The Fatal Fourway: Wilson, Lance, Fields, and Jones; Enter and declare your allegiance!

Originally posted by hubbyt:
Fields is who I want them to take. Take all those natural gifts and coach him up Shanny! After moving up to #3 I wouldn't play it safe by taking Mac Jones. Swing for the upside and get Fields. There are certain things Fields can do that Mac Jones will never be able to do but that isn't the case in reverse. Fields can learn the playbook and reads over time.

Perhaps it's not the case that he NEVER will be able to do these things, but the odds based upon the entirety of the history of NFL quarterbacks suggests he probably won't ever be able to do some things as well as Jones will. Despite what guys like NY say, the UNDENIABLE RECORD OF NFL HISTORY suggests that very few guys ever improve dramatically in the vision related, pocket instinct related, and high level football IQ related aspects of the position. There are exceptions. But it is a rarity. Less rare than guys getting dramatically faster or a much stronger arm, but it's still rare.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by hubbyt:
Fields is who I want them to take. Take all those natural gifts and coach him up Shanny! After moving up to #3 I wouldn't play it safe by taking Mac Jones. Swing for the upside and get Fields. There are certain things Fields can do that Mac Jones will never be able to do but that isn't the case in reverse. Fields can learn the playbook and reads over time.

Perhaps it's not the case that he NEVER will be able to do these things, but the odds based upon the entirety of the history of NFL quarterbacks suggests he probably won't ever be able to do some things as well as Jones will. Despite what guys like NY say, the UNDENIABLE RECORD OF NFL HISTORY suggests that very few guys ever improve dramatically in the vision related, pocket instinct related, and high level football IQ related aspects of the position. There are exceptions. But it is a rarity. Less rare than guys getting dramatically faster or a much stronger arm, but it's still rare.

Idk if thats valid or not. Not saying its not true but I just dont know. And how would you measure it?

Originally posted by hubbyt:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by hubbyt:
Fields is who I want them to take. Take all those natural gifts and coach him up Shanny! After moving up to #3 I wouldn't play it safe by taking Mac Jones. Swing for the upside and get Fields. There are certain things Fields can do that Mac Jones will never be able to do but that isn't the case in reverse. Fields can learn the playbook and reads over time.

Perhaps it's not the case that he NEVER will be able to do these things, but the odds based upon the entirety of the history of NFL quarterbacks suggests he probably won't ever be able to do some things as well as Jones will. Despite what guys like NY say, the UNDENIABLE RECORD OF NFL HISTORY suggests that very few guys ever improve dramatically in the vision related, pocket instinct related, and high level football IQ related aspects of the position. There are exceptions. But it is a rarity. Less rare than guys getting dramatically faster or a much stronger arm, but it's still rare.

Idk if thats valid or not. Not saying its not true but I just dont know. And how would you measure it?

How good someone is at reading defenses, seeing blitzes, finding open guys (something Jimmy is garbage at) isn't quantifiable. They call it "intangibles." But whatever the hell these things are called, how many QBs actually get much better at it? There are hundreds and hundreds of examples of guys who don't. The ones who do usually do so well after their rookie contract.

That's not an explanation of why, however.

Nor is it the end all be all.

If MAC JONES wasn't really good at some of these things, he'd go undrafted. If Justin Fields isn't actually great at these things, he could still end up a Pro Bowler. That's what an elite arm will do for you. And if you pair with the ability to be right even when he's wrong, like when missing a blitz read, the sky is the limit EVEN IF Fields doesn't get much better at these things (which apparently require the person pointing out to be racist).

But in the event that Fields is one of those guys who breaks the pattern of the standard NFL quarterback and dramatically improves in these areas, he's going straight to the Hall of Fame, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

So when someone says Fields has that high ceiling, that's it. Jones is NEVER EVER in a million years going to develop the things Fields is great at. Hell will freeze over before Jones can move like that or throw like that.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
How good someone is at reading defenses, seeing blitzes, finding open guys (something Jimmy is garbage at) isn't quantifiable. They call it "intangibles." But whatever the hell these things are called, how many QBs actually get much better at it? There are hundreds and hundreds of examples of guys who don't. The ones who do usually do so well after their rookie contract.

