The Fatal Fourway: Wilson, Lance, Fields, and Jones; Enter and declare your allegiance!

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Jones would be a safe pick but they didn't need to move up tht much to get him. I'm afraid if they pass on Lance or Fields that peopel on this board will be complaining 2 year from now that they passed up their chance to get a franchise QB. A real difference maker.

I'm not saying that I know for sure that Lance or Fields will be great but they have way more upside than Jones. In my mind, Jones would be just a younger, cheaper JG.

I hear you. I understand every opinion. For me it's simple. Jones is a solid QB. He's a healthy and younger Jimmy. That's not a bad thing, but you can get a Jones type in middle rounds even.

Give me Fields who can do everything Jones does and then he can do everything Jones cannot because you cannot coach arm talent and athleticism etc.

Which mid-round QB compares to Jones? Guys that fit the Shanahan mold — but are actually good — are becoming the white rhino of college football. Yeah, you can get immobile QBs who stand in the pocket in the middle rounds. And they'll suck balls, like C.J. Beathard. Jones is the ONLY QB in this draft who fits the Shanahan mold whose name isn't Zach Wilson that comes out of college with NFL starter pedigree. No one else (excepting Wilson) has the accuracy, pocket awareness, arm talent (in terms of throwing off platform using upper body torque), who also fits that Shanahan mold, is in this draft. At all.

So, the only way Shanahan wouldn't desperately want Jones is if either (a) Wilson was available or (b) he has changed his quarterback preference profile.

I doubt either is realistic.

Oh, and Fields CAN'T do everything Jones can do. Fields can't anticipate as good as Jones, he's not nearly as quick a processor, and he doesn't have the same pocket awareness. Of course, Jones can't do a bunch of things Fields can do, as we all know (side note: I have been on the Fields bandwagon for some time, so don't take this as some biased rant; I'm looking at this from a perspective of what Shanahan wants). But the question is, is what Fields is great at what Shanahan wants? I think so, but I do not think he would want them if it meant not having the other things he wants (the things Wilson and Jones have).

Jones has monster talent around him so imo that has to be accounted for. That's good and bad. But I know you're right about Kyle loving Jones.l, her certainly fits his mold. I'm biased for Fields and I believe Kyle can win with him. Jones ain't rolling out and dropping a 60 yard dime like Fields can.

Jones isn't turning a busted play by the o-line into a 25 yard gain. This is where my bias comes from. As far as processing and pocket awareness. Isnt that what Kyle is for? I actually think Fields has very good pocket presence.

Originally posted by GEEK:

Originally posted by thl408:
Looking at past drafts, when was the last time the top 4 QBs selected in a draft all panned out? I went back to 2000 to check and it isn't pretty. Someone is going to draft a bust.

The hit right on a 1st round QB is much higher than other rounds though.

Additionally, I also think when you look at the folks that missed (e.g. Winston - Bucs, Mariota - Titans), you can attribute some of those misses to incompetent coaching that eventually caused churn, new FOs and/or staff, and new replacement starters (Brady and Tannehill, respectively).

Yes. I'm realistic and obviously not all 4 will be successful. Imo Trevor is the only one safe. I think Fields will be fine. Jones will be a backup at worst, but for a top 5 pick that's a bust lol. I feel like Lance could bust. It's roulette.

Fields can move in the pocket and go through progressions. People who say he can't haven't really watched him enough IMHO. But he is a bit late more often than he should be, and sometimes he becomes a "see it" thrower. But at least he can throw over people and doesn't need a clear lane to make the play (one of Lance's weaknesses).

So, Fields isn't bad on the mental stuff. But Jones has him beat there, and I suspect Shanahan values that. Combined with Fields' slightly less than desirable release (compared to Jones), it might knock him down a peg with Shanahan.

Originally posted by thl408:
Looking at past drafts, when was the last time the top 4 QBs selected in a draft all panned out? I went back to 2000 to check and it isn't pretty. Someone is going to draft a bust.

Someone will bust but it will most likely come down to the situation they are drafted into more so than them not being good enough.

One more comment on the style of QB that Kyle likes. I think he wants a guy that can stay in the pocket BUT can also make plays when everything breaks down. It happens all the time in the NFL. He sees what Wilson and Murray can do and I'm sure he wouldn't mind having a guy like that. Remember, Lance and Fields aren't just runners like Kap and Griffin. tThey both came out of offenses that had a lot of designed run plays for them because A) they were fast and B) neither was very accurate. Fields and Lance are accurate passer that happen to be mobile. Lance took snaps from under center, played with a fullback and played with his back to the line of scrimmage. I don't think he or Fields would have a problem with Kyle's offense I'm also confident that Kyle would be able to take advantage of theri talents.

