2025 Draft Prospect Watch List and Discussion

• How bad are Simmons Knees? Red Flag bad or do we just guess ists a major red flag?

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:
Connerly really is the middle class man's Josh Simmons but with healthy knees.

Totally not overrated.

Id be very happy with connerly.

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by ChaunceyGardner:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I've never really understood the concern with arm lenght. If it's an inch or so does it really make that much difference? Not like comparing a kangaroo with an orangutan.

This

It's just math, the longer the arms the further the DE has to go to get around them. Longer the arms the further out of the rush arc the defender is pushed

You will never prove to me that one inch in arm length makes any real difference. Technique, buk and speed are far more important. It's the same with hand size. 1/8" or even 1/4"don't matter that much.

If you're talking about large differences then these arguments have some validity but people say that Brock has small hands even though they're the same size as Mahomes and bigger than Goff or Burrow.

But brock does have small hands, and we've seen the negatives of that, particularly in poor weather games.

Measure ables offset other weaknesses or strength. For instance, you can have big hands but poor grip strength. Or you can have small hands but strong grip strength.

You can have slow feet but long arms. You can have short arms but quick feet.

You can have low weight but immense strength. You can have high weight but have drake jackson strength.

Arm length matters, it's just notba definitive death sentence or guaranteed path towards the HOF. It is undeniable that it takes more steps to run around a wider object. It also undeniable that longer lever arms provide more leverage.

I'm not saying that hand size or arm lengthdon't matter. What I'm saying is that one inch of arm length or 1/8" in hand size is insignificant. If you're comaring a guy with 36 inch arms to aguy with 32 inch arm then it might be an issue If you're looking at a guy with 10 inch hands and comparing him to someone wth 9 inch hands then it might matter. Why don't people say Mahomes has small hands? Why don't they say Burrow and Goff have small hands? I n=know why. It's because they play great mot of the time and people don't need to try and find excuses for their poor play.

Eexcept, in the context of this conversation, we're talking about as prospects. Small hands is always listed as an area of concern for QB prospects. Once in the NFL, if it doesn't end up being a problem, it isn't mentioned. If your QB has shown a tendency not not be able to grip the ball in wet conditions, then yes, small hands is brought up again as a negative, because, well, it is.

If it was related rto hand size that much then why don't Mahomes, Burrow and Goff have problems. It's more about how the grio the ball. Some may grip it tighter than others. All I know for sure is I wouldn't draft a player based on a small difference in hand size or arm length any more than I would by his combine performance. Game film and actual on field results are far more important. The NFL teams love to over analyze players with all the stuff at the combine and they still miss on over half the draft picks.

Ive already answered that question. The same way not everyone has the same size hands, not everyone has the same grip strength. You can offset the negative of small hands with good grip strength. This doesn't mean small hands isn't a concern.

NFL teams miss on over half the draft picks. That's where the observation ends. There is nothing to suggest that they would hit more frequently if they would just ignore the combine, or ignore measurable, or ignore game tape. It's an inexact science, but the more favorable data points you have, the better. It's worth remembering, especially early, teams are drafting for the home run lottery pick, the franchise defining player with the highest ceiling. All other things being equal, a bigger, faster, stronger more athletic player will have a higher ceiling. But it's like gambling, higher reward requires higher risk with a much lower probability of winning.

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by ChaunceyGardner:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I've never really understood the concern with arm lenght. If it's an inch or so does it really make that much difference? Not like comparing a kangaroo with an orangutan.

This

It's just math, the longer the arms the further the DE has to go to get around them. Longer the arms the further out of the rush arc the defender is pushed

You will never prove to me that one inch in arm length makes any real difference. Technique, buk and speed are far more important. It's the same with hand size. 1/8" or even 1/4"don't matter that much.

If you're talking about large differences then these arguments have some validity but people say that Brock has small hands even though they're the same size as Mahomes and bigger than Goff or Burrow.

But brock does have small hands, and we've seen the negatives of that, particularly in poor weather games.

Measure ables offset other weaknesses or strength. For instance, you can have big hands but poor grip strength. Or you can have small hands but strong grip strength.

You can have slow feet but long arms. You can have short arms but quick feet.

You can have low weight but immense strength. You can have high weight but have drake jackson strength.

Arm length matters, it's just notba definitive death sentence or guaranteed path towards the HOF. It is undeniable that it takes more steps to run around a wider object. It also undeniable that longer lever arms provide more leverage.

