With the 11th overall pick..

Originally posted by krizay:
Im with you on tyleik. I have him, Nolan Harmon all on par with each other.

Would definitely take extra picks plus Tyleik over just Graham or Nolan

I like Williams as a tire 2 guy. Peebles Is another DT that's got some juice as a pass rusher that I would love to have on day 2/3

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by krizay:
Im with you on tyleik. I have him, Nolan Harmon all on par with each other.

Would definitely take extra picks plus Tyleik over just Graham or Nolan

I like Williams as a tire 2 guy. Peebles Is another DT that's got some juice as a pass rusher that I would love to have on day 2/3

Your thoughts on Elijah Roberts as a mid round guy?

Originally posted by Willisfn4life:
Your thoughts on Elijah Roberts as a mid round guy?

Haven't watched him at all

Originally posted by Willisfn4life:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by krizay:
Im with you on tyleik. I have him, Nolan Harmon all on par with each other.

Would definitely take extra picks plus Tyleik over just Graham or Nolan

I like Williams as a tire 2 guy. Peebles Is another DT that's got some juice as a pass rusher that I would love to have on day 2/3

Your thoughts on Elijah Roberts as a mid round guy?

He's eclipsed at least 60 pressures back to back seasons. Has adequate bend for a big guy. Can rush the passer inside and out. He's even played some wide 9. Everything I've read is he had a strong week of practices during the shrine bowl week.

I think his hand placement could use some work but I find him to be an intriguing developmental option.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hypocritical how, just cause you don't like one players stats to another doesn't make it hypocritical. Especially when you're trying to compare two different positions. Now if I'm comparing two DE's that is hypocritical. Like I said I think Graham is around 11-15th pick but he'll go higher because he's anointed the best DT in this draft.

You're trying to show me I'm being hypocritical, how is that different from proving me wrong again?

Because Mason has bad sack stats just like SS, yet you got not problem with Mason's stats. It's a very hypocritical way to evaluate players at lease keep it on par for everyone.

Its because DT's are not known for high sack total stats. Pass rushing is a huge plus for a DT. They're not known for 10-15 sacks in college like a DE is. They get like 7-9 sacks at most, pretty rare to see a 10-15 sack DT. That's why I don't worry about sack totals with DT's.

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Its because DT's are not known for high sack total stats. Pass rushing is a huge plus for a DT. They're not known for 10-15 sacks in college like a DE is. They get like 7-9 sacks at most, pretty rare to see a 10-15 sack DT. That's why I don't worry about sack totals with DT's.

They're not known for 9.5 in 3 yrs. At least top 10 guys

kinlaw had as many sacks his last yr as Mason did his last two…stats aren't the end all be all dude

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Its because DT's are not known for high sack total stats. Pass rushing is a huge plus for a DT. They're not known for 10-15 sacks in college like a DE is. They get like 7-9 sacks at most, pretty rare to see a 10-15 sack DT. That's why I don't worry about sack totals with DT's.

They're not known for 9.5 in 3 yrs. At least top 10 guys

kinlaw had as many sacks his last yr as Mason did his last two…stats aren't the end all be all dude

Athleticism and talent aren't either. When I ask you the reason for his sack total being so low, you tell me coaching and just look at his teammate. C'mon isn't there a tweet out there that could help us find out why?

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I like Williams as a tire 2 guy. Peebles Is another DT that's got some juice as a pass rusher that I would love to have on day 2/3

He, Norman Lott, Ty Robinson and JJP other guys I like.

All this talk about Shemar Stewart…despite my major reluctance for us to grab a player who is too much projection it's tough not to see the potential vision there.

I already mentioned the easy comp to Ziggy Ansah, who happened to be drafted by a team running the wide 9 coached by Kocurek.

I'll be very curious who will fall to us at 11 and most likely I'll be rooting for a trade down unless Membou or Mason Graham fall but with the depth at DT in this class I can definitely see Stewart being the pick.

And if he's the pick I'll hope like hell that between Coach K and Bosa, these guys basically lock themselves in a room and drill pass rush technique like their SB lives are depending on it.

I saw the Trey Lance comp earlier and definitely don't agree with that one. First of all scheme is a part of the issue with lack of sacks there, Stewart still has great production playing the run and has played for 3 years and has improved his pressure rate.

Originally posted by genus49:
All this talk about Shemar Stewart…despite my major reluctance for us to grab a player who is too much projection it's tough not to see the potential vision there.

