Roger Rosengarten-OT-Washington

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I vaguely remember Fred having a late 3rd/4th rd grade from a lot of folks. Elite athlete with great coverage skills. He was a projection at LBer (3 down guy) based on what he did at BYU I guess.

I'll never forget Larry Kruger crying about drafting Fred Warner in the 3rd round complaining that they had reached for a "day-3 special teams player."

Originally posted by krizay:
Every year you talk about how you like a player then spend 50% of the time stating why we shouldn't draft him.

I like Javon Baker. I don't like him in the 1st rd. I like Dadrion Taylor-Demerson. I don't like him in the second round. I like McCormick, not in the second rd.

You like Khyree Jackson, I bet you don't want to take him in the 1st rd or dare I say move up because you don't want anyone to take him.

you can like players and ALSO understand that their not worth a certain draft position. If not what the hell is the point of having a big board and draft grades on players? I mean should SF move up in the 1st and make sure there's no chance anyone gets RR?

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I vaguely remember Fred having a late 3rd/4th rd grade from a lot of folks. Elite athlete with great coverage skills. He was a projection at LBer (3 down guy) based on what he did at BYU I guess.

I'll never forget Larry Kruger crying about drafting Fred Warner in the 3rd round complaining that they had reached for a "day-3 special teams player."

Omg he's such a loser…I can't stand him evaluations and attitude. I unfollowed him a while back, his tweets are like nails on a chalkboard.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
same can be said for every team.

There's only a small amount of for sure picks.. the rest is a crap shoot

I understand that….SF does love to overdraft players though. It's every yr, not one dude that the consensus considered an "overdraft" turn into a justified pick imo. that's just my two cents on it.

Originally posted by krizay:
I remember his melt down on draft night when he thought Aiyuk was overdrafted

I wanted lamb….turns out that wasn't that bad

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Omg he's such a loser…I can't stand him evaluations and attitude. I unfollowed him a while back, his tweets are like nails on a chalkboard.

Lol I actually grew up listening to this dude as a kid on the local radio, so it's wild to see him decline into a blithering fool.

But to your original point of the overdrafts: they've reached and missed on the overwhelming majority of them. I'm interested to see if things change this year without Peters. I'm not in the camp that he was some magical wizard in the draft room. A lot of people don't know this, but Adam Peters brought over the New England-style grading system to SF. I remember reading about how they stack the board different than the majority of the NFL, and that they rank players based on how they fit on the current roster rather than player grades and draft value like the rest of the league. This is probably why they reach sooo much.

Originally posted by Heroism:
Lol I actually grew up listening to this dude on KNBR, so it's wild to see him decline into a blithering fool.

But to your original point of the overdrafts: they've reached and missed on the overwhelming majority of them. I'm interested to see if things change this year without Peters. I'm not in the camp that he was some magical wizard in the draft room. A lot of people don't know this, but Adam Peters brought over the New England-style grading system to SF. I remember reading about how they stack the board different than the majority of the NFL, and that they rank players based on how they fit on the current roster rather than player grades and draft value like the rest of the league. This is probably why they reach sooo much.

Interesting…gotta wonder if SF changes that Philosophy? For the most part I thought NE was terrible at drafting.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Interesting…gotta wonder if SF changes that Philosophy? For the most part I thought NE was terrible at drafting.

I used to have a great article explaing the NE style grading, but I lost it. But John Lynch mentioned the change in 2017:

Did Adam bring scouting reports from Denver? How did the scouting system work? Did you merge some of former 49ers general manager Trent Baalke's stuff? I'm just curious how that worked.

"Yeah, so when we first brought scouts in right after the Super Bowl we were kind of working off the old grading system. But, what helped was the grading system that they use in Denver, which kind of derived from one that was developed in New England, was also one that Kyle was familiar with in Atlanta because [Atlanta Falcons general manager] Thomas Dimitroff had been in New England. So, it was a natural fit to move to that. So, in these last three weeks of draft meetings we moved over to that grading scale. That's the answer there. That always helps that there's, but I think also, having some different backgrounds has been, I feel, I've always been someone who thinks you should listen to multiple opinions and we've been very collaborative. I believe in strong opinions. Someone once told me, 'strong opinions, weakly held.' So, are you open to different thoughts and someone makes you think, but ultimately someone's got to make decisions."

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I like Javon Baker. I don't like him in the 1st rd. I like Dadrion Taylor-Demerson. I don't like him in the second round. I like McCormick, not in the second rd.

You like Khyree Jackson, I bet you don't want to take him in the 1st rd or dare I say move up because you don't want anyone to take him.

you can like players and ALSO understand that their not worth a certain draft position. If not what the hell is the point of having a big board and draft grades on players? I mean should SF move up in the 1st and make sure there's no chance anyone gets RR?