I'm not saying that hand size or arm lengthdon't matter. What I'm saying is that one inch of arm length or 1/8" in hand size is insignificant. If you're comaring a guy with 36 inch arms to aguy with 32 inch arm then it might be an issue If you're looking at a guy with 10 inch hands and comparing him to someone wth 9 inch hands then it might matter. Why don't people say Mahomes has small hands? Why don't they say Burrow and Goff have small hands? I n=know why. It's because they play great mot of the time and people don't need to try and find excuses for their poor play.

Eexcept, in the context of this conversation, we're talking about as prospects. Small hands is always listed as an area of concern for QB prospects. Once in the NFL, if it doesn't end up being a problem, it isn't mentioned. If your QB has shown a tendency not not be able to grip the ball in wet conditions, then yes, small hands is brought up again as a negative, because, well, it is.

If it was related rto hand size that much then why don't Mahomes, Burrow and Goff have problems. It's more about how the grio the ball. Some may grip it tighter than others. All I know for sure is I wouldn't draft a player based on a small difference in hand size or arm length any more than I would by his combine performance. Game film and actual on field results are far more important. The NFL teams love to over analyze players with all the stuff at the combine and they still miss on over half the draft picks.

Ive already answered that question. The same way not everyone has the same size hands, not everyone has the same grip strength. You can offset the negative of small hands with good grip strength. This doesn't mean small hands isn't a concern.

NFL teams miss on over half the draft picks. That's where the observation ends. There is nothing to suggest that they would hit more frequently if they would just ignore the combine, or ignore measurable, or ignore game tape. It's an inexact science, but the more favorable data points you have, the better. It's worth remembering, especially early, teams are drafting for the home run lottery pick, the franchise defining player with the highest ceiling. All other things being equal, a bigger, faster, stronger more athletic player will have a higher ceiling. But it's like gambling, higher reward requires higher risk with a much lower probability of winning.

You're ignoring what I'm saying. Size can matter if it's a significant difference but NFL teams often get to hung up on what they see at the combine. If hand size was a major factor then a lot of QBs wouldn't have been drafted in the first round. If all other things like on field performance are equal then the arm length and hand size apparantly aren't affecting their performance. Since the combine has become a major thing we havent seen any big improvement in the game. These players are skipping bowl games to train for the combine so they can run a little faster or lift a little more. A lot of them put on extra weight if they think it will help or drop weight so theycan runfaster. Then they get back to their real playing weight and those times are meaningless. It's actually become a TV event and a way for the league to keep their name out there. That's why they stretched it out to 3 days now.

Brock's hands are considered small because he has trouble in wet weather. Mahomes hands are the same size and he doesn't. So is it handsize or the way they grip the ball?

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:
Connerly really is the middle class man's Josh Simmons but with healthy knees.

Totally not overrated.

Id be very happy with connerly.

With #11? Man that's a bit rich for me. Would seem like the Mike McGlinchey reach all over again with CLEARLY better players available

Definitely wouldn't be my first choice, just wouldn't hate the player is all. With how I'm assuming the first ten picks go, I'll probably be advocating for a trade down on draft day. I dont think there are even more than 7 blue chip prospects assuming 2 or 3 QBs go top 10 (which isnt guaranteed). I do think Connerly is a bit underrated currently

Originally posted by 49ersFan_vienna:

• How bad are Simmons Knees? Red Flag bad or do we just guess ists a major red flag?

Don't think anyone really knows yet

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:
Connerly really is the middle class man's Josh Simmons but with healthy knees.

Totally not overrated.

Id be very happy with connerly.

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by ChaunceyGardner:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I've never really understood the concern with arm lenght. If it's an inch or so does it really make that much difference? Not like comparing a kangaroo with an orangutan.

This

It's just math, the longer the arms the further the DE has to go to get around them. Longer the arms the further out of the rush arc the defender is pushed

You will never prove to me that one inch in arm length makes any real difference. Technique, buk and speed are far more important. It's the same with hand size. 1/8" or even 1/4"don't matter that much.

If you're talking about large differences then these arguments have some validity but people say that Brock has small hands even though they're the same size as Mahomes and bigger than Goff or Burrow.

But brock does have small hands, and we've seen the negatives of that, particularly in poor weather games.

Measure ables offset other weaknesses or strength. For instance, you can have big hands but poor grip strength. Or you can have small hands but strong grip strength.

You can have slow feet but long arms. You can have short arms but quick feet.

You can have low weight but immense strength. You can have high weight but have drake jackson strength.

Arm length matters, it's just notba definitive death sentence or guaranteed path towards the HOF. It is undeniable that it takes more steps to run around a wider object. It also undeniable that longer lever arms provide more leverage.

