiders had him ranked TWENTY NINTH on third down Air Less than Expected - that is, the length of the passer's throw minus the yards needed for a third down. In fact, Jimmy was negative here. That means Kyle schemes his success for him most of the time. NOTE: this was in the range of Brissett and Rudolph and Haskins.).

HOWEVER, the team can win with a QB that needs a coach to scheme for him like Jimmy, which means unless a FQB falls to us, we have more important weaknesses to shore up. Because of Kyle's genius, we can scrape by and win games with a QB who can execute gimicks and who depends on play-action for success. Would it be better to have a true Franchise QB who can stand in the pocket and dominate a defense? Sure. But if one doesn't fall to us, we have to figure out the offensive line, pass rush and secondary.

I don't think pass rush is as huge a need as we are led to believe. If we resign Hyder he and Bosa would be pretty nice combo outside. Should push Arndtead inside with Kinlaw at the very least on passing downs. Depth at the position would be nice but shouldn't need a 1st or 2nd rounder for that.

If we sign a CB and S in FA, JC Jackson and Keanu Neal would be nice. Then our secondary is upgraded. But again adding depth would be nice.

I just don't know if we'll have the cap space for someone like Neal. We probably won't even have the cap space to keep our guys here. Sherman is gone. Tartt is probably gone. Witherspoon may well be gone. K'Waun Williams is an unrestricted free agent. Verrett needs to be a priority, but he's going to ask for a good chunk of money most likely. Then on offense we've got to re-sign Williams and Juice Check.

How many of those secondary players will be here next year? I don't even know if we can re-sign more than two of them.

Originally posted by 49erphan:
If there is a first rate center available at their mid-first round pick, I'd do that.

Ew gross. The last time a center was taken earlier than the 18th pick was 1999. Heck, I just looked clear back to 1980, and only once has a guy been drafted 16th.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by 49erphan:
If there is a first rate center available at their mid-first round pick, I'd do that.

Ew gross. The last time a center was taken earlier than the 18th pick was 1999. Heck, I just looked clear back to 1980, and only once has a guy been drafted 16th.

Okay, thanks for the information. Bad idea I guess.

Originally posted by 49erphan:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by 49erphan:
If there is a first rate center available at their mid-first round pick, I'd do that.

Ew gross. The last time a center was taken earlier than the 18th pick was 1999. Heck, I just looked clear back to 1980, and only once has a guy been drafted 16th.

Okay, thanks for the information. Bad idea I guess.

Lol maybe. But what if the center is a Hall of Famer?

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by 49erphan:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by 49erphan:
If there is a first rate center available at their mid-first round pick, I'd do that.

Ew gross. The last time a center was taken earlier than the 18th pick was 1999. Heck, I just looked clear back to 1980, and only once has a guy been drafted 16th.

Okay, thanks for the information. Bad idea I guess.

Lol maybe. But what if the center is a Hall of Famer?

Crazy. Considering the Center is one of the most important positions, literally the pivot of the offense.

Originally posted by richterkbelmont:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by 49erphan:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by 49erphan:
If there is a first rate center available at their mid-first round pick, I'd do that.

Ew gross. The last time a center was taken earlier than the 18th pick was 1999. Heck, I just looked clear back to 1980, and only once has a guy been drafted 16th.

Okay, thanks for the information. Bad idea I guess.

Lol maybe. But what if the center is a Hall of Famer?

Crazy. Considering the Center is one of the most important positions, literally the pivot of the offense.

Yeah, but then think about who is going before centers: quarterbacks, cornerbacks, pass rushers and left tackles. We've seen first hand what a great pass rusher can do two years ago, and just this year we've seen what having a practice squad starting cornerback can do (Dolphins game).

Originally posted by pdizo916:

BPA regardless of position...(minus kicker and punter)

So you want a Long Snapper?

Originally posted by Howlett49:

Originally posted by pdizo916:
BPA regardless of position...(minus kicker and punter)

So you want a Long Snapper?

The 2002 giants might have wanted one.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by 9moon:
I only have 3 QBs listed on my 1st round list.. Trevor - Wilson - Fields.. Fields scares me cause he is talented but I just think that he's not ready... he may end up another Haskins especially how everyone is trying to get in his head by making him a very GOOD QB already instead of a very GOOD talent at the position.

PLUS, I'm not convince that QB is actually our problem.. Jimmy just needs to stay healthy.. we all would like him to put up Aaron or Mahomes type numbers but the fact is, if he can just be another Troy Aikman type of QB, then we have our team a future HOF...

I'm pretty sure Marino will trade all his numbers for Aikman's 3 rings.

Aikman wasn't afraid to give the plamymaker a chance. Or Alvin Harper. He didn't just force feed Novacek over the middle.

And in fairness to Jimmy, he has rarely had a consistent play maker other than Kittle.

I like Bourne but how often have we lamented drops. Deebo got better but early on as a rookie, quite a few drops. Marquise Goodwin? Dante Pettis? There's a reason why they got Sanders last year and there is a reason why all of a sudden the passing offense opened up more than it had likely all year.

As it is, people want to act like Jimmy is the sole problem, or even the main one. I and everyone would agree he isn't elite and likely won't be. And yes, he's been hurt. So too have his targets. Next year at this time if it goes like this year people will be complaining about Deebo being a "bust" because he can't stay on the field. Heck, Kittle himself two years in a row missing time and no doubt in large part because of his playing style which we do love. But that is the apparent downside.

The key part to being a trusted playmaker is taking advantage of the opportunities given to you. Making the catch almost every single time and showing that it it is 50/50 between you and a defender there is no way in hell that defender is going to get the ball or keep you from making the catch... even if he does... it's the attitude.

Otherwise, yeah, maybe you force feed Novacek over the middle. Or Kittle as the case may be.

Originally posted by 49erphan:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by 49erphan:

If there is a first rate center available at their mid-first round pick, I'd do that.

Ew gross. The last time a center was taken earlier than the 18th pick was 1999. Heck, I just looked clear back to 1980, and only once has a guy been drafted 16th.

Okay, thanks for the information. Bad idea I guess.

Just because it hasn't been done is no reason not to do it. It is probably the position of most need. It doesn't matter if we have Jimmy next year, a vet from another team or a draft pick, he is going to need more time than our qb's got this year. The question really is, how good is the Center we could get with the 1st rounder, as against the quality of the guys likely to be available subsequently. Then we can likewise assess the other main needs on the same basis.