With the 11th overall pick..

Originally posted by Kolohe:
But you're judging him a pure athleticism. Didn't we pretty much do that with Trey Lance?

I'm not judging him either way. Nowhere have I said I think he should be the pick at 11. I'm just saying using his stats as the end all be all is kinda silly.

Originally posted by Kolohe:
I'm not using stats to determine if that player is good or not. I'm using the stats to say that I wouldn't take him at 11.

So then Graham isn't good at 11 because of the lack of stats? Right?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
But you're judging him a pure athleticism. Didn't we pretty much do that with Trey Lance?

I'm not judging him either way. Nowhere have I said I think he should be the pick at 11. I'm just saying using his stats as the end all be all is kinda silly.

If I know the player, know he has talent, know he has a motor. Why can't I use his stats to form my own opinion?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
I'm not using stats to determine if that player is good or not. I'm using the stats to say that I wouldn't take him at 11.

So then Graham isn't good at 11 because of the lack of stats? Right?

But he doesn't have a lack of stats, he does his job as a DT. A tactician that's good at both the run and pass. Honestly think his values along the lines of the 11th to 15th overall pick. But since he's the best overall DT he'll most likely go higher.

Honestly I think Tyliek Williams is right there with him. But a lot of draft pundits would obviously disagree with me.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Colton was far from bad last yr. If anything he might price himself out after another season here.

I have no idea why people think Banks is worth a top 11 pick? I don't see it with him, especially as a run-blocker. Campbell isn't gonna play tackle for this team with his arm length…just not gonna be a thing. Membou would be my dude and he probably plays OG yr1 then moves to OT. I also don't expect him to make it to us.

There's almost a zero chance they don't go DL with one of those first two picks.

If they don't come away with a top tier DL and go OL the 1st 3 picks I think that's a failure for this draft. I also don't think that's how this team operates.

I expect day a 3 swing tackle and a developmental IOL. I'm expecting 3 DL, RB, DB and a WR that can all complete and play this yr.

I agree.

I don't know why guys are so eager to replace McKivitz. He's young, reliable, on a cheap contract and is an ascending player who is getting better every year. RT is among the least important positions for us to upgrade on IMO. If anything I think we should extend him.

As for DLine, if we don't come out of this draft with a starting edge AND starting DT we are in worlds of trouble.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
But you're judging him a pure athleticism. Didn't we pretty much do that with Trey Lance?

I'm not judging him either way. Nowhere have I said I think he should be the pick at 11. I'm just saying using his stats as the end all be all is kinda silly.

If I know the player, know he has talent, know he has a motor. Why can't I use his stats to form my own opinion?

Because imo you're using his lack of stats as a reason as to why you don't want him (which is fine that's your opinion)….just keep it consistent, you negate the lack of stats for a guy like Graham because you like him.

It's not like he's getting completely owned week to week or there's no pressure. There was multiple instances of him wining his reps having a QB dead to rights, but simply didn't come down with the sack. That's my main issues is the lack of finishing. I feel like that's a totally correctable thing.

For someone that values stats so much a couple of those completely change your outlook on him. Then toss in scheme and what they asked him to do vs what we would and it changes some things imo.

Like I said I don't know where I have Stewart or if I'd want him at 11. I think his very interesting and if he's coachable, he's got a really high ceiling.

JHC at this point im tired of hearing about the draft and wish it to be over. I know Bonilla has ties to this website right? But damn how many puff pieces with different draft outcomes can you have. Just stop. Every article is from the same person with limited actual writing and facts.

Truth be told we can GUESS or speculate all we want based off what we all THINK they are going to do. We don't know tho.

OOriginally posted by Kolohe:
But he doesn't have a lack of stats, he does his job as a DT. A tactician that's good at both the run and pass. Honestly think his values along the lines of the 11th to 15th overall pick. But since he's the best overall DT he'll most likely go higher.

Honestly I think Tyliek Williams is right there with him. But a lot of draft pundits would obviously disagree with me.

I mean no way should we or anyone be drafting a DT top 10ish who's not elite level pass rusher. His stats don't show that, yet we'd all love to pick him.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
But you're judging him a pure athleticism. Didn't we pretty much do that with Trey Lance?

+ Show all quotes
I'm not judging him either way. Nowhere have I said I think he should be the pick at 11. I'm just saying using his stats as the end all be all is kinda silly.

If I know the player, know he has talent, know he has a motor. Why can't I use his stats to form my own opinion?

Because imo you're using his lack of stats as a reason as to why you don't want him (which is fine that's your opinion)….just keep it consistent, you negate the lack of stats for a guy like Graham because you like him.

It's not like he's getting completely owned week to week or there's no pressure. There was multiple instances of him wining his reps having a QB dead to rights, but simply didn't come down with the sack. That's my main issues is the lack of finishing. I feel like that's a totally correctable thing.

For someone that values stats so much a couple of those completely change your outlook on him. Then toss in scheme and what they asked him to do vs what we would and it changes some things imo.

Like I said I don't know where I have Stewart or if I'd want him at 11. I think his very interesting and if he's coachable, he's got a really high ceiling.

