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Originally posted by Second2Nunley:
I have reservations about every qb but Lawrence, so I hope we pick the one that Shanny can develop the best. I'd love the see the Wunderlich scores. It may shed some light on who will learn the system the easiest and maximize Shanny's playbook.
Originally posted by Joecool:
We SHOULD take Fields. But you know what situations always come out: profiling.
it all comes back to Kyle's profile. The guy has Mac Jones locked in. That's Kyle's profile.
Kyle already went through not wanting to draft RG3 when his owner ended up drafting him. What happened? RG3 got WAS to the playoffs and Kyle hated it. He felt RG3 was limiting the potential of his offense.
What did Kyle do when we had the #2 pick in a draft with Mahomes and Watson? He traded back to #3 and picked an undersized DT.
At the end of the day, if the patterns don't tell you what Kyle wants, then we are fools.
1. He went to the playoffs with RG3 and hated it.
2. He picked an undersized DT over Mahomes and Watson when we had Hoyer as our starter.
3. This is the first draft where he has a chance to get a true pocket QB.
He probably should get Fields, but all his patterns point directly to Jones. Any investigator knows he going to pick Jones. It is what he has always wanted for his offense.
Originally posted by TheGore49er:
Originally posted by Second2Nunley:
I have reservations about every qb but Lawrence, so I hope we pick the one that Shanny can develop the best. I'd love the see the Wunderlich scores. It may shed some light on who will learn the system the easiest and maximize Shanny's playbook.
Even if Wunderlich.
And that test has always been one of the biggest jokes. QBs who've had great careers have score poorly on it, and QBs who scored high on it have had bad careers.
Originally posted by Joecool:
We SHOULD take Fields. But you know what situations always come out: profiling.
it all comes back to Kyle's profile. The guy has Mac Jones locked in. That's Kyle's profile.
Kyle already went through not wanting to draft RG3 when his owner ended up drafting him. What happened? RG3 got WAS to the playoffs and Kyle hated it. He felt RG3 was limiting the potential of his offense.
What did Kyle do when we had the #2 pick in a draft with Mahomes and Watson? He traded back to #3 and picked an undersized DT.
At the end of the day, if the patterns don't tell you what Kyle wants, then we are fools.
1. He went to the playoffs with RG3 and hated it.
2. He picked an undersized DT over Mahomes and Watson when we had Hoyer as our starter.
3. This is the first draft where he has a chance to get a true pocket QB.
He probably should get Fields, but all his patterns point directly to Jones. Any investigator knows he going to pick Jones. It is what he has always wanted for his offense.
Originally posted by Joecool:I'm with you. Kyle's biggest fault is over valuing players because he sees them as a fit for what he wants to do, and going too far to get these players. Sometimes he's right and it works out. But sometimes he's way off and it's devastating.
Like the NE coach, Kyle never drafts BPA. Doesn't end well.
Yes, we drafted some solid players, but we passed on elite ones.
Originally posted by TheFunkyChicken:
Originally posted by Joecool:I'm with you. Kyle's biggest fault is over valuing players because he sees them as a fit for what he wants to do, and going too far to get these players. Sometimes he's right and it works out. But sometimes he's way off and it's devastating.
Like the NE coach, Kyle never drafts BPA. Doesn't end well.
Yes, we drafted some solid players, but we passed on elite ones.
Look at our WRs. We traded up to get Pettis. Devastated because we passed on good players to give up more to get a terrible player. Even when it works out, like with Deebo, you still have to wonder if we would have been better off taking the better player (Metcalf) instead of the supposedly better fit.
But sometimes he surprises us with an Aiyuk or Kittle.
Sometimes he's easy to read. Everyone knew we were taking Deebo. Other times he's very secretive.
I just hope he's been targeting Fields the whole time and is intentionally throwing people off.
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by TheFunkyChicken:
Originally posted by Joecool:I'm with you. Kyle's biggest fault is over valuing players because he sees them as a fit for what he wants to do, and going too far to get these players. Sometimes he's right and it works out. But sometimes he's way off and it's devastating.
Like the NE coach, Kyle never drafts BPA. Doesn't end well.
Yes, we drafted some solid players, but we passed on elite ones.
Look at our WRs. We traded up to get Pettis. Devastated because we passed on good players to give up more to get a terrible player. Even when it works out, like with Deebo, you still have to wonder if we would have been better off taking the better player (Metcalf) instead of the supposedly better fit.
But sometimes he surprises us with an Aiyuk or Kittle.
Sometimes he's easy to read. Everyone knew we were taking Deebo. Other times he's very secretive.
I just hope he's been targeting Fields the whole time and is intentionally throwing people off.
Well, that's my hope too.
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by hubbyt:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:Idk if thats valid or not. Not saying its not true but I just dont know. And how would you measure it?
Originally posted by hubbyt:
Fields is who I want them to take. Take all those natural gifts and coach him up Shanny! After moving up to #3 I wouldn't play it safe by taking Mac Jones. Swing for the upside and get Fields. There are certain things Fields can do that Mac Jones will never be able to do but that isn't the case in reverse. Fields can learn the playbook and reads over time.