Wilson
Lance
Fields

Jones

Originally posted by 9erguy:
Wilson or Fields for me at this point

yup, just those 2.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Jones would be a safe pick but they didn't need to move up tht much to get him. I'm afraid if they pass on Lance or Fields that peopel on this board will be complaining 2 year from now that they passed up their chance to get a franchise QB. A real difference maker.

I'm not saying that I know for sure that Lance or Fields will be great but they have way more upside than Jones. In my mind, Jones would be just a younger, cheaper JG.

I hear you. I understand every opinion. For me it's simple. Jones is a solid QB. He's a healthy and younger Jimmy. That's not a bad thing, but you can get a Jones type in middle rounds even.

Give me Fields who can do everything Jones does and then he can do everything Jones cannot because you cannot coach arm talent and athleticism etc.

Which mid-round QB compares to Jones? Guys that fit the Shanahan mold — but are actually good — are becoming the white rhino of college football. Yeah, you can get immobile QBs who stand in the pocket in the middle rounds. And they'll suck balls, like C.J. Beathard. Jones is the ONLY QB in this draft who fits the Shanahan mold whose name isn't Zach Wilson that comes out of college with NFL starter pedigree. No one else (excepting Wilson) has the accuracy, pocket awareness, arm talent (in terms of throwing off platform using upper body torque), who also fits that Shanahan mold, is in this draft. At all.

So, the only way Shanahan wouldn't desperately want Jones is if either (a) Wilson was available or (b) he has changed his quarterback preference profile.

I doubt either is realistic.

Oh, and Fields CAN'T do everything Jones can do. Fields can't anticipate as good as Jones, he's not nearly as quick a processor, and he doesn't have the same pocket awareness. Of course, Jones can't do a bunch of things Fields can do, as we all know (side note: I have been on the Fields bandwagon for some time, so don't take this as some biased rant; I'm looking at this from a perspective of what Shanahan wants). But the question is, is what Fields is great at what Shanahan wants? I think so, but I do not think he would want them if it meant not having the other things he wants (the things Wilson and Jones have).

Jones has monster talent around him so imo that has to be accounted for. That's good and bad. But I know you're right about Kyle loving Jones.l, her certainly fits his mold. I'm biased for Fields and I believe Kyle can win with him. Jones ain't rolling out and dropping a 60 yard dime like Fields can.

Jones isn't turning a busted play by the o-line into a 25 yard gain. This is where my bias comes from. As far as processing and pocket awareness. Isnt that what Kyle is for? I actually think Fields has very good pocket presence.

Originally posted by GEEK:

Originally posted by thl408:
Looking at past drafts, when was the last time the top 4 QBs selected in a draft all panned out? I went back to 2000 to check and it isn't pretty. Someone is going to draft a bust.

The hit right on a 1st round QB is much higher than other rounds though.

Additionally, I also think when you look at the folks that missed (e.g. Winston - Bucs, Mariota - Titans), you can attribute some of those misses to incompetent coaching that eventually caused churn, new FOs and/or staff, and new replacement starters (Brady and Tannehill, respectively).

Yes. I'm realistic and obviously not all 4 will be successful. Imo Trevor is the only one safe. I think Fields will be fine. Jones will be a backup at worst, but for a top 5 pick that's a bust lol. I feel like Lance could bust. It's roulette.

Fields can move in the pocket and go through progressions. People who say he can't haven't really watched him enough IMHO. But he is a bit late more often than he should be, and sometimes he becomes a "see it" thrower. But at least he can throw over people and doesn't need a clear lane to make the play (one of Lance's weaknesses).

So, Fields isn't bad on the mental stuff. But Jones has him beat there, and I suspect Shanahan values that. Combined with Fields' slightly less than desirable release (compared to Jones), it might knock him down a peg with Shanahan.

Agreed. But next comment. Ties into this perfectly ....

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by thl408:
Looking at past drafts, when was the last time the top 4 QBs selected in a draft all panned out? I went back to 2000 to check and it isn't pretty. Someone is going to draft a bust.

Someone will bust but it will most likely come down to the situation they are drafted into more so than them not being good enough.