I'm not saying that hand size or arm lengthdon't matter. What I'm saying is that one inch of arm length or 1/8" in hand size is insignificant. If you're comaring a guy with 36 inch arms to aguy with 32 inch arm then it might be an issue If you're looking at a guy with 10 inch hands and comparing him to someone wth 9 inch hands then it might matter. Why don't people say Mahomes has small hands? Why don't they say Burrow and Goff have small hands? I n=know why. It's because they play great mot of the time and people don't need to try and find excuses for their poor play.

Eexcept, in the context of this conversation, we're talking about as prospects. Small hands is always listed as an area of concern for QB prospects. Once in the NFL, if it doesn't end up being a problem, it isn't mentioned. If your QB has shown a tendency not not be able to grip the ball in wet conditions, then yes, small hands is brought up again as a negative, because, well, it is.

If it was related rto hand size that much then why don't Mahomes, Burrow and Goff have problems. It's more about how the grio the ball. Some may grip it tighter than others. All I know for sure is I wouldn't draft a player based on a small difference in hand size or arm length any more than I would by his combine performance. Game film and actual on field results are far more important. The NFL teams love to over analyze players with all the stuff at the combine and they still miss on over half the draft picks.

Ive already answered that question. The same way not everyone has the same size hands, not everyone has the same grip strength. You can offset the negative of small hands with good grip strength. This doesn't mean small hands isn't a concern.

NFL teams miss on over half the draft picks. That's where the observation ends. There is nothing to suggest that they would hit more frequently if they would just ignore the combine, or ignore measurable, or ignore game tape. It's an inexact science, but the more favorable data points you have, the better. It's worth remembering, especially early, teams are drafting for the home run lottery pick, the franchise defining player with the highest ceiling. All other things being equal, a bigger, faster, stronger more athletic player will have a higher ceiling. But it's like gambling, higher reward requires higher risk with a much lower probability of winning.

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by ChaunceyGardner:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I've never really understood the concern with arm lenght. If it's an inch or so does it really make that much difference? Not like comparing a kangaroo with an orangutan.

This

It's just math, the longer the arms the further the DE has to go to get around them. Longer the arms the further out of the rush arc the defender is pushed

You will never prove to me that one inch in arm length makes any real difference. Technique, buk and speed are far more important. It's the same with hand size. 1/8" or even 1/4"don't matter that much.

If you're talking about large differences then these arguments have some validity but people say that Brock has small hands even though they're the same size as Mahomes and bigger than Goff or Burrow.

But brock does have small hands, and we've seen the negatives of that, particularly in poor weather games.

Measure ables offset other weaknesses or strength. For instance, you can have big hands but poor grip strength. Or you can have small hands but strong grip strength.

You can have slow feet but long arms. You can have short arms but quick feet.

You can have low weight but immense strength. You can have high weight but have drake jackson strength.

Arm length matters, it's just notba definitive death sentence or guaranteed path towards the HOF. It is undeniable that it takes more steps to run around a wider object. It also undeniable that longer lever arms provide more leverage.

I'm not saying that hand size or arm lengthdon't matter. What I'm saying is that one inch of arm length or 1/8" in hand size is insignificant. If you're comaring a guy with 36 inch arms to aguy with 32 inch arm then it might be an issue If you're looking at a guy with 10 inch hands and comparing him to someone wth 9 inch hands then it might matter. Why don't people say Mahomes has small hands? Why don't they say Burrow and Goff have small hands? I n=know why. It's because they play great mot of the time and people don't need to try and find excuses for their poor play.

Eexcept, in the context of this conversation, we're talking about as prospects. Small hands is always listed as an area of concern for QB prospects. Once in the NFL, if it doesn't end up being a problem, it isn't mentioned. If your QB has shown a tendency not not be able to grip the ball in wet conditions, then yes, small hands is brought up again as a negative, because, well, it is.

If it was related rto hand size that much then why don't Mahomes, Burrow and Goff have problems. It's more about how the grio the ball. Some may grip it tighter than others. All I know for sure is I wouldn't draft a player based on a small difference in hand size or arm length any more than I would by his combine performance. Game film and actual on field results are far more important. The NFL teams love to over analyze players with all the stuff at the combine and they still miss on over half the draft picks.

Ive already answered that question. The same way not everyone has the same size hands, not everyone has the same grip strength. You can offset the negative of small hands with good grip strength. This doesn't mean small hands isn't a concern.