I already mentioned the easy comp to Ziggy Ansah, who happened to be drafted by a team running the wide 9 coached by Kocurek.

I'll be very curious who will fall to us at 11 and most likely I'll be rooting for a trade down unless Membou or Mason Graham fall but with the depth at DT in this class I can definitely see Stewart being the pick.

And if he's the pick I'll hope like hell that between Coach K and Bosa, these guys basically lock themselves in a room and drill pass rush technique like their SB lives are depending on it.

I saw the Trey Lance comp earlier and definitely don't agree with that one. First of all scheme is a part of the issue with lack of sacks there, Stewart still has great production playing the run and has played for 3 years and has improved his pressure rate.

How is scheme part of the issue? When you watch his highlights he's firing off one on one vs the OT. I could see of he engaged then backed off, but that's simply not the case.

I think its a fair comparison between Stewart and Trey Lance. For one Trey Lance was a one hit wonder and Stewart has very little production in the pass rush department.

Too much projection like you said, I'd hate to see them make that same mistake twice.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I like Williams as a tire 2 guy. Peebles Is another DT that's got some juice as a pass rusher that I would love to have on day 2/3

He, Norman Lott, Ty Robinson and JJP other guys I like.

Yes! If we somehow trade down a little in the late teens/20s, we got some nice ammo to address quite a few needs and get younger. Throw in TJ Sanders, Harmon, Alexander if we go take one in the end of 1st/early 2nd if we decide to pass on Nolen at 11. We can get out with at least 3-4 players in DL and reshape this unit.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by genus49:
All this talk about Shemar Stewart…despite my major reluctance for us to grab a player who is too much projection it's tough not to see the potential vision there.

I already mentioned the easy comp to Ziggy Ansah, who happened to be drafted by a team running the wide 9 coached by Kocurek.

I'll be very curious who will fall to us at 11 and most likely I'll be rooting for a trade down unless Membou or Mason Graham fall but with the depth at DT in this class I can definitely see Stewart being the pick.

And if he's the pick I'll hope like hell that between Coach K and Bosa, these guys basically lock themselves in a room and drill pass rush technique like their SB lives are depending on it.

I saw the Trey Lance comp earlier and definitely don't agree with that one. First of all scheme is a part of the issue with lack of sacks there, Stewart still has great production playing the run and has played for 3 years and has improved his pressure rate.

How is scheme part of the issue? When you watch his highlights he's firing off one on one vs the OT. I could see of he engaged then backed off, but that's simply not the case.

I think its a fair comparison between Stewart and Trey Lance. For one Trey Lance was a one hit wonder and Stewart has very little production in the pass rush department.

Too much projection like you said, I'd hate to see them make that same mistake twice.

I already made a pretty sizeable post about his strengths and weaknesses, and explicitly stated that, while scheme plays a sizeable role, it cannot and should not be used to exclusively excuse his lack of production. But I think you are confused by what we are saying.

His highlights show him fire off the ball....that should be a good thing. That means, when he DOES fire off the ball, he creates a highlight worthy play. Of course he does this in his highlight, that's why they're highlights. Also, you're misunderstanding what we mean by scheme limitations. We are not saying read and react as in, engage your man, hold the edge, read the play, react. In the context of their scheme read and react means, at the snap, they stand straight up and read the play. It's subtle, you're not gonna see a player standing still for 3 seconds. But for rushing the passer, that half second matters. And then it compounds with NOT firing upfield and losing that explosive element. So even tho they're moving, they aren't maximizing the speed to which they can get to the QB, and production will underwhelming as a result.

As previously mentioned, his current weakness is that he is slow to recognize things. So now, those two scheme disadvantages compound even further because not only is "reading and reacting" slow, but he's even slower to do that. And then it compounds FURTHER because it limits his biggest strength (which is what makes him a rare prospect), his size-adjusted athleticism.

He needs to work on play recognition. He needs to work on pass rush plan. He needs to hone in the top of his rush, learn to throttle down...he needs to improve his footwork to offset his (what i perceive as) tight ankles. But getting into our scheme, he can immediately upgrade our run defense, while accentuating what makes him a rare ceiling player as a pass rusher.

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:
I already made a pretty sizeable post about his strengths and weaknesses, and explicitly stated that, while scheme plays a sizeable role, it cannot and should not be used to exclusively excuse his lack of production. But I think you are confused by what we are saying.