Which is where Kyle comes in. I believe Kyle can turn Fields into a beast. I'm not sold on Lance at 3. Imo he needs the most work. That being said his physical tools are insane. So if anyone can make him into a winner it's Kyle.

I think Kyle can mold any of these QB into winners. So that's why I would want Fields over Jones.

I also think Wilson is a bit overrated at this point. He had a cake schedule and almost zero pressure this past season. When he did have pressure he came back to earth. This is not a knock on his ability btw - Amazing. I just think he will need more development than some think right now.

Jcool said it perfect - so many players never panned out because they weren't set up to succeed.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Jones would be a safe pick but they didn't need to move up tht much to get him. I'm afraid if they pass on Lance or Fields that peopel on this board will be complaining 2 year from now that they passed up their chance to get a franchise QB. A real difference maker.

I'm not saying that I know for sure that Lance or Fields will be great but they have way more upside than Jones. In my mind, Jones would be just a younger, cheaper JG.

I hear you. I understand every opinion. For me it's simple. Jones is a solid QB. He's a healthy and younger Jimmy. That's not a bad thing, but you can get a Jones type in middle rounds even.

Give me Fields who can do everything Jones does and then he can do everything Jones cannot because you cannot coach arm talent and athleticism etc.

Which mid-round QB compares to Jones? Guys that fit the Shanahan mold — but are actually good — are becoming the white rhino of college football. Yeah, you can get immobile QBs who stand in the pocket in the middle rounds. And they'll suck balls, like C.J. Beathard. Jones is the ONLY QB in this draft who fits the Shanahan mold whose name isn't Zach Wilson that comes out of college with NFL starter pedigree. No one else (excepting Wilson) has the accuracy, pocket awareness, arm talent (in terms of throwing off platform using upper body torque), who also fits that Shanahan mold, is in this draft. At all.

So, the only way Shanahan wouldn't desperately want Jones is if either (a) Wilson was available or (b) he has changed his quarterback preference profile.

I doubt either is realistic.

Oh, and Fields CAN'T do everything Jones can do. Fields can't anticipate as good as Jones, he's not nearly as quick a processor, and he doesn't have the same pocket awareness. Of course, Jones can't do a bunch of things Fields can do, as we all know (side note: I have been on the Fields bandwagon for some time, so don't take this as some biased rant; I'm looking at this from a perspective of what Shanahan wants). But the question is, is what Fields is great at what Shanahan wants? I think so, but I do not think he would want them if it meant not having the other things he wants (the things Wilson and Jones have).

Jones has monster talent around him so imo that has to be accounted for. That's good and bad. But I know you're right about Kyle loving Jones.l, her certainly fits his mold. I'm biased for Fields and I believe Kyle can win with him. Jones ain't rolling out and dropping a 60 yard dime like Fields can.

Jones isn't turning a busted play by the o-line into a 25 yard gain. This is where my bias comes from. As far as processing and pocket awareness. Isnt that what Kyle is for? I actually think Fields has very good pocket presence.

Originally posted by GEEK:

Originally posted by thl408:
Looking at past drafts, when was the last time the top 4 QBs selected in a draft all panned out? I went back to 2000 to check and it isn't pretty. Someone is going to draft a bust.

The hit right on a 1st round QB is much higher than other rounds though.

Additionally, I also think when you look at the folks that missed (e.g. Winston - Bucs, Mariota - Titans), you can attribute some of those misses to incompetent coaching that eventually caused churn, new FOs and/or staff, and new replacement starters (Brady and Tannehill, respectively).

Yes. I'm realistic and obviously not all 4 will be successful. Imo Trevor is the only one safe. I think Fields will be fine. Jones will be a backup at worst, but for a top 5 pick that's a bust lol. I feel like Lance could bust. It's roulette.

That shouldn't be discounted. We have clearly better rosters in place than anybody else. This roster went to a super bowl and I think would have had a good shot at that without the injuries this past year. Then, we traded up from the mid round pick we started with too, so even higher than the roster would suggest. Most teams picking in the top 5 are in full rebuild mode with new coaches. Whoever we pick will have that advantage anyway.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
One more comment on the style of QB that Kyle likes. I think he wants a guy that can stay in the pocket BUT can also make plays when everything breaks down. It happens all the time in the NFL. He sees what Wilson and Murray can do and I'm sure he wouldn't mind having a guy like that. Remember, Lance and Fields aren't just runners like Kap and Griffin. tThey both came out of offenses that had a lot of designed run plays for them because A) they were fast and B) neither was very accurate. Fields and Lance are accurate passer that happen to be mobile. Lance took snaps from under center, played with a fullback and played with his back to the line of scrimmage. I don't think he or Fields would have a problem with Kyle's offense I'm also confident that Kyle would be able to take advantage of theri talents.

