2023 Draft Prospect Watch List and Discussion

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Only a handful of posters act like they have never been wrong. You and me both got to enjoy the wrong on Huf crow buffet

Yup I'll eat that up no problem.

I was right about Huf, and predicted we would draft him.

But I also predicted Jalen Hurd, Sermon, and Jerrick Mckinnon... all of them sucked.

I feel like I have a good eye when it comes to the players Kyle would like, but my ability to analyze tape for WRs and RBs is suspect.

I'd be much more accurate with my player assessments if I just labeled everyone a bust the moment they were drafted.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:
How I'm seeing the CB rankings
1. Gonzalez
2. Banks
3. Witherspoon
4. Smith
5. Phillips
6. Forbes
7. Porter Jr.

Hey Hyst, I haven't been paying close attention but Lance Boykin is, I think, the second CB prospect that is 6'2" or over they met with (article saying they met predraft). What's up with finding tall lengthy CBs again? I thought the team was over that when they went Lenior and Ambry.

The 49ers played Cover3 like any other team in terms of frequency, but these tall, not so agile CBs, suggest a shift back to the profile that Saleh was looking for back in 2017. Trying to get a clue for what Steve Wilks wants to do by looking at the CBs the 49ers are looking at.

Well Wilks was with the Panthers when they took Jaycee Horne. I'm not going to act like I know exactly how much press man, off man or zone the Panthers were running but my guess is Wilks wants to play lots of press and blitz. With Ward and Oliver we have two taller CBs who can disrupt routes at the line. I wouldn't be surprised if we take Eli Ricks or Tyrique Stevenson to compete with Lenoir. My guess is with Bosa and and a blitzing game Wilks will want to force quick passes allowing his Safeties to play more downhill and his corners to beat up on the divas. Just my guess which will most assuredly be incorrect as we start running Tampa 2 which would be incredible with Fred Warner.

Horn was a top prospect that could play in any scheme though, right? So any team would have liked to draft him, and top CB prospects are always drafted because they are projected to excel at man coverage. That's why I think the day 2/3 guys, guys that have hole(s) in their game, while being good at other things, tell us more about what the team is looking for, and what they are willing to sacrifice in terms of skillset. Wilks does blitz with higher frequency than normal, so good point there about blitzing and pressing.
When it comes to meh QBs, I think blitzing and playing man to tighten the windows is fine. But I'm more interested in beating the good QBs that enjoy seeing a blitz because it makes things easier for them. Then when going up against good elusive QBs that can extend plays, I think having agile CBs that can plaster during off schedule situations are better than these 6'2 CBs with average fluidity.

I don't think he's looking for a H/W/S prototype, but rather he prioritizes cornerbacks that will come down in the run game and make a tackle.

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:
How I'm seeing the CB rankings
1. Gonzalez
2. Banks
3. Witherspoon
4. Smith
5. Phillips
6. Forbes
7. Porter Jr.

Hey Hyst, I haven't been paying close attention but Lance Boykin is, I think, the second CB prospect that is 6'2" or over they met with (article saying they met predraft). What's up with finding tall lengthy CBs again? I thought the team was over that when they went Lenior and Ambry.

The 49ers played Cover3 like any other team in terms of frequency, but these tall, not so agile CBs, suggest a shift back to the profile that Saleh was looking for back in 2017. Trying to get a clue for what Steve Wilks wants to do by looking at the CBs the 49ers are looking at.

Well Wilks was with the Panthers when they took Jaycee Horne. I'm not going to act like I know exactly how much press man, off man or zone the Panthers were running but my guess is Wilks wants to play lots of press and blitz. With Ward and Oliver we have two taller CBs who can disrupt routes at the line. I wouldn't be surprised if we take Eli Ricks or Tyrique Stevenson to compete with Lenoir. My guess is with Bosa and and a blitzing game Wilks will want to force quick passes allowing his Safeties to play more downhill and his corners to beat up on the divas. Just my guess which will most assuredly be incorrect as we start running Tampa 2 which would be incredible with Fred Warner.

Horn was a top prospect that could play in any scheme though, right? So any team would have liked to draft him, and top CB prospects are always drafted because they are projected to excel at man coverage. That's why I think the day 2/3 guys, guys that have hole(s) in their game, while being good at other things, tell us more about what the team is looking for, and what they are willing to sacrifice in terms of skillset. Wilks does blitz with higher frequency than normal, so good point there about blitzing and pressing.
When it comes to meh QBs, I think blitzing and playing man to tighten the windows is fine. But I'm more interested in beating the good QBs that enjoy seeing a blitz because it makes things easier for them. Then when going up against good elusive QBs that can extend plays, I think having agile CBs that can plaster during off schedule situations are better than these 6'2 CBs with average fluidity.

