Who's on your do NOT draft list?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:
I do not think he oversets because of a lack of length. Arguably the best vertical set of all time belongs to Joe Thomas who had sub 34" arms. Length can help to cover up deficiencies (though I'd argue that's more wing span than pure arm length), but Rosengarten has the range to get to his landmark without prematurely opening his hips; and his explosives testing backs up the film. IMO, it's either coaching or a distrust in his ability to anchor if he doesn't completely beat the defender to his spot and so he's selling out. This is fixable. He is aggressive; his pass pro is not passive. He obviously prefers to jump set, and he doesn't have trouble getting first hands and latching on - his length does not present as a liability.

As an aside, I was looking up his wingspan and just realized Brandon Thorn ALSO comped him to Spencer Brown, coincidentally enough

IMO part of the reason for oversetting is because he doesn't trust his length. I think that's also why his aggressiveness can get him in trouble. He knows he's gotta get to his spot quickly, get hands on a guy fast because he doesn't have that length to fall back on.

I'm not saying he's awful or anything. I do like him (at a certain draft spot). He has some things that limit his ceiling at the next level. Length and strength. He can improve on the strength, I don't think he's gonna become some super strong guy who can handle power extremely well though.

FWIW thorn has a 4h rd grade on him.

Maybe I'm watching the wrong games, but I really don't see length as an issue. It's not like he's a scooper or catcher who just sits there with low hands and gets locked out. Having an extra half inch at the end of each arm isn't making his lower half any stronger.

Originally posted by bigpete50:
Roger Rosebushgarden at #31. I'd take him in round 3 all day but not before. When we do have first rounders, the Niners often reach instead of taking BAP. I'll puke if we take RR at 31.

What he said^^^^^^^

Do not take the guy with short arms. Do not take the guy who started only 8 games. Do not take the guy who needs to learn how to run block, or other developmental linemen. Bite the bullet and trade up for a plug and play OT who can replace McKivitt this year and move to LT when Trent retires. Do not draft a boy to do a man's job.

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:
I have no idea what YPT is or whatever other fantasy oriented metrics might say, but Quin Ewers sucked ass as a deep passer.

Yards per target. That's not a fantasy metric. Quin did suck….

Originally posted by krizay:
He sucked in general. In watching Mitchell I seen him having to break stride alot which hurts his YAC

Worse in the draft at YAC though…that's not just a QB issue

ANYONE with the last names of…….
drunkenmiller
mcquarters
mcgrew
rumph
harris
woods
balmer
jenkins
thomas/foster
kinlaw

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:
Maybe I'm watching the wrong games, but I really don't see length as an issue. It's not like he's a scooper or catcher who just sits there with low hands and gets locked out. Having an extra half inch at the end of each arm isn't making his lower half any stronger.

Yea his arm length is the same as Joe Staley and longer than Joe Thomas. I don't see that as an issue personally

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Worse in the draft at YAC though…that's not just a QB issue

I watched every target and catch. I seen nothing from him that suggests he wouldn't have YAC in THIS offense.



I Stopped half way through. It's all moot anyway due to his non football issues

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Worse in the draft at YAC though…that's not just a QB issue

I watched every target and catch. I seen nothing from him that suggests he wouldn't have YAC in THIS offense.



I Stopped half way through. It's all moot anyway due to his non football issues

I mean I didn't see anything special there as far as YAC goes…the numbers are the numbers end of the day. It's not easier to get YAC in the NFL vs college. Also doesn't Sark run some of Kyle's stuff anyway?

I agree it's a moot point with the other stuff. I still like the kid, overall I'm not a massive fan of either of the Texas guys in the 1st.

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:
Maybe I'm watching the wrong games, but I really don't see length as an issue. It's not like he's a scooper or catcher who just sits there with low hands and gets locked out. Having an extra half inch at the end of each arm isn't making his lower half any stronger.

How he counters not having ideal length is his punch timing/aggressiveness to get hands on a guy first. That's a double edge sword however. That also comes with oversetting and overextending (Michigan game). At that point you're f**ked a lot of the time…he's athletic, so he can recover sometimes.

again I like him, I think he's a starting level RT once he gets stronger. The length isn't ideal. It's also not a "he can't play OT" at the next level either….However it will be an issue from time to time in the NFL.