Perhaps it's not the case that he NEVER will be able to do these things, but the odds based upon the entirety of the history of NFL quarterbacks suggests he probably won't ever be able to do some things as well as Jones will. Despite what guys like NY say, the UNDENIABLE RECORD OF NFL HISTORY suggests that very few guys ever improve dramatically in the vision related, pocket instinct related, and high level football IQ related aspects of the position. There are exceptions. But it is a rarity. Less rare than guys getting dramatically faster or a much stronger arm, but it's still rare.
How good someone is at reading defenses, seeing blitzes, finding open guys (something Jimmy is garbage at) isn't quantifiable. They call it "intangibles." But whatever the hell these things are called, how many QBs actually get much better at it? There are hundreds and hundreds of examples of guys who don't. The ones who do usually do so well after their rookie contract.
That's not an explanation of why, however.
Nor is it the end all be all.
If MAC JONES wasn't really good at some of these things, he'd go undrafted. If Justin Fields isn't actually great at these things, he could still end up a Pro Bowler. That's what an elite arm will do for you. And if you pair with the ability to be right even when he's wrong, like when missing a blitz read, the sky is the limit EVEN IF Fields doesn't get much better at these things (which apparently require the person pointing out to be racist).
But in the event that Fields is one of those guys who breaks the pattern of the standard NFL quarterback and dramatically improves in these areas, he's going straight to the Hall of Fame, do not pass go, do not collect $200.
So when someone says Fields has that high ceiling, that's it. Jones is NEVER EVER in a million years going to develop the things Fields is great at. Hell will freeze over before Jones can move like that or throw like that.
Originally posted by TheFunkyChicken:
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by TheFunkyChicken:
Originally posted by Joecool:I'm with you. Kyle's biggest fault is over valuing players because he sees them as a fit for what he wants to do, and going too far to get these players. Sometimes he's right and it works out. But sometimes he's way off and it's devastating.
Like the NE coach, Kyle never drafts BPA. Doesn't end well.
Yes, we drafted some solid players, but we passed on elite ones.
Look at our WRs. We traded up to get Pettis. Devastated because we passed on good players to give up more to get a terrible player. Even when it works out, like with Deebo, you still have to wonder if we would have been better off taking the better player (Metcalf) instead of the supposedly better fit.
But sometimes he surprises us with an Aiyuk or Kittle.
Sometimes he's easy to read. Everyone knew we were taking Deebo. Other times he's very secretive.
I just hope he's been targeting Fields the whole time and is intentionally throwing people off.
Well, that's my hope too.
It does make some sense. Fields has the longest connection to Shanahan. For the longest time he was viewed as a lock to be taken either first or second. But suddenly it looks like he could be available with the third pick AND the third pick becomes available. All they have to do is make sure he doesn't get picked second. Initiate the Mack Jones head fake!!
Or Mack Jones is the Deebo of this draft. Everyone knows we'll take him and it's not a head fake at all.
This will be the longest month ever....
Originally posted by iLLEST209ER:
I've read reports that its down to Lance and Jones. Is this legitimate interest, or a smokescreen for Fields?
Originally posted by Joecool:
We SHOULD take Fields. But you know what situations always come out: profiling.
it all comes back to Kyle's profile. The guy has Mac Jones locked in. That's Kyle's profile.
Kyle already went through not wanting to draft RG3 when his owner ended up drafting him. What happened? RG3 got WAS to the playoffs and Kyle hated it. He felt RG3 was limiting the potential of his offense.
What did Kyle do when we had the #2 pick in a draft with Mahomes and Watson? He traded back to #3 and picked an undersized DT.
At the end of the day, if the patterns don't tell you what Kyle wants, then we are fools.
1. He went to the playoffs with RG3 and hated it.
2. He picked an undersized DT over Mahomes and Watson when we had Hoyer as our starter.
3. This is the first draft where he has a chance to get a true pocket QB.
He probably should get Fields, but all his patterns point directly to Jones. Any investigator knows he going to pick Jones. It is what he has always wanted for his offense.
Forget about Griffin and Dan Snyder clashing with Kyle and Mike for a second and just keep it on the football field. Griffin came from an unorthodox spread system at Baylor, and despite the hype, Kyle truly had no idea how the supreme athlete with a strong arm would fit into his play-action passing attack that demanded accuracy and processing. So to bridge the NFL gap and give him a chance for success right away, Shanahan simplified his system and ran a non-traditional offense, where Griffin won a rookie of the year trophy and Washington won the NFC East in 2012. A year later thinking he was invincible, Griffin withered in the Shanahan's traditional offense in 2013 — something Shanahan told me RGIII and his father demanded he play in because they both thought he could handle it.
I've got zero involvement in that...I definitely made it clear I was disappointed in that".
Another weird twist in the Redskins' ongoing drama.
Mike Shanahan announced Robert Griffin's benching just yesterday and named back-up Kirk Cousins the starter for the rest of the season.
Mike Shanahan's reasoning was to get Griffin ready for the offseason and avoid further injury to his surgically-reconstructed knee.
His son Kyle obviously disagrees:
"The doctors come up and tell you whether you have him or not, and you don't ask questions. You just keep calling plays. I've never seen a coach take a player out of a game when he says he's healthy...I think it would be good for Robert to get the reps."