2024 Draft Class: WR

Originally posted by communist:
scouting report says yac not great??

I don't agree with that, I mean he's a punt returner

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:
My theory: niners wanted Xavier Worthy. We know they want (and need) more speed at the position, we know that were headed into uncertainty at the position at least in 2025, they were linked to him late in the process, and KC obviously had enough intel to move up for him despite it being highly unlikely Dallas or Baltimore go WR.

KC jumped SF to get him. We have enough historical precedent to know that the niners don't pivot well, and they took the next best player at the position with the same archetype. They were correct in that Pearsall likely wouldn't be there at 63, and had convinced themselves they needed Xavier Worthy or similar player of that archetype to plug a specific hole or role on the roster, so they take him instead of pivoting to BPA/different position.

Happier with Pearsall over Worthy for sure. Too many John Ross flashbacks. Per most scouting reports: No contested catch ability, easily pushed off route, struggles versus press, limited route running ability, not great blocker, drops, more of a niche prospect, I weighed more in high school. lol

Originally posted by Rathof44:

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:
My theory: niners wanted Xavier Worthy. We know they want (and need) more speed at the position, we know that were headed into uncertainty at the position at least in 2025, they were linked to him late in the process, and KC obviously had enough intel to move up for him despite it being highly unlikely Dallas or Baltimore go WR.

KC jumped SF to get him. We have enough historical precedent to know that the niners don't pivot well, and they took the next best player at the position with the same archetype. They were correct in that Pearsall likely wouldn't be there at 63, and had convinced themselves they needed Xavier Worthy or similar player of that archetype to plug a specific hole or role on the roster, so they take him instead of pivoting to BPA/different position.

Happier with Pearsall over Worthy for sure. Too many John Ross flashbacks. Per most scouting reports: No contested catch ability, easily pushed off route, struggles versus press, limited route running ability, not great blocker, drops, more of a niche prospect, I weighed more in high school. lol

It's a moot point now, but any likening to John Ross would have me no longer reading the work of whoever made the scouting report.

Originally posted by scooterhd:

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by scooterhd:

Originally posted by communist:
Xavier worthy is a first round talent???

Yes.

lol how so?

Elite speed. NFL has never been shy to draft guys with elite traits. John Ross, Henry Ruggs had the 2 previous fastest 40s are were both first round picks without elite level collegiate production. There's also been a wave of lightweight receivers in recent years. Worthy was 165 at the combine, but was probably cutting to run as fast as possible. He was 169 at his Pro Day. He's only 20. He is going to put on more muscle. Wouldnt be surprised if he starts the season at 175. Sub 180 weight use to cross guys off the board. Game was too physical and they would get destroyed by 260 pound linebackers coming across the middle. Now we are halfway to flag football and these shifty speed guys are becoming common place. Tank Dell, Devonta Smith, Jordan Addison, Jahan Dotson, Jaylen Waddle, Wandale Robinson, Jameson Williams, Elijah Moore, Calvin Austin, Diontae Johnson, Josh Downs, Rondale Moore, Darnell Mooney. Sub 180s guys everywhere.

I just dont see a team with a big armed QB passing on his traits. Namely the Chiefs, but I would be surprised if he makes it that far.

Called this one. And the Chiefs were worried about him making it that far as well so moved up to get him.

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by Rathof44:

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:
My theory: niners wanted Xavier Worthy. We know they want (and need) more speed at the position, we know that were headed into uncertainty at the position at least in 2025, they were linked to him late in the process, and KC obviously had enough intel to move up for him despite it being highly unlikely Dallas or Baltimore go WR.

KC jumped SF to get him. We have enough historical precedent to know that the niners don't pivot well, and they took the next best player at the position with the same archetype. They were correct in that Pearsall likely wouldn't be there at 63, and had convinced themselves they needed Xavier Worthy or similar player of that archetype to plug a specific hole or role on the roster, so they take him instead of pivoting to BPA/different position.

Happier with Pearsall over Worthy for sure. Too many John Ross flashbacks. Per most scouting reports: No contested catch ability, easily pushed off route, struggles versus press, limited route running ability, not great blocker, drops, more of a niche prospect, I weighed more in high school. lol

It's a moot point now, but any likening to John Ross would have me no longer reading the work of whoever made the scouting report.

Hindsight is always 20/20 when it comes to the draft: Per NFL, Lance Zeurlein:
Ross Combine: 5'11", 188lb: "Week one Starter". 4.22 40yd, 1.46 10yd, 37" vert, 11'1" broad. Athletic score: 99 (1st among WR), production score: 80.
Worthy combine: 5'11", 165lb :"eventual average starter" 4.21, 1.49 10yd, 41" vert, 10' 11" broad. Athleticism score: 98 (1st), production score: 81

Going into their respective drafts, they're the exact same dude. Easy to shade Ross now. We'll see with Worthy.