NFL teams miss on over half the draft picks. That's where the observation ends. There is nothing to suggest that they would hit more frequently if they would just ignore the combine, or ignore measurable, or ignore game tape. It's an inexact science, but the more favorable data points you have, the better. It's worth remembering, especially early, teams are drafting for the home run lottery pick, the franchise defining player with the highest ceiling. All other things being equal, a bigger, faster, stronger more athletic player will have a higher ceiling. But it's like gambling, higher reward requires higher risk with a much lower probability of winning.

You're ignoring what I'm saying. Size can matter if it's a significant difference but NFL teams often get to hung up on what they see at the combine. If hand size was a major factor then a lot of QBs wouldn't have been drafted in the first round. If all other things like on field performance are equal then the arm length and hand size apparantly aren't affecting their performance. Since the combine has become a major thing we havent seen any big improvement in the game. These players are skipping bowl games to train for the combine so they can run a little faster or lift a little more. A lot of them put on extra weight if they think it will help or drop weight so theycan runfaster. Then they get back to their real playing weight and those times are meaningless. It's actually become a TV event and a way for the league to keep their name out there. That's why they stretched it out to 3 days now.

Brock's hands are considered small because he has trouble in wet weather. Mahomes hands are the same size and he doesn't. So is it handsize or the way they grip the ball?

We can agree to disagree, but I really don't think it's me doing the ignoring here. People grip the ball the way they do because of the size of their hand. It's not like Purdy is intentionally gripping the ball wrong. Small hands appear to be an issue for Purdy - he has difficulty gripping a wet ball. They do not appear to be an issue for mahomes. If purdy had the same exact grip strength, but longer fingers and a bigger palm, i can all but guarantee you he would have a better grip on the football.

Originally posted by Drod1008:
Both tackles looked slow and were outplayed by osu de and lbs. Armand Membou or Josh connerly should be the tackles picked

Yup. Not a fan of the TX OTs. I like these two much better for sure. Conerly is only 20 and will fill up more. The tools are already there and he's been improving since last season. I like Membou a lot and he's also young and underrated so far. If we somehow decide to trade down a little to like mid-late teens and pick up some picks, we can get one of these 2. Then we can also trade up from 2nd if we need to get a Jack Sawyer, Landon Jackson or any other ER that we like.

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:
Definitely wouldn't be my first choice, just wouldn't hate the player is all. With how I'm assuming the first ten picks go, I'll probably be advocating for a trade down on draft day. I dont think there are even more than 7 blue chip prospects assuming 2 or 3 QBs go top 10 (which isnt guaranteed). I do think Connerly is a bit underrated currently

Don't think anyone really knows yet

I actually wouldn't hate the player as well because I do agree that Connerly is being a bit underrated right now. I do expect that to change over these next few months.

I'm curious on who your blue chip prospects are? Who would you say are can't miss Adrian?

Originally posted by 49ers808:
With #11? Man that's a bit rich for me. Would seem like the Mike McGlinchey reach all over again with CLEARLY better players available

Ive said this before but I wouldn't be shocked if he goes that high when all is said and done. I think he'll absolutely kill the offseason. Guys like Fuaga weren't seen as early to mid first round locks until a month or two prior to the draft. There's already mock drafts that have Conerly going in the early 20s for example.

When I watch him, I don't see what he's missing that you'd want from a modern left tackle. With McGlinchey, the guy was always going to be locked in to playing right tackle and you hoped his dominant run blocking would be able to offset so so to poor pass blocking.

I see a lot of Rashawn Slater when I watch Conerly.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by 49ers808:
With #11? Man that's a bit rich for me. Would seem like the Mike McGlinchey reach all over again with CLEARLY better players available

Ive said this before but I wouldn't be shocked if he goes that high when all is said and done. I think he'll absolutely kill the offseason. Guys like Fuaga weren't seen as early to mid first round locks until a month or two prior to the draft. There's already mock drafts that have Conerly going in the early 20s for example.

When I watch him, I don't see what he's missing that you'd want from a modern left tackle. With McGlinchey, the guy was always going to be locked in to playing right tackle and you hoped his dominant run blocking would be able to offset so so to poor pass blocking.

I see a lot of Rashawn Slater when I watch Conerly.

Completely agree with you bro; I actually changed my tune in my post right before yours lol. Conerly is actually my favorite tackle in the draft; I think he fits this team perfectly.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by 49ers808:
With #11? Man that's a bit rich for me. Would seem like the Mike McGlinchey reach all over again with CLEARLY better players available

Ive said this before but I wouldn't be shocked if he goes that high when all is said and done. I think he'll absolutely kill the offseason. Guys like Fuaga weren't seen as early to mid first round locks until a month or two prior to the draft. There's already mock drafts that have Conerly going in the early 20s for example.

