2024 Draft Class: OL

Originally posted by NCommand:
Wrongo.

2019 Chiefs HAD a tier 1 OL. We had a tier 1 DL. I'd say our DL was > over their OL through 3Q. But like we just saw in 2023, in the 4Q (and O.T.), when it mattered most, their OL produced 1 total pressure and were able to run/pass comfortably (no, PM was NOT scrambling around making backyard plays). On the flip side, our OL s**t the bed in every way possible (penalties, hits, sacks, 50% pressure rate, protection calls, ad libs, etc.).

And no, it wasn't just Chris Jones killing drives and opportunities either. When you're giving up a 50%+ pressure rate in both games IN a quick-pass offense, the entire unit is getting worked.

Like I always said, you can do a lot as a "unit" but eventually, your talent is going to have to stand on its own when it matters. And that's where ours failed, badly x3.

I don't know how much more evidence a fan could get that it wasn't good enough. Honestly, it's embarrassing there is still a very small minority who still can't see the correlation. Had we had even moderate play at a unit that effects everything else, we might have 2 more chips right now with the last one being a Bucs vs.Chiefs-like blowout.

Again, as to the Chiefs OL, they are NOT the gold standard. They were high tier 2 last year. I used them as an example of how one can build an OL differently from the traditional T-C-T combo. Andy built a tier 1 interior + adequate T's and countered with a quick-pass offense (one of the fastest TTT in the league).

But if they add a top T in this draft to their current interior, you can bet your ass they'll end up right back in tier 1 overall. And that's scary for the league.

Let's move this team building discussion to the OL thread. Let's not derail a great thread anymore.

Or just PM me and we can talk.

He most certainly is not wrong.

Since when is an interior OL consisting of Andrew Wylie, Austin Reiter & Laurent Duvernay-Tardif look at as tier one? OH and if they're were great, guess when they were all draft?! UDFA/7th/6th 😱

Everything else you wrote has nothing to do with what he stated.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Your "evaluations" are great. Your "valuation" is a proven fail. Let's break the insanity this year.

PS: Nobody said we SHOULD draft a G at 31.

But if the 2nd best G, 5th best C and 8th best T is there at 31, you better damn well consider the G.

Good because we SHOULDN'T use a 1st rd pick on a guard.

And THAT is why your valuation is a proven fail.

And as a 49er fan, you have no excuses to still think like this. All the evidence has been right in front of your NY-stubborn face.

But whatever. It's a deep OL draft so there are many directions the FO can go here.

But the fact you simply dismiss taking a top G at 31 (basically a 2nd round pick + 5th year option), simply because it's a G, is telling.

It tells me your archaic draft strategy >>>>>> favorite team's biggest (costly) need.

No more derailing...back to prospects.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
He most certainly is not wrong.

Since when is an interior OL consisting of Andrew Wylie, Austin Reiter & Laurent Duvernay-Tardif look at as tier one? OH and if they're were great, guess when they were all draft?! UDFA/7th/6th 😱

Everything else you wrote has nothing to do with what he stated.

Their entire unit was tier 1 in 2019 per BT.

Yes, that can be achieved using many combinations. They certainly shut down the best DL we've ever had here when it mattered.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Not if the 2nd best guard is rated in the 60s but the 8th best tackle is in the 30s.

He doesn't know that because he doesn't even know who the prospects are…he tells me I'm good with my evaluations, but also hates that those prospects don't have to be 1st rd picks…make it make sense

Originally posted by NCommand:
Their entire unit was tier 1 in 2019 per BT.

Yes, that can be achieved using many combinations. They certainly shut down the best DL we've ever had here when it mattered.

So wait you can invest literally nothing on interior line and be tier one??? Or maybe stop listening to Thorn and only him. He's a good source. He's not the holy bible.

reiter has played on 7 teams. Andrew Wylie Has played for 5 teams 3 of which he was signed on the practice squad and was released. You told me guards are valuable, yet they get passed around more than a blunt at a party lol.

LDT was a serviceable RG who's known more for being a doctor than a really good guard in football. He's already retired. Solid investment in the 6th rd lol.