Bingo! The league has changed! I think Kyle realizes we are now behind the curve and we need a mobile athletic QB. Frankly I'd be happy with either Fields or Lance.

Justin Fields looks nice to me. I'm pretty sure I heard somewhere that Lawerence and Fields have been battling it out since High School. Not sure if that was on the field or just as far as college recruiting and being the top QB in the nation type of stuff. What that means to me is that this kid Fields has been groomed for a long time. The talent has been there for years and he's finally at the point where NFL fans will get to see what scouts and college football fans have seen for years. Before Wilson possibly jumped Fields on draft boards this year, Fields was a consensus #1B to Lawerence. If he ends up a Niner I'm all in!

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by thl408:
Looking at past drafts, when was the last time the top 4 QBs selected in a draft all panned out? I went back to 2000 to check and it isn't pretty. Someone is going to draft a bust.

Someone will bust but it will most likely come down to the situation they are drafted into more so than them not being good enough.

Nature or nurture, eh? The endless debate about what makes or breaks an NFL QB.

I'm good with either four prospects. If I had to rank it:

1. Wilson
2. Fields
3. Mac
4. Lance

Originally posted by pete98146:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
One more comment on the style of QB that Kyle likes. I think he wants a guy that can stay in the pocket BUT can also make plays when everything breaks down. It happens all the time in the NFL. He sees what Wilson and Murray can do and I'm sure he wouldn't mind having a guy like that. Remember, Lance and Fields aren't just runners like Kap and Griffin. tThey both came out of offenses that had a lot of designed run plays for them because A) they were fast and B) neither was very accurate. Fields and Lance are accurate passer that happen to be mobile. Lance took snaps from under center, played with a fullback and played with his back to the line of scrimmage. I don't think he or Fields would have a problem with Kyle's offense I'm also confident that Kyle would be able to take advantage of theri talents.

Bingo! The league has changed! I think Kyle realizes we are now behind the curve and we need a mobile athletic QB. Frankly I'd be happy with either Fields or Lance.

I just hope whoever they pick gets the same amount of time to learn the system and prove himself that some fans give Jimmy. My guess is they'll be all over the guy if he doesn't look great from the beginning, whether that's 2021 or 2022.

Originally posted by fropwns:
No worries, fellas, either he is a PBM, a straight racist dope, or a goddamn fool. Usually, they take care of themselves.

Can someone PM me what PBM means please?!

Originally posted by VaBeachNiner:
Fields was at Georgia!? Oh you know fro wont have any of that.

Dude. I am not a Fields guy. Lemme explain why.

First a list of abbreviations:

Hogs=Hawgs; University of Arkansas Razorbacks Football team, Fayetteville
Homeboy up in Cincy; Joe Burrow AKA Corndog from Louisiana State University
Corndog: A derogatory reference to LSU fans always smelling like deep fried corndogs (No really, this is a thing. Google it)
Michigan Team: You know the purgatory that Jim Harbaugh is currently in.
Natty=National Championship
NIners: If you do not know this then get the f**k out of here
DMAC=Darren McFadden
Ol' U=University of Arkansas, Fayetteville
SEC: Southeastern Conference
SEC Title Game: Southeastern Conference Championship game
Gator team: University of Florida Gators Football team, Gainesville
Wildcat/WildHog offense: Staple of the Gus "Bus" Malzhan era at the University of Arkansas
Bama/Tide: University of Alabama Crimson Tide Football team, Tuscaloosa.



I would like to begin with a statement: I dislike Ohio State, though I have had past mentors hail from that place, greatly. Nor do I trust their QBs as none of them have panned out---and no, Phoenix, my man, the Corndog homeboy up in Cincy does not count. Begging the ultimate question, "what is really behind your hate of Ohio St, Fro? Tell us that untold part of your origin story".