I don't think he's looking for a H/W/S prototype, but rather he prioritizes cornerbacks that will come down in the run game and make a tackle.

I don't think teams should prioritize a CB's run support ability. It's a requirement, but not a priority.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:
How I'm seeing the CB rankings
1. Gonzalez
2. Banks
3. Witherspoon
4. Smith
5. Phillips
6. Forbes
7. Porter Jr.

Hey Hyst, I haven't been paying close attention but Lance Boykin is, I think, the second CB prospect that is 6'2" or over they met with (article saying they met predraft). What's up with finding tall lengthy CBs again? I thought the team was over that when they went Lenior and Ambry.

The 49ers played Cover3 like any other team in terms of frequency, but these tall, not so agile CBs, suggest a shift back to the profile that Saleh was looking for back in 2017. Trying to get a clue for what Steve Wilks wants to do by looking at the CBs the 49ers are looking at.

Funny you say that. I was just listening to Chapman and Breezy was just talking about how we should be looking at profiles Wilks likes and said he loves the longer, press CB's and hard hitting, play-making S's. We've already been connected with 53 CB's and S's...maybe we need to focus on those traits again???

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Luckycharms:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by Luckycharms:
"Guard the only position other than RB where more Pro Bowlers/All-Pros have been drafted on Day 2 than Day 1. Age also matters less here than anywhere else. Elite OGs entered the league at an average of 22.8 years old. OG also has the lowest % of elite players from Power 5 schools."

Also interesting is that center has the second highest % of elite players (behind safety) come from rounds 4+ but also the highest % from Power 5 schools.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Bo_Wulf/status/1646494781944545281

That doesn't surprise me. I have no evidence to support my feelings, because I've never dug into it, but I always felt like the players who worked out the most from power 5 schools were O-lineman. Lol

OG have the least % from power 5 schools but C and Safety have the highest from power 5. Maybe since both those positions kinda require thinking/intelligence that pays off more for those positions playing against tough competition nearly every week. Also interesting that more elite safety's come from rounds 4+

I love these nuggets. Good stuff.

Wait so you don't have to burn a 1st for a OG

You don't have to burn a high pick on any position. But you shouldn't be adverse to it either. Also, like you, most GM's don't value them as highly so that's where they are being taken so that's why they hit. They'd hit if they were taken higher too. It's about the talent + need. Not "draft value."

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Luckycharms:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by Luckycharms:
"Guard the only position other than RB where more Pro Bowlers/All-Pros have been drafted on Day 2 than Day 1. Age also matters less here than anywhere else. Elite OGs entered the league at an average of 22.8 years old. OG also has the lowest % of elite players from Power 5 schools."

Also interesting is that center has the second highest % of elite players (behind safety) come from rounds 4+ but also the highest % from Power 5 schools.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Bo_Wulf/status/1646494781944545281

That doesn't surprise me. I have no evidence to support my feelings, because I've never dug into it, but I always felt like the players who worked out the most from power 5 schools were O-lineman. Lol

OG have the least % from power 5 schools but C and Safety have the highest from power 5. Maybe since both those positions kinda require thinking/intelligence that pays off more for those positions playing against tough competition nearly every week. Also interesting that more elite safety's come from rounds 4+

I love these nuggets. Good stuff.

Wait so you don't have to burn a 1st for a OG

Well it would make sense they would have a higher hit rate later in the draft. Premier posistions such as Edge, CB and WR get taken earlier so later in the draft you're taking the 20th ranked Edge or the 5th ranked Center.

This man gets it.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:
How I'm seeing the CB rankings
1. Gonzalez
2. Banks
3. Witherspoon
4. Smith
5. Phillips
6. Forbes
7. Porter Jr.

Hey Hyst, I haven't been paying close attention but Lance Boykin is, I think, the second CB prospect that is 6'2" or over they met with (article saying they met predraft). What's up with finding tall lengthy CBs again? I thought the team was over that when they went Lenior and Ambry.

The 49ers played Cover3 like any other team in terms of frequency, but these tall, not so agile CBs, suggest a shift back to the profile that Saleh was looking for back in 2017. Trying to get a clue for what Steve Wilks wants to do by looking at the CBs the 49ers are looking at.

Funny you say that. I was just listening to Chapman and Breezy was just talking about how we should be looking at profiles Wilks likes and said he loves the longer, press CB's and hard hitting, play-making S's. We've already been connected with 53 CB's and S's...maybe we need to focus on those traits again???