That's not an explanation of why, however.

Nor is it the end all be all.

If MAC JONES wasn't really good at some of these things, he'd go undrafted. If Justin Fields isn't actually great at these things, he could still end up a Pro Bowler. That's what an elite arm will do for you. And if you pair with the ability to be right even when he's wrong, like when missing a blitz read, the sky is the limit EVEN IF Fields doesn't get much better at these things (which apparently require the person pointing out to be racist).

But in the event that Fields is one of those guys who breaks the pattern of the standard NFL quarterback and dramatically improves in these areas, he's going straight to the Hall of Fame, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

So when someone says Fields has that high ceiling, that's it. Jones is NEVER EVER in a million years going to develop the things Fields is great at. Hell will freeze over before Jones can move like that or throw like that.

I dipped my toe in the Fields pool two weeks ago. His pro day got me sitting on the side of the pool. You are trying your best to push me in. Lol

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
How good someone is at reading defenses, seeing blitzes, finding open guys (something Jimmy is garbage at) isn't quantifiable. They call it "intangibles." But whatever the hell these things are called, how many QBs actually get much better at it? There are hundreds and hundreds of examples of guys who don't. The ones who do usually do so well after their rookie contract.

That's not an explanation of why, however.

Nor is it the end all be all.

If MAC JONES wasn't really good at some of these things, he'd go undrafted. If Justin Fields isn't actually great at these things, he could still end up a Pro Bowler. That's what an elite arm will do for you. And if you pair with the ability to be right even when he's wrong, like when missing a blitz read, the sky is the limit EVEN IF Fields doesn't get much better at these things (which apparently require the person pointing out to be racist).

But in the event that Fields is one of those guys who breaks the pattern of the standard NFL quarterback and dramatically improves in these areas, he's going straight to the Hall of Fame, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

So when someone says Fields has that high ceiling, that's it. Jones is NEVER EVER in a million years going to develop the things Fields is great at. Hell will freeze over before Jones can move like that or throw like that.

I dipped my toe in the Fields pool two weeks ago. His pro day got me sitting on the side of the pool. You are trying your best to push me in. Lol

Shanahan has been scheming for someone who's mediocre at processing and finding the open man for YEARS. And this guy (Jimmy) can't even consistently throw deep balls. We went to a Super Bowl with him.

Justin Fields is not any worse at those things than Jimmy. Jimmy might be better at recognizing blitzes, but Fields can escape them.

So imagine a world in which Fields comes to the NFL and barely progresses. And imagine Shanahan scheming to compensate. WORST CASE SCENARIO we're still an offense to be feared.

Best case scenario? Well, I said it in the previous post.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Shanahan has been scheming for someone who's mediocre at processing and finding the open man for YEARS. And this guy (Jimmy) can't even consistently throw deep balls. We went to a Super Bowl with him.

Justin Fields is not any worse at those things than Jimmy. Jimmy might be better at recognizing blitzes, but Fields can escape them.

So imagine a world in which Fields comes to the NFL and barely progresses. And imagine Shanahan scheming to compensate. WORST CASE SCENARIO we're still an offense to be feared.

Best case scenario? Well, I said it in the previous post.

You're very convincing. I'll give you that

I have reservations about every qb but Lawrence, so I hope we pick the one that Shanny can develop the best. I'd love the see the Wunderlich scores. It may shed some light on who will learn the system the easiest and maximize Shanny's playbook.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Shanahan has been scheming for someone who's mediocre at processing and finding the open man for YEARS. And this guy (Jimmy) can't even consistently throw deep balls. We went to a Super Bowl with him.

Justin Fields is not any worse at those things than Jimmy. Jimmy might be better at recognizing blitzes, but Fields can escape them.

So imagine a world in which Fields comes to the NFL and barely progresses. And imagine Shanahan scheming to compensate. WORST CASE SCENARIO we're still an offense to be feared.

Best case scenario? Well, I said it in the previous post.