So you're saying a bunch of avg IOL can shutdown a good DL? So it's like you don't need to invest a billion dollars and a bunch of 1st rd picks to make it all work 🫢

fwiw they didn't shutdown s**t. Mahomes was scrambling around all game. Bosa was destroying their "tier 1" OTs all the same.

Originally posted by NCommand:
And THAT is why your valuation is a proven fail.

Why because I've been able to find very good guards that don't cost a 1st?? Why because the league has been able to find good guards on day 2/3 every damn year? Most highly paid guards are not 1st rd picks. You can't say that for EDGE/DT/OT….WHY? Because they're premium position that cost top end picks to acquire most often. It's not f**king rocket science.

Investing a 1st in a non-premium position is f**king stupid. So with that same idea you would have no problem drafting a RB in the first? You won't answer that one lol. Deleted it in your response is see lol.

you just WANT to overspend on a position that you do NOT have to do that at. I've broken it down for you countless times.

Yes please stop derailing this thread. If you want to talk about prospects then do it…if not, then go somewhere else to complain about guards.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
So wait you can invest literally nothing on interior line and be tier one??? Or maybe stop listening to Thorn and only him. He's a good source. He's not the holy bible.

Yes, absolutely. Like you're advocating, there are lots of ways to build up a top unit. If you can do it with the least amount of capital (like we do with LB's), that's even more ideal.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Why because I've been able to find very good guards that don't cost a 1st??

You just WANT to overspend on a position that you do NOT have to do that at. I've broken it down for you countless times.

Yes, hence why your evaluations are usually very good.

There's one problem though. Reality. YOU don't run this FO. They have proven they can't do that after 7 freaking off seasons.

So until this FO can ID top G talent much later in the draft, everything should be on the table. Yes, including a top G at 31.

The most important thing is filling a top need with high talent. If that happens to be a G, nobody should b***h about that. Especially a 49er fan.

Yes, moving on...it was you and Adrian who kept these conversations going this morning. I'll stop responding now. Agree to disagree.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Yes, absolutely. Like you're advocating, there are lots of ways to build up a top unit. If you can do it with the least amount of capital (like we do with LB's), that's even more ideal.

Yes, hence why your evaluations are usually very good.

There's one problem though. Reality. YOU don't run this FO. They have proven they can't do that after 7 freaking off seasons.

So until this FO can ID top G talent much later in the draft, everything should be on the table. Yes, including a top G at 31.

The most important thing is filling a top need with high talent. If that happens to be a G, nobody should b***h about that. Especially a 49er fan.

Yes, moving on...it was you and Adrian who kept these conversations going this morning. I'll stop responding now. Agree to disagree.

They've proven they can slap together the guard spot and become consistently one of the best teams in the league for the past 5 yrs. Consistent NFCCs multiple SB apprentices and one of the best records in football. Losses are not on one thing. Never are…you cherry pick one thing because you want it to be just that…which isn't reality. It's a factor but not the only one.

You s**t on the coaching, yet he's taken guys like Tomlinson/burnskill/Burford/person/brendel/banks and JF and made them serviceable…..JF was a top 5 guard this yr! Yes they need to improve there, they can always do that. Doesn't require a 1st. never will require that. I'm all for grabbing guards at their appropriate value in the grand scheme of building a roster. It's the same reason I was pissed they drafted a kicker in the 3rd. Need yes…value f**king horrible. Stop that s**t.

Adrian is absolutely right. Again you didn't answer my question. If RB is a need and the RB2 is sitting there in the 1st do you take him over OT5/OG4/CB3 (which are all needs)? You won't say yes because YOU YOURSELF have said we shouldn't be drafting RBs early…dime a dozen. It's the same concept, only difference is it not what you want.

yea agree go disagree

While I would love them to get a center for the future…I just feel like they never draft centers then go for the vets.

NCommand just curious what Olinemen would you grab at 31 and which ones would you pass on?

Originally posted by miked1978:
NCommand just curious what Olinemen would you grab at 31 and which ones would you pass on?