Any value goes out the window if you're taking him in the 1st. He's just not that caliber of talent right now. End of the 2nd/early 3rd is where he should go imo.

for me I have my grade on guys…and I stick with that grade. I'm not gonna talk myself into him being a 1st rd guy just because he's being mocked to only us at that point.

maybe unpopular opinion here, but Laiatu Latu. Probably wouldn't be in a position to draft him anyways, but I watched him every game last 2 years, and he is great in NCAA, and at UCLA, but I just don't see it transitioning to the NFL at the same impact. He reminds me of AJ Epenesa, who also had top 15 hype but turned out to be a good player, just not great. I'd see Latu at a 2nd round value.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:
Maybe I'm watching the wrong games, but I really don't see length as an issue. It's not like he's a scooper or catcher who just sits there with low hands and gets locked out. Having an extra half inch at the end of each arm isn't making his lower half any stronger.

How he counters not having ideal length is his punch timing/aggressiveness to get hands on a guy first. That's a double edge sword however. That also comes with oversetting and overextending (Michigan game). At that point you're f**ked a lot of the time…he's athletic, so he can recover sometimes.

again I like him, I think he's a starting level RT once he gets stronger. The length isn't ideal. It's also not a "he can't play OT" at the next level either….However it will be an issue from time to time in the NFL.

Any value goes out the window if you're taking him in the 1st. He's just not that caliber of talent right now. End of the 2nd/early 3rd is where he should go imo.

for me I have my grade on guys…and I stick with that grade. I'm not gonna talk myself into him being a 1st rd guy just because he's being mocked to only us at that point.

Im not discussing his value, only his "scouting report," and honestly just as discussion not as argument. I guess we just have different views on evaluating the tackle position. I think his aggressiveness is his nature, and has nothing to do with "short" arms. A ton of tackles flame out of the league because they lack punch timing/aggressiveness/quick hands. After all, what good are long arms if you don't use them? Doesn't matter how long your arms are if you're late, or passive. See: Kingsley Suamataia.

Overextending is a coaching/technique and/or strength issue. See: Tyler Guyton. Ridiculous length, always over his skis. He made Darius Robinson a lot of money because he wouldn't stop over extending at the Senior bowl.

Oversetting: again, not a length issue. Length can help if you DONT have range, because you can use your arms to reach where your feet can't take you. See: Dawand Jones; not a bad mover, but it doesnt matter if he cant reach his spot against wide rushers, because they arent getting around that body anyway. But If you have the range in your vertical set because of your explosion and athletic ability, you don't need your arms to cast a wide net, and you don't need to open your hips prematurely, giving an soft inside go. See: Joe Thomas. Short arms, amazing vertical set.

Again, outside of super outliers like 31" arms, length helps to mitigate issues, but Rosengarten has the natural tools to mitigate length issues. His biggest issue is lower body strength and consistent pad level...if a skilled edge is going to long arm him to death, it wouldn't matter if he had 34" arms, 1 arm is longer than 2

Originally posted by BP13:
maybe unpopular opinion here, but Laiatu Latu. Probably wouldn't be in a position to draft him anyways, but I watched him every game last 2 years, and he is great in NCAA, and at UCLA, but I just don't see it transitioning to the NFL at the same impact. He reminds me of AJ Epenesa, who also had top 15 hype but turned out to be a good player, just not great. I'd see Latu at a 2nd round value.

Depends how bad the medicals are. Possibility he falls.

Always happens on draft day. We see some top 40 guy drop and drop and drop and then finally the coverage says yeah this guys knee or whatever is done for and its like why didnt you tell us before...?

Originally posted by Brucey72:
A lot of people assume that he will be a Safety bc of the way he looks. That was my assumption as well until I actually watched some of his tape. The guy can be a good CB in the league. I don't think he will be an elite CB but could be a pro bowler in the right scheme. I think he is more of early 2nd type of guy tho.
My top CBs are
Mitchell
Arnold
Wiggins
DeJean
Tampa
Kool Aid

I think it's his hips more than anything. I think he's a great S/Zone nickel that could be an outstanding moveable chess piece in 5db sets.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I mean I didn't see anything special there as far as YAC goes…the numbers are the numbers end of the day. It's not easier to get YAC in the NFL vs college. Also doesn't Sark run some of Kyle's stuff anyway?

I agree it's a moot point with the other stuff. I still like the kid, overall I'm not a massive fan of either of the Texas guys in the 1st.

I didn't see anything special either. I didn't post it for that reason. I also didn't see where there was YAC to be had and he failed to get it becauseofbhis lack of ability. What I did see was belief that he could rack up YAC in this offense. I'm not just talking scheme either.