You're very convincing. I'll give you that

I know this sounds trite.. but the other big thing you get with Fields is heart. Dude had his ribs busted and still played the rest of the game. Dude sprinted the entire field, over taking a WR and a CB to throw a block. Dude just wills his team to succeed.

I'm not saying the other guys don't have heart. They probably do. But it doesn't jump of the screen to me the way it does with Fields.

Usually you have to decide between things like measurable physical traits, collegiate success, and heart. But with Fields he has it all.

He seems like such an obvious pick, who is only not obvious because he's been in the spotlight so long. Don't overthink it.

Originally posted by TheFunkyChicken:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Shanahan has been scheming for someone who's mediocre at processing and finding the open man for YEARS. And this guy (Jimmy) can't even consistently throw deep balls. We went to a Super Bowl with him.

Justin Fields is not any worse at those things than Jimmy. Jimmy might be better at recognizing blitzes, but Fields can escape them.

So imagine a world in which Fields comes to the NFL and barely progresses. And imagine Shanahan scheming to compensate. WORST CASE SCENARIO we're still an offense to be feared.

Best case scenario? Well, I said it in the previous post.

You're very convincing. I'll give you that

I know this sounds trite.. but the other big thing you get with Fields is heart. Dude had his ribs busted and still played the rest of the game. Dude sprinted the entire field, over taking a WR and a CB to throw a block. Dude just wills his team to succeed.

I'm not saying the other guys don't have heart. They probably do. But it doesn't jump of the screen to me the way it does with Fields.

Usually you have to decide between things like measurable physical traits, collegiate success, and heart. But with Fields he has it all.

He seems like such an obvious pick, who is only not obvious because he's been in the spotlight so long. Don't overthink it.

Agreed..im very concerned that Shanny is gonna blow this pick. Fields is tough as nails. Played hurt against Bama in the nati. Needs to take less sacks but other than that he should be the pick if Shanny isnt crazy lol.

Originally posted by TheFunkyChicken:
I know this sounds trite.. but the other big thing you get with Fields is heart. Dude had his ribs busted and still played the rest of the game. Dude sprinted the entire field, over taking a WR and a CB to throw a block. Dude just wills his team to succeed.

I'm not saying the other guys don't have heart. They probably do. But it doesn't jump of the screen to me the way it does with Fields.

Usually you have to decide between things like measurable physical traits, collegiate success, and heart. But with Fields he has it all.

He seems like such an obvious pick, who is only not obvious because he's been in the spotlight so long. Don't overthink it.

Make no mistake. Jones would still be my pick. I just wouldn't hate the Fields pick as much as I would have a few days ago

Fields: f**k yeah!
Wilson: Ok! Let's go!
Lance: ehh.. ok
Jones: f**k you kyle

Originally posted by DaBeegDeek:
Fields: f**k yeah!
Wilson: f**king Jets are f**king dumb! Let's f**king go!
Lance: ehh.. ok
Jones: f**k you kyle

FTFY

We SHOULD take Fields. But you know what situations always come out: profiling.

it all comes back to Kyle's profile. The guy has Mac Jones locked in. That's Kyle's profile.

Kyle already went through not wanting to draft RG3 when his owner ended up drafting him. What happened? RG3 got WAS to the playoffs and Kyle hated it. He felt RG3 was limiting the potential of his offense.

What did Kyle do when we had the #2 pick in a draft with Mahomes and Watson? He traded back to #3 and picked an undersized DT.

At the end of the day, if the patterns don't tell you what Kyle wants, then we are fools.

1. He went to the playoffs with RG3 and hated it.
2. He picked an undersized DT over Mahomes and Watson when we had Hoyer as our starter.
3. This is the first draft where he has a chance to get a true pocket QB.

He probably should get Fields, but all his patterns point directly to Jones. Any investigator knows he going to pick Jones. It is what he has always wanted for his offense.

The only other sense I can make of all this is that Kyle going to make a big trade to go after Wilson.

Like the NE coach, Kyle never drafts BPA. Doesn't end well.

Yes, we drafted some solid players, but we passed on elite ones.