Originally posted by Rathof44:
Hindsight is always 20/20 when it comes to the draft: Per NFL, Lance Zeurlein:
Ross Combine: 5'11", 188lb: "Week one Starter". 4.22 40yd, 1.46 10yd, 37" vert, 11'1" broad. Athletic score: 99 (1st among WR), production score: 80.
Worthy combine: 5'11", 165lb :"eventual average starter" 4.21, 1.49 10yd, 41" vert, 10' 11" broad. Athleticism score: 98 (1st), production score: 81

Going into their respective drafts, they're the exact same dude. Easy to shade Ross now. We'll see with Worthy.

Sure, if all you do is go to NFL.com to read scouting reports, Worthy and Ross are the same exact person.

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by Rathof44:
Hindsight is always 20/20 when it comes to the draft: Per NFL, Lance Zeurlein:
Ross Combine: 5'11", 188lb: "Week one Starter". 4.22 40yd, 1.46 10yd, 37" vert, 11'1" broad. Athletic score: 99 (1st among WR), production score: 80.
Worthy combine: 5'11", 165lb :"eventual average starter" 4.21, 1.49 10yd, 41" vert, 10' 11" broad. Athleticism score: 98 (1st), production score: 81

Going into their respective drafts, they're the exact same dude. Easy to shade Ross now. We'll see with Worthy.

Sure, if all you do is go to NFL.com to read scouting reports, Worthy and Ross are the same exact person.

Right and going into the draft everyone was all over Ross, which is why he went top 10. Like I said, hindsight is always 20/20 with past drafts. Read most scouting reports on the two, very similar across the board.

Originally posted by Rathof44:

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by Rathof44:
Hindsight is always 20/20 when it comes to the draft: Per NFL, Lance Zeurlein:
Ross Combine: 5'11", 188lb: "Week one Starter". 4.22 40yd, 1.46 10yd, 37" vert, 11'1" broad. Athletic score: 99 (1st among WR), production score: 80.
Worthy combine: 5'11", 165lb :"eventual average starter" 4.21, 1.49 10yd, 41" vert, 10' 11" broad. Athleticism score: 98 (1st), production score: 81

Going into their respective drafts, they're the exact same dude. Easy to shade Ross now. We'll see with Worthy.

Sure, if all you do is go to NFL.com to read scouting reports, Worthy and Ross are the same exact person.

Right and going into the draft everyone was all over Ross, which is why he went top 10. Like I said, hindsight is always 20/20 with past drafts. Read most scouting reports on the two, very similar across the board.

Or, here me out, watch them both play. I'm not even saying Ross was a bad prospect (though top 10 was crazy, and clearly based on speed). His career was - partially at least - derailed by injuries. I'm just saying that Xavier Worthy wins in different ways than Ross, and their comparison starts and ends at elite deep speed. Worthy produced immediately as a true freshman, and has much better change of direction, making him more of a 3 level threat. Sure, he's small, but most defenses will play him off, and good teams will find ways to hide him at the LOS and get him open vs good defenses who actually trust their corners to press him at the line.

Your OP seems to me to be the one saying you don't like Worthy because of PTSD revolving around Ross - so it's actually you using Hindsight to make an evaluation of a player, not I.

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by Rathof44:

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by Rathof44:
Hindsight is always 20/20 when it comes to the draft: Per NFL, Lance Zeurlein:
Ross Combine: 5'11", 188lb: "Week one Starter". 4.22 40yd, 1.46 10yd, 37" vert, 11'1" broad. Athletic score: 99 (1st among WR), production score: 80.
Worthy combine: 5'11", 165lb :"eventual average starter" 4.21, 1.49 10yd, 41" vert, 10' 11" broad. Athleticism score: 98 (1st), production score: 81

Going into their respective drafts, they're the exact same dude. Easy to shade Ross now. We'll see with Worthy.

Sure, if all you do is go to NFL.com to read scouting reports, Worthy and Ross are the same exact person.

Right and going into the draft everyone was all over Ross, which is why he went top 10. Like I said, hindsight is always 20/20 with past drafts. Read most scouting reports on the two, very similar across the board.