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:
How I'm seeing the CB rankings
1. Gonzalez
2. Banks
3. Witherspoon
4. Smith
5. Phillips
6. Forbes
7. Porter Jr.

Hey Hyst, I haven't been paying close attention but Lance Boykin is, I think, the second CB prospect that is 6'2" or over they met with (article saying they met predraft). What's up with finding tall lengthy CBs again? I thought the team was over that when they went Lenior and Ambry.

The 49ers played Cover3 like any other team in terms of frequency, but these tall, not so agile CBs, suggest a shift back to the profile that Saleh was looking for back in 2017. Trying to get a clue for what Steve Wilks wants to do by looking at the CBs the 49ers are looking at.

Funny you say that. I was just listening to Chapman and Breezy was just talking about how we should be looking at profiles Wilks likes and said he loves the longer, press CB's and hard hitting, play-making S's. We've already been connected with 53 CB's and S's...maybe we need to focus on those traits again???

I know. I feel this one. Lenoir better watch out.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:
How I'm seeing the CB rankings
1. Gonzalez
2. Banks
3. Witherspoon
4. Smith
5. Phillips
6. Forbes
7. Porter Jr.

Hey Hyst, I haven't been paying close attention but Lance Boykin is, I think, the second CB prospect that is 6'2" or over they met with (article saying they met predraft). What's up with finding tall lengthy CBs again? I thought the team was over that when they went Lenior and Ambry.

The 49ers played Cover3 like any other team in terms of frequency, but these tall, not so agile CBs, suggest a shift back to the profile that Saleh was looking for back in 2017. Trying to get a clue for what Steve Wilks wants to do by looking at the CBs the 49ers are looking at.

Funny you say that. I was just listening to Chapman and Breezy was just talking about how we should be looking at profiles Wilks likes and said he loves the longer, press CB's and hard hitting, play-making S's. We've already been connected with 53 CB's and S's...maybe we need to focus on those traits again???

Are there DB coaches that don't want hard hitting, play making safeties? A shift back to longer CBs is such a yo-yo in philosophy, if true. But I guess that's what happens with the third DC in four years - flip flopping of what skillset a coach is looking for.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:
How I'm seeing the CB rankings
1. Gonzalez
2. Banks
3. Witherspoon
4. Smith
5. Phillips
6. Forbes
7. Porter Jr.

Hey Hyst, I haven't been paying close attention but Lance Boykin is, I think, the second CB prospect that is 6'2" or over they met with (article saying they met predraft). What's up with finding tall lengthy CBs again? I thought the team was over that when they went Lenior and Ambry.

The 49ers played Cover3 like any other team in terms of frequency, but these tall, not so agile CBs, suggest a shift back to the profile that Saleh was looking for back in 2017. Trying to get a clue for what Steve Wilks wants to do by looking at the CBs the 49ers are looking at.

Funny you say that. I was just listening to Chapman and Breezy was just talking about how we should be looking at profiles Wilks likes and said he loves the longer, press CB's and hard hitting, play-making S's. We've already been connected with 53 CB's and S's...maybe we need to focus on those traits again???

Are there DB coaches that don't want hard hitting, play making safeties? A shift back to longer CBs is such a yo-yo in philosophy, if true. But I guess that's what happens with the third DC in four years - flip flopping of what skillset a coach is looking for.

Haha. I think he meant bigger, box type safeties. I genuinely don't know his overall philosophy or prototypes for each spot.

But if he's willing to adapt to the W9, maybe that's a sign of flexibility and he'll stay with what's been working even if they are outside his prototype.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

The #49ers hosted Northern Michigan's OT Jake Witt on a top-30 visit, per @draftguyjimmy

H/T @Steph49K pic.twitter.com/xgpkJ89AB4

— WayneBreezie (@thewaynebreezie) April 14, 2023

This guy has a fun YouTube channel. I started following him a little while ago, very positive channel. Lol

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:
How I'm seeing the CB rankings
1. Gonzalez
2. Banks
3. Witherspoon
4. Smith
5. Phillips
6. Forbes
7. Porter Jr.

Hey Hyst, I haven't been paying close attention but Lance Boykin is, I think, the second CB prospect that is 6'2" or over they met with (article saying they met predraft). What's up with finding tall lengthy CBs again? I thought the team was over that when they went Lenior and Ambry.

The 49ers played Cover3 like any other team in terms of frequency, but these tall, not so agile CBs, suggest a shift back to the profile that Saleh was looking for back in 2017. Trying to get a clue for what Steve Wilks wants to do by looking at the CBs the 49ers are looking at.