Why I use stats between Stewart and why not Graham. Because my ideal DE should be more productive in the pass rushing department than just talent. Problem is no one can really say why Stewarts production is so low. People wanna point all the pretty things he can do, but why has he been unable to put it together? I for one refuse to believe its because of coaching. I also refuse to believe that his upside is worth the 11th pick. Again its what I believe, your problem is your too busy trying to prove me wrong.

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Why I use stats between Stewart and why not Graham. Because my ideal DE should be more productive in the pass rushing department than just talent. Problem is no one can really say why Stewarts production is so low. People wanna point all the pretty things he can do, but why has he been unable to put it together? I for one refuse to believe its because of coaching. I also refuse to believe that his upside is worth the 11th pick. Again its what I believe, your problem is your too busy trying to prove me wrong.

Why do you refuse to look at coaching and what they're asked to do? My god you can look at his teammate Scourton and see a dip in his production from Purdue to TA&M.

Why would someone with his athletic ability/upside not have enough upside to be the 11th pick? If we're looking solely on upside, there probably isn't a prospect who's got more in this draft. I don't follow there.

I'm not trying to prove you wrong, I'm showing you that you're being hypocritical based on stats for one guy but not the other. Why would you not what your top 10 DT to be more productive as a pass rusher?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Oscar8325:
First off he was 2024 all SEC third team, 4.5 sacks in a 3 year college career from a DE is not great but he had a hell of a combine. Speed, vertical, etc were all great. To me, that's raw talent and the problem is the raw talent can be something to build and be great or can also be a complete flop.

And good stats in college don't always translate to the pros. If we want to stick with the QB theme. Mac Jones and dozens of other QBs come to mind.

you still didn't tell me what was raw about his game.

Everything, raw talent is something that someone is good at naturally. This kid is an athletic freak with god given abilities like speed, vertical jump. That's all great but that is not worth the #11 pick. , I don't think those natural abilities will make him a good DE in the NFL when he wasn't even that good in college. 4.5 sacks in 3 years, third team all SEC. I would of liked to see at least double digit sacks and first team all SEC. Quick comparison to the DT's I'd like in Graham and Nolen. Graham 24 tackles, 3.5 sacks, Nolen 26 tackles, 6.5 sacks, Stewart 14 tackles, 1.5 sacks. As a DE Stewart should have at least more sacks and doesn't.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Why I use stats between Stewart and why not Graham. Because my ideal DE should be more productive in the pass rushing department than just talent. Problem is no one can really say why Stewarts production is so low. People wanna point all the pretty things he can do, but why has he been unable to put it together? I for one refuse to believe its because of coaching. I also refuse to believe that his upside is worth the 11th pick. Again its what I believe, your problem is your too busy trying to prove me wrong.

Why do you refuse to look at coaching and what they're asked to do? My god you can look at his teammate Scourton and see a dip in his production from Purdue to TA&M.

Why would someone with his athletic ability/upside not have enough upside to be the 11th pick? If we're looking solely on upside, there probably isn't a prospect who's got more in this draft. I don't follow there.

I'm not trying to prove you wrong, I'm showing you that you're being hypocritical based on stats for one guy but not the other. Why would you not what your top 10 DT to be more productive as a pass rusher?

Hypocritical how, just cause you don't like one players stats to another doesn't make it hypocritical. Especially when you're trying to compare two different positions. Now if I'm comparing two DE's that is hypocritical. Like I said I think Graham is around 11-15th pick but he'll go higher because he's anointed the best DT in this draft.

You're trying to show me I'm being hypocritical, how is that different from proving me wrong again?

Originally posted by Kolohe:
But he doesn't have a lack of stats, he does his job as a DT. A tactician that's good at both the run and pass. Honestly think his values along the lines of the 11th to 15th overall pick. But since he's the best overall DT he'll most likely go higher.

Honestly I think Tyliek Williams is right there with him. But a lot of draft pundits would obviously disagree with me.

Im with you on tyleik. I have him, Nolan Harmon all on par with each other.

Would definitely take extra picks plus Tyleik over just Graham or Nolan

Originally posted by Oscar8325:
Everything, raw talent is something that someone is good at naturally. This kid is an athletic freak with god given abilities like speed, vertical jump. That's all great but that is not worth the #11 pick. , I don't think those natural abilities will make him a good DE in the NFL when he wasn't even that good in college. 4.5 sacks in 3 years, third team all SEC. I would of liked to see at least double digit sacks and first team all SEC. Quick comparison to the DT's I'd like in Graham and Nolen. Graham 24 tackles, 3.5 sacks, Nolen 26 tackles, 6.5 sacks, Stewart 14 tackles, 1.5 sacks. As a DE Stewart should have at least more sacks and doesn't.

Again you provided nothing in regards of what he's raw at.

you're purely evaluating players based off stats.

Sacks are some of the most hollow stats and don't provide the total picture of a DL.

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hypocritical how, just cause you don't like one players stats to another doesn't make it hypocritical. Especially when you're trying to compare two different positions. Now if I'm comparing two DE's that is hypocritical. Like I said I think Graham is around 11-15th pick but he'll go higher because he's anointed the best DT in this draft.

You're trying to show me I'm being hypocritical, how is that different from proving me wrong again?

Because Mason has bad sack stats just like SS, yet you got not problem with Mason's stats. It's a very hypocritical way to evaluate players at lease keep it on par for everyone.