Or, here me out, watch them both play. I'm not even saying Ross was a bad prospect (though top 10 was crazy, and clearly based on speed). His career was - partially at least - derailed by injuries. I'm just saying that Xavier Worthy wins in different ways than Ross, and their comparison starts and ends at elite deep speed. Worthy produced immediately as a true freshman, and has much better change of direction, making him more of a 3 level threat. Sure, he's small, but most defenses will play him off, and good teams will find ways to hide him at the LOS and get him open vs good defenses who actually trust their corners to press him at the line.

Your OP seems to me to be the one saying you don't like Worthy because of PTSD revolving around Ross - so it's actually you using Hindsight to make an evaluation of a player, not I.

I hear you, but I don't like Worthy because of his size, mid route running ability, and inability to make contested catches consistently. But also the fawning over the speed is funny, the two guys that come to mind are Ruggs and Ross and neither were successful. Also IMO, teams won't play off him, because he so tiny, they will press him and knock him off his routes. I like Pearsall more, I like Ladd more, I like Mitchell more but I'm no scout. Name one blazing WR, other than HIll, who was been successful after all the hype around a 40 time. He's a niche receiver, he may fit perfectly with Mahomes. Purdy doesn't have that arm talent. But he won't be Hill, not even close. My .02

Originally posted by Rathof44:
I hear you, but I don't like Worthy because of his size, mid route running ability, and inability to make contested catches consistently. But also the fawning over the speed is funny, the two guys that come to mind are Ruggs and Ross and neither were successful. Also IMO, teams won't play off him, because he so tiny, they will press him and knock him off his routes. I like Pearsall more, I like Ladd more, I like Mitchell more but I'm no scout. Name one blazing WR, other than HIll, who was been successful after all the hype around a 40 time. He's a niche receiver, he may fit perfectly with Mahomes. Purdy doesn't have that arm talent. But he won't be Hill, not even close. My .02

Speed is just one piece of the puzzle. No one should advocate to draft a guy because he runs fast. That's my issue (if you want to call it that) with people talking about Worthy; they see he runs fast and immediately think he's nothing more than a fast guy trying to play football. Basically, they're doing what you're saying shouldn't happen, just in the other direction.

Now elite speed IS one part of what makes Worthy as a prospect. But you're using speed as a disqualifier. Afterall, no one can name one blazing WR other than Tyreek Hill that has become a good WR. (Not true btw..what is your cut off for blazing? 4.29? Is 4.41 not fast? 4.35? Plenty of fast successful wide receivers). But would Aiyuk not be even better if he had 4.3 speed? Would Tyreek not be good if he ran a 4.5 flat?

If teams want to consistently jam Worthty at the line, they better keep a safety over top. But now you're dedicating 2 defenders to Worthy...that's a win. Otherwise, you better hope it works, or he's leaving for a chunk gain.

Contested catch ability is valuable, but it's value is dependent. Obviously, the best wide receivers can do it all, but contested catch ability matters less when you can create separation, and you have a QB who throws on time. And Worthy is a pretty good route runner with the hip sink ability and start/stop quickness to develop well beyond "mid"

Lastly, I'm not exactly sure who here has been "fawning" over speed, or really where that has even been mentioned in the context of our interaction. Ross has knee issues and Ruggs killed a person. They didn't fail because they run fast.

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by Rathof44:
I hear you, but I don't like Worthy because of his size, mid route running ability, and inability to make contested catches consistently. But also the fawning over the speed is funny, the two guys that come to mind are Ruggs and Ross and neither were successful. Also IMO, teams won't play off him, because he so tiny, they will press him and knock him off his routes. I like Pearsall more, I like Ladd more, I like Mitchell more but I'm no scout. Name one blazing WR, other than HIll, who was been successful after all the hype around a 40 time. He's a niche receiver, he may fit perfectly with Mahomes. Purdy doesn't have that arm talent. But he won't be Hill, not even close. My .02

Speed is just one piece of the puzzle. No one should advocate to draft a guy because he runs fast. That's my issue (if you want to call it that) with people talking about Worthy; they see he runs fast and immediately think he's nothing more than a fast guy trying to play football. Basically, they're doing what you're saying shouldn't happen, just in the other direction.

Now elite speed IS one part of what makes Worthy as a prospect. But you're using speed as a disqualifier. Afterall, no one can name one blazing WR other than Tyreek Hill that has become a good WR. (Not true btw..what is your cut off for blazing? 4.29? Is 4.41 not fast? 4.35? Plenty of fast successful wide receivers). But would Aiyuk not be even better if he had 4.3 speed? Would Tyreek not be good if he ran a 4.5 flat?

If teams want to consistently jam Worthty at the line, they better keep a safety over top. But now you're dedicating 2 defenders to Worthy...that's a win. Otherwise, you better hope it works, or he's leaving for a chunk gain.