If you like a prospect that you don't think we'll be there at your next pick. IMO . its not a reach . ust how I feel. Just like you feel our 1st is a 2nd rounder.

If you dont like RR at 31 for all the reasons you state then you shouldn't like him at 63. He will be tbe same player with the same issues.

I too like Demerson. I wouldn't WANT to draft him with our 2nd either. I'd be ok with it because it is borderline if he'd be there at 90whatever.

Yes in the RR situation and the DTD scenario trading back would be best case scenarios. Though I wouldn't take another player over the one I like because Brugler or Kiper has someone else rated higher. You have to remember those guys rank every player. 49ers will not have every player on their board based on a bunch of different reasons.

Then there's if I pass on player A is there a player I can get that is comparable. In the RR situation this is where you and I differ (I believe) I don't like any of the tackles after RR to step in day one. I understand you may have a couple other options. I do not. Which is why I wouldn't hate RR at 31. I wouldn't love it. But I wouldn't hate it

Originally posted by krizay:
If you like a prospect that you don't think we'll be there at your next pick. IMO . its not a reach . ust how I feel. Just like you feel our 1st is a 2nd rounder.

If you dont like RR at 31 for all the reasons you state then you shouldn't like him at 63. He will be tbe same player with the same issues.

I too like Demerson. I wouldn't WANT to draft him with our 2nd either. I'd be ok with it because it is borderline if he'd be there at 90whatever.

Yes in the RR situation and the DTD scenario trading back would be best case scenarios. Though I wouldn't take another player over the one I like because Brugler or Kiper has someone else rated higher. You have to remember those guys rank every player. 49ers will not have every player on their board based on a bunch of different reasons.

Then there's if I pass on player A is there a player I can get that is comparable. In the RR situation this is where you and I differ (I believe) I don't like any of the tackles after RR to step in day one. I understand you may have a couple other options. I do not. Which is why I wouldn't hate RR at 31. I wouldn't love it. But I wouldn't hate it

So if you like Khyree Jackson in the second you should like him at 31. Okay solid analysis and great way to draft

Originally posted by NYniner85:
So if you like Khyree Jackson in the second you should like him at 31. Okay solid analysis lol.

LMAO you are 1 of 1. I wouldn't like Jackson in the 1st because I believe he can be had inthe 2nd. I would have taken him in the 2nd(final mock has changed) because I didn't believe he'd be there in the 3rd.

That said, again, I wouldn't HATE it because I like the prospect.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
So if you like Khyree Jackson in the second you should like him at 31. Okay solid analysis and great way to draft

Lets look at this from a reverse angle. You don't like Cooper DeJean because you don't think he fits our defense. If you feel that way about him at 31. You still shouldn't like him at 63 because he still doesn't fit.

This is why teams doesn't have every player on their board.

I can like a prospect and realize what their value is…part of the intrigue with RR is they didn't have to use a 1st on a guy that could be a starting RT. Now that you're telling me they in fact do have to use a 1st. His value is gone. His negatives do need to be talked about because you do have film on why he shouldn't be a 1st and why there isn't zero talk of any other team looking at him as a 1st outside of us.

s**t you got someone like Thorn giving him a 4th rd grade…yet you telling me I have to be cool with it because I don't think he completely sucks? For someone that is ALWAYS about value you sure are going in the opposite direction.

Originally posted by krizay:
Lets look at this from a reverse angle. You don't like Cooper DeJean because you don't think he fits our defense. If you feel that way about him at 31. You still shouldn't like him at 63 because he still doesn't fit.

This is why teams doesn't have every player on their board.

I never said he wasn't a fit for our scheme? I said I'm not spending a 1st on CB who never played man coverage and his best fit is probably in the slot or as a safety. His value is less in eyes.

I also never said RR wasn't a fit for us either. He is however limited and his chances of being the next Staley are slim. Doesn't mean he can't be a starting RT. I think he can't I also have higher grades for other players that will most likely be there…it's like you never heard of reaching? SF loves to do it and more often than not it's doesn't work out.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I can like a prospect and realize what their value is…part of the intrigue with RR is they didn't have to use a 1st on a guy that could be a starting RT. Now that you're telling me they in fact do have to use a 1st. His value is gone. His negatives do need to be talked about because you do have film on why he shouldn't be a 1st and why there isn't zero talk of any other team looking at him as a 1st outside of us.

s**t you got someone like Thorn giving him a 4th rd grade…yet you telling me I have to be cool with it because I don't think he completely sucks? For someone that is ALWAYS about value you sure are going in the opposite direction.

Brugler has a 4th round grade on Kingsley Suamataia. You like him at 31.

We can't pick and choose which rankings we're going to use and when.