When I watch him, I don't see what he's missing that you'd want from a modern left tackle. With McGlinchey, the guy was always going to be locked in to playing right tackle and you hoped his dominant run blocking would be able to offset so so to poor pass blocking.

I see a lot of Rashawn Slater when I watch Conerly.

Oh that's right! I forgot about the rise of Fuaga last draft. By the time we get to the combine, Conerly will be right up there for sure. Forget about what I said about trading a little with my above post from 11. If this is our guy, take the player at 11.

Originally posted by 49ers808:
I'm curious on who your blue chip prospects are? Who would you say are can't miss Adrian?

I think we're on the same page.
Mason Graham, DT
Abdul Carter, EDGE
Will Johnson, CB
Malaki Starks, S

Travis Hunter, CB and Will Campbell, OG would be my next two closest. Josh Simmons, OT would have been with a healthy knee and a larger sample size of the same quality.

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by 49ers808:
I'm curious on who your blue chip prospects are? Who would you say are can't miss Adrian?

I think we're on the same page.
Mason Graham, DT
Abdul Carter, EDGE
Will Johnson, CB
Malaki Starks, S

Travis Hunter, CB and Will Campbell, OG would be my next two closest. Josh Simmons, OT would have been with a healthy knee and a larger sample size of the same quality.

Hunter; I know by all accounts is a great kid. I just have a weird feeling that he will turn into a drama queen. Could be because of all the fame, his girlfriend, or Prime, it's just a feeling I have. His talent is undeniable though and I wouldn't hesitate on him either (no chance I know)

Campbell; I'm not sure what position he's going to play. At OG, I agree with you, he's very close for me too.

Simmons is OT1 with a healthy knee. Hell, he might still be the first tackle off the board despite the injury

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by 49ers808:
I'm curious on who your blue chip prospects are? Who would you say are can't miss Adrian?

I think we're on the same page.
Mason Graham, DT
Abdul Carter, EDGE
Will Johnson, CB
Malaki Starks, S

Travis Hunter, CB and Will Campbell, OG would be my next two closest. Josh Simmons, OT would have been with a healthy knee and a larger sample size of the same quality.

Hunter; I know by all accounts is a great kid. I just have a weird feeling that he will turn into a drama queen. Could be because of all the fame, his girlfriend, or Prime, it's just a feeling I have. His talent is undeniable though and I wouldn't hesitate on him either (no chance I know)

Campbell; I'm not sure what position he's going to play. At OG, I agree with you, he's very close for me too.

Simmons is OT1 with a healthy knee. Hell, he might still be the first tackle off the board despite the injury

I hope for Hunters sake he finds a new one before she causes an Aldon Smith kinda mental break.

I hope they don't take an OT just to take one if they're not sold on him. Say you have a guy like Starks on the board because I feel he may be the last blue chip d prospect left at 11 you have to take him right? Starks easily comes in starts from day one and can be a game changer in the secondary

Originally posted by FredFlintstone:
I hope they don't take an OT just to take one if they're not sold on him. Say you have a guy like Starks on the board because I feel he may be the last blue chip d prospect left at 11 you have to take him right? Starks easily comes in starts from day one and can be a game changer in the secondary

I don't hate the idea of Starks but I think the Niners are going to feel pretty good about finding impact DBs later in the draft. If Hufanga doesn't resign this is a possibility. Even then, they would be letting go a Pro Bowl safety they took in the 6th round because he got a huge contract, I think they would look for another sleeper in the draft since that has been the pattern with DBs

Originally posted by ChaunceyGardner:

Originally posted by FredFlintstone:
I hope they don't take an OT just to take one if they're not sold on him. Say you have a guy like Starks on the board because I feel he may be the last blue chip d prospect left at 11 you have to take him right? Starks easily comes in starts from day one and can be a game changer in the secondary

I don't hate the idea of Starks but I think the Niners are going to feel pretty good about finding impact DBs later in the draft. If Hufanga doesn't resign this is a possibility. Even then, they would be letting go a Pro Bowl safety they took in the 6th round because he got a huge contract, I think they would look for another sleeper in the draft since that has been the pattern with DBs

I think Starks would be a big upgrade to Huff especially in the pass game.
I also hope they don't take a Tackle at #11 just to take one. I know it's early but I don't see an Elite tackle in this draft and overall not too impressed with the o line prospects in general. This is definitely a deep DT and edge draft. We should load up on defense, try to get a Center in FA or trade and draft a few later OL to develop. Last year was the OL draft I wish we had come out of that with at least one more prospect.