The year was 2006, Darren McFadden of the Arkansas Razorbacks was destroying the SEC. No really, read his stats--hell, his 2007 stats were even better, you must also consider he was sharing some of the load with guys like Peyton Hillis and Felix Jones (Yes, an all-NFL backfield at the Ol' U, I tell you. McFadden and Jones numbers are telling: " the 2006 season served as a breakout for running backs Darren McFadden (1,647 yards with 14 TD; Receiving, 149yds, 1TD; KICKOFF Returns, 262 Yds, 1 TD; PASSING, 69 YDS, 3TDS, 1 INT) and Felix Jones (1,168 yards with 6 TD)"). Furthermore, this was the era that gives you the WIldcat, then called WildHog, offense, which DMAC excelled in. By all accounts, he should have won the University of Arkansas' first Heisman Trophy. But who did they give it to? Troy f**king Smith. Oh, we all know who Troy Smith is around these parts.

In this moment, I would like to set my personal disdain for Ohio State and their QBs aside and say this: I am glad Troy Smith became the first black QB to start for the Niners, all things considered, he seemed like a good dude. But I still think he sucked balls and I do not believe he deserved the Heisman. If memory serves, he never played NFL ball after his stint with the Niners.

Now back to my rant.

Smith's stats for the 2006 season are not all that impressive (2500+ yds, 30 TDs, 6 picks) in a rather weak Big TEN, IMHO, but that was not why he won. He won because he was a QB that torched a miserable Michigan team three times and was on an Ohio St team that was playing for the Natty AND BECAUSE HE LOST THE PRIOR YEAR TO REGGIE BUSH. You might ask yourself, "Hey, Fro, what happened to that Ohio St team anyway?" They got their dicks kicked in by Florida that's what happened. Funny thing, the Hawgs lost to that same Gator team, but only by 10 pts in the SEC title game, while OSU was blown the f**k out (41-14). WAIT, IT GETS f**kING BETTER. Smith's line for the game: "four of 14 passes for 35 yards along with an interception, a fumble, and was sacked five times" DMAC's Line vs the Gator's roughly a month before?: RUSHING: 21/73yds;RECEIVING: 2 rec for 27yds; 1/3 PASSING 1TD, 1 INT (Folks, he ain't a QB, remember that.)

BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE.

The year was 2011, it was the height of the Bobby Petrino era. And the Hogs met the Ohio State Cheating b*****ds for the Sugar Bowl Championship. You might remember that year's iteration of the Buckeyes as the one that got caught up in a bit of scandal--I ask, simply, when do they not have scandal? That year's team got involved in a scandal involving football players exchanging autographs and whatnot for money and tattoos. INCLUDING THEIR QUARTERBACK, Terrelle Pryor. Here's a good read on it: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/719411-scandal-at-ohio-state-part-1-of-5-the-tattooed-five-tressels-cover-up. The scandal emerged before the Sugar Bowl, but OHIO CHEATING STATE allowed all the players to play, including Terrelle Pryor. Hawgs choke (Ryan Mallett pick near the end of the game sealed it), Bucks win, and Pryor gets MVP of the game; as for the Hawgs, they began their own road of misery. Nonetheless, Pryor should have never been allowed to play at all.

BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE. If you read the article from Bleacherreport, the scandal runs deep. And in fact, that Sugar Bowl win, a win that their QB should not have been allowed to be a part of, along with a host of others, the Buckeyes were forced to vacate. And Pryor left Ohio State in disgrace. You might ask, "Hey Fro, what happened to Terrelle Pryor?" Well, kids, he has largely bounced from NFL team to NFL team and has had some difficulties in real life off the field.

For these reasons, I do not like Ohio State or their QBs.

Yes, I understand it is completely irrational to think this way about every QB that played for them--though, I would like to point out that I believe too often we have touted their Quarterbacks as great and they never, ever pan out (Justin Fields against Bama performed in a meh fashion: Passing: 17/33, 194, 1TD, Rushing: 6/67yds. Sure he did his best and he largely carried them against the Tide, but they STILL GOT TRUCKED. Oh by the way, Mac Jones went PASSING: 36/45, 464, 5TDS!!!!; Rushing: 4/11 in the same f**king game.) Yes, I understand it is not fair to Ohio State to continuously refer to them as cheating b*****ds who really do not deserve their status as a preeminent team.


Does it look like I care if it is rationale or not? I have beefs that run deep, my man. If Justin Fields becomes something, great. Happy for him. But just not here. I want Wilson, but I think the choice will likely be Mac Jones. And, he will be glorious for us.

f**k Ohio State.

Lawrence and Wilson most likely gone by pick 3 so ...

1. Lance if Kyle is swinging for the fence
2. Fields if playing it safe
3. Jones if Kyle loses his mind