Funny you say that. I was just listening to Chapman and Breezy was just talking about how we should be looking at profiles Wilks likes and said he loves the longer, press CB's and hard hitting, play-making S's. We've already been connected with 53 CB's and S's...maybe we need to focus on those traits again???

Are there DB coaches that don't want hard hitting, play making safeties? A shift back to longer CBs is such a yo-yo in philosophy, if true. But I guess that's what happens with the third DC in four years - flip flopping of what skillset a coach is looking for.

Just looking at some of the corners we've either had a lot of interest in or had for pre draft visits

Terell Smith - Minnesota
6 foot and a half, 204 lbs
Pre draft visit

Darell Luter jr - South Alabama
6'0, 189 lbs
Pre draft virtual visit

Kei'Trel Clark - Louisville
5'10, 181 lbs
Virtual visit, also met at combine and shown a lot of interest.

Steven Jones jr - Appalachian st
5'10, 185 lbs
Pre draft virtual visit

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:
How I'm seeing the CB rankings
1. Gonzalez
2. Banks
3. Witherspoon
4. Smith
5. Phillips
6. Forbes
7. Porter Jr.

Hey Hyst, I haven't been paying close attention but Lance Boykin is, I think, the second CB prospect that is 6'2" or over they met with (article saying they met predraft). What's up with finding tall lengthy CBs again? I thought the team was over that when they went Lenior and Ambry.

The 49ers played Cover3 like any other team in terms of frequency, but these tall, not so agile CBs, suggest a shift back to the profile that Saleh was looking for back in 2017. Trying to get a clue for what Steve Wilks wants to do by looking at the CBs the 49ers are looking at.

Well Wilks was with the Panthers when they took Jaycee Horne. I'm not going to act like I know exactly how much press man, off man or zone the Panthers were running but my guess is Wilks wants to play lots of press and blitz. With Ward and Oliver we have two taller CBs who can disrupt routes at the line. I wouldn't be surprised if we take Eli Ricks or Tyrique Stevenson to compete with Lenoir. My guess is with Bosa and and a blitzing game Wilks will want to force quick passes allowing his Safeties to play more downhill and his corners to beat up on the divas. Just my guess which will most assuredly be incorrect as we start running Tampa 2 which would be incredible with Fred Warner.

Horn was a top prospect that could play in any scheme though, right? So any team would have liked to draft him, and top CB prospects are always drafted because they are projected to excel at man coverage. That's why I think the day 2/3 guys, guys that have hole(s) in their game, while being good at other things, tell us more about what the team is looking for, and what they are willing to sacrifice in terms of skillset. Wilks does blitz with higher frequency than normal, so good point there about blitzing and pressing.
When it comes to meh QBs, I think blitzing and playing man to tighten the windows is fine. But I'm more interested in beating the good QBs that enjoy seeing a blitz because it makes things easier for them. Then when going up against good elusive QBs that can extend plays, I think having agile CBs that can plaster during off schedule situations are better than these 6'2 CBs with average fluidity.

I don't think he's looking for a H/W/S prototype, but rather he prioritizes cornerbacks that will come down in the run game and make a tackle.

I don't think teams should prioritize a CB's run support ability. It's a requirement, but not a priority.

I agree, and I'm not saying they are bumping players up because of their tackling ability and ability in run support, but rather they are keeping players without those traits completely off of the board, which is going to skew the body types of players that we bring in....small corners that don't make business decisions are few and far between if you aren't willing to tackle, you aren't going to be a niner. Between those who are, who is the best in coverage, disrupting at the catchpoint, changing direction, etc

49ers should use some future draft capital to move up a little bit here and there to pick up the players they need that can play soon. 49ers are in win-now mode and some rebuilding teams would like to get an extra future 2024 4th or 5th rd pick to move back.

We need OT, TE, CB, S, OLB, Edge and it will be very hard to find really good OT, TE, CB, Edge in rd 5, so trade up with some extra picks in 2024

49ers have ~11 or 12 picks in 2024, and they won't need 11 players. So it's best to try to trade up from 5th into 4th etc to win now.
In 2024 49ers have these picks: #1, #2, three #3's, #4, #5, three #6's, #7 (so 6 high picks in rd 1-4)

There will be lots of good players in 2023 in rd 3-4 that will be gone in rd 5. So because we have 11 in 2024, we could use a pick or two to move up from rd 5 to rd 4 etc for a better player to win now. There will be some good CB's, LB's and TE's in rd 4 that will be gone by our 5th rd picks at #155, #164, #173. So they should package for example a 5th with a future 5th to get into the 4th for their preferred players

Over half of these guys are prospects we've been talking about for a while