He doesn't know. If it works out, whether a 1st or 7th pick, it was the correct move. If it doesn't work out, the niners just aren't trying hard enough.

I can tell you what he's looking for, though. He's looking for a unit that magically improves by 10x in the 4th quarter of superbowls. You see, because you might be talented enough to get the job done in the first 3 quarters, but if you just simply don't get the job done in the 4th, it's your fault. We need a team comprised of middling individual talent that, after drinking Gatorade in the 4th quarter, is able to carry the team to victory. The proof is all there; continue to be too stubborn to see it, and you just might never see a superbowl victory ever again

Originally posted by NYniner85:
NC, you're a consistent echo chamber of nonsense on this topic. You continue to argue with no one. There's not a single poster here that has said don't improve at guard. NOT ONE. Including me.

your first statement contradicts itself. So I'm good at evaluating guards BUT you don't like where they're drafted WTF? I've shown you countless examples of why you do not have to overdraft them in the 1st. I've shown you how the league is collectively made up of mostly guards that are NOT first rd picks. Most of the highly paid ones are not 1st rd picks. These are facts.

Good because we SHOULDN'T use a 1st rd pick on a guard. We shouldn't be taking converted OTs with the idea of playing them only at OG. You do that s**t later in drafts.

Your last statement means nothing to me because you don't even know who the 2nd ranked guard is…I'm talking about who actually played guard in college. Not transitioning a OT inside because they're not talented enough to play outside. That alone tells you the difference in value between OT and OG.

If you want to use that same model, then we should take RB2 over OT7 or OG5, right?! I'm sure you'd be down with that. It's the same s**t. There's premium positions and there's everything else…you want to overpay and over draft at a non-premium position because you're obsessed with guard. I'm telling you that YOU CAN get good talent on day 2/3 all the same. Look at the players in the league AND this draft or don't….and continue to yell at the wall because that's all it is at this point.

Make no mistake. Command picks Joe Alt for the Bears and converts him to guard if he were the GM.

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:
He doesn't know. If it works out, whether a 1st or 7th pick, it was the correct move. If it doesn't work out, the niners just aren't trying hard enough.

I can tell you what he's looking for, though. He's looking for a unit that magically improves by 10x in the 4th quarter of superbowls. You see, because you might be talented enough to get the job done in the first 3 quarters, but if you just simply don't get the job done in the 4th, it's your fault. We need a team comprised of middling individual talent that, after drinking Gatorade in the 4th quarter, is able to carry the team to victory. The proof is all there; continue to be too stubborn to see it, and you just might never see a superbowl victory ever again

Only the OLs fault too mind you. No other position group or player actually shoulders any blame. Lip service will be given to "other problems" while consistently coming back to the OL cost SBs.

Originally posted by miked1978:
NCommand just curious what Olinemen would you grab at 31 and which ones would you pass on?

I was only discussing likely scenarios at 31 for OL.

I don't watch college ball. I'd recommend asking that question of the SME's in here, no matter their personal draft strategy.

I only focus on team needs and FA plans. I used to rely on this thread to supplement those plans at addressing our biggest needs but after 7 years of 0 return from this FO from this thread, I'm passing this year.

If they fix it, they fix it. If they don't, we already know the competitive bridesmaid outcome.

How about you? Do you have some preferences? A specific draft strategy?

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by miked1978:
NCommand just curious what Olinemen would you grab at 31 and which ones would you pass on?

He doesn't know. If it works out, whether a 1st or 7th pick, it was the correct move. If it doesn't work out, the niners just aren't trying hard enough.

I can tell you what he's looking for, though. He's looking for a unit that magically improves by 10x in the 4th quarter of superbowls. You see, because you might be talented enough to get the job done in the first 3 quarters, but if you just simply don't get the job done in the 4th, it's your fault. We need a team comprised of middling individual talent that, after drinking Gatorade in the 4th quarter, is able to carry the team to victory. The proof is all there; continue to be too stubborn to see it, and you just might never see a superbowl victory ever again

You're an odd one. LOL