Contested catch ability is valuable, but it's value is dependent. Obviously, the best wide receivers can do it all, but contested catch ability matters less when you can create separation, and you have a QB who throws on time. And Worthy is a pretty good route runner with the hip sink ability and start/stop quickness to develop well beyond "mid"

Lastly, I'm not exactly sure who here has been "fawning" over speed, or really where that has even been mentioned in the context of our interaction. Ross has knee issues and Ruggs killed a person. They didn't fail because they run fast.

My whole premise was based on the 40 yd dash champion at the combine (Worthy) not other fast receivers (20 WRs at the combine ran sub 4.5, so there's plenty of fast WRs) but only one gets the subsequent attention that the fastest guy at the combine receives. Mitchell ran a 4.34 and Legette a 4.39, which is extremely fast as well, still didn't garner the attention Worthy did. And those guys are also 200lb+.

Not saying people in the Webzone fawn over speed, that's putting words in my mouth. Referring to some teams, in general, fall in love with speed. You know that's true.

WRs have the biggest 1st round bust rate at 72%. I'm not sure what exactly constitutes a bust. Maybe it just means they don't become stars. If Pearsall becomes a reliable receiver that can make some plays and get in the end zone then it becomes a good pick. He seems to fit the mold of what the Niners want in a receiver.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
WRs have the biggest 1st round bust rate at 72%. I'm not sure what exactly constitutes a bust. Maybe it just means they don't become stars. If Pearsall becomes a reliable receiver that can make some plays and get in the end zone then it becomes a good pick. He seems to fit the mold of what the Niners want in a receiver.

They use whether or not they sign their second contract with the team that drafted them. So if we traded Aiyuk he'd go on the bust list.

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by Rathof44:

I hear you, but I don't like Worthy because of his size, mid route running ability, and inability to make contested catches consistently. But also the fawning over the speed is funny, the two guys that come to mind are Ruggs and Ross and neither were successful. Also IMO, teams won't play off him, because he so tiny, they will press him and knock him off his routes. I like Pearsall more, I like Ladd more, I like Mitchell more but I'm no scout. Name one blazing WR, other than HIll, who was been successful after all the hype around a 40 time. He's a niche receiver, he may fit perfectly with Mahomes. Purdy doesn't have that arm talent. But he won't be Hill, not even close. My .02

Speed is just one piece of the puzzle. No one should advocate to draft a guy because he runs fast. That's my issue (if you want to call it that) with people talking about Worthy; they see he runs fast and immediately think he's nothing more than a fast guy trying to play football. Basically, they're doing what you're saying shouldn't happen, just in the other direction.

Now elite speed IS one part of what makes Worthy as a prospect. But you're using speed as a disqualifier. Afterall, no one can name one blazing WR other than Tyreek Hill that has become a good WR. (Not true btw..what is your cut off for blazing? 4.29? Is 4.41 not fast? 4.35? Plenty of fast successful wide receivers). But would Aiyuk not be even better if he had 4.3 speed? Would Tyreek not be good if he ran a 4.5 flat?

If teams want to consistently jam Worthty at the line, they better keep a safety over top. But now you're dedicating 2 defenders to Worthy...that's a win. Otherwise, you better hope it works, or he's leaving for a chunk gain.

Contested catch ability is valuable, but it's value is dependent. Obviously, the best wide receivers can do it all, but contested catch ability matters less when you can create separation, and you have a QB who throws on time. And Worthy is a pretty good route runner with the hip sink ability and start/stop quickness to develop well beyond "mid"

Lastly, I'm not exactly sure who here has been "fawning" over speed, or really where that has even been mentioned in the context of our interaction. Ross has knee issues and Ruggs killed a person. They didn't fail because they run fast.

Worthy is extreme boom/bust .
Pearsall is very safe pick very likely to succeed.
Worthy wasn't even good RAC at Texas
Pearsall weighs 30 pounds more and averaged better RAC

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by communist:
the WR class is pretty stacked. He is very fast, ok, but according to some scouting reports his character sucks, he is not physical by any means, and he does not catch everything he should have to.
To me, this is not a first rounder.

I mean, everyone remembers Stephen Hill, right? Or, already mentioned, John Ross. Why the f... doesnt the NFL learn its lessons?

Worthy is a significantly better prospect. The only thing they have in common is elite speed.

Lol I was looking up John Ross stats to attempt a snarky comment given Worthys strong/promising start and whoa...in 2018 he had only 21 catches for only 210 yards....and SEVEN touchdowns?!