His highlights show him fire off the ball....that should be a good thing. That means, when he DOES fire off the ball, he creates a highlight worthy play. Of course he does this in his highlight, that's why they're highlights. Also, you're misunderstanding what we mean by scheme limitations. We are not saying read and react as in, engage your man, hold the edge, read the play, react. In the context of their scheme read and react means, at the snap, they stand straight up and read the play. It's subtle, you're not gonna see a player standing still for 3 seconds. But for rushing the passer, that half second matters. And then it compounds with NOT firing upfield and losing that explosive element. So even tho they're moving, they aren't maximizing the speed to which they can get to the QB, and production will underwhelming as a result.

As previously mentioned, his current weakness is that he is slow to recognize things. So now, those two scheme disadvantages compound even further because not only is "reading and reacting" slow, but he's even slower to do that. And then it compounds FURTHER because it limits his biggest strength (which is what makes him a rare prospect), his size-adjusted athleticism.

He needs to work on play recognition. He needs to work on pass rush plan. He needs to hone in the top of his rush, learn to throttle down...he needs to improve his footwork to offset his (what i perceive as) tight ankles. But getting into our scheme, he can immediately upgrade our run defense, while accentuating what makes him a rare ceiling player as a pass rusher.

This is a damn good post. I'm one that is very hesitant on him; but this makes a lot of sense

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by genus49:
All this talk about Shemar Stewart…despite my major reluctance for us to grab a player who is too much projection it's tough not to see the potential vision there.

I already mentioned the easy comp to Ziggy Ansah, who happened to be drafted by a team running the wide 9 coached by Kocurek.

I'll be very curious who will fall to us at 11 and most likely I'll be rooting for a trade down unless Membou or Mason Graham fall but with the depth at DT in this class I can definitely see Stewart being the pick.

And if he's the pick I'll hope like hell that between Coach K and Bosa, these guys basically lock themselves in a room and drill pass rush technique like their SB lives are depending on it.

I saw the Trey Lance comp earlier and definitely don't agree with that one. First of all scheme is a part of the issue with lack of sacks there, Stewart still has great production playing the run and has played for 3 years and has improved his pressure rate.

How is scheme part of the issue? When you watch his highlights he's firing off one on one vs the OT. I could see of he engaged then backed off, but that's simply not the case.

I think its a fair comparison between Stewart and Trey Lance. For one Trey Lance was a one hit wonder and Stewart has very little production in the pass rush department.

Too much projection like you said, I'd hate to see them make that same mistake twice.

I already made a pretty sizeable post about his strengths and weaknesses, and explicitly stated that, while scheme plays a sizeable role, it cannot and should not be used to exclusively excuse his lack of production. But I think you are confused by what we are saying.

His highlights show him fire off the ball....that should be a good thing. That means, when he DOES fire off the ball, he creates a highlight worthy play. Of course he does this in his highlight, that's why they're highlights. Also, you're misunderstanding what we mean by scheme limitations. We are not saying read and react as in, engage your man, hold the edge, read the play, react. In the context of their scheme read and react means, at the snap, they stand straight up and read the play. It's subtle, you're not gonna see a player standing still for 3 seconds. But for rushing the passer, that half second matters. And then it compounds with NOT firing upfield and losing that explosive element. So even tho they're moving, they aren't maximizing the speed to which they can get to the QB, and production will underwhelming as a result.

As previously mentioned, his current weakness is that he is slow to recognize things. So now, those two scheme disadvantages compound even further because not only is "reading and reacting" slow, but he's even slower to do that. And then it compounds FURTHER because it limits his biggest strength (which is what makes him a rare prospect), his size-adjusted athleticism.

He needs to work on play recognition. He needs to work on pass rush plan. He needs to hone in the top of his rush, learn to throttle down...he needs to improve his footwork to offset his (what i perceive as) tight ankles. But getting into our scheme, he can immediately upgrade our run defense, while accentuating what makes him a rare ceiling player as a pass rusher.

I think you're right when it comes to reading the play. but what you and the highlights failed to mention is that he lines up in a 4i B-gap, 0 Nose, 4i B-gap, Mint-Front . From what I've read, their job is to basically close off lanes in between the tackles, pretty much like a 3-4 End, so to speak.



And lining up there limits the DE opportunities to rush the passer. When he's rushing off the edge he checks the play with a inside step towards the B-gap to make sure it's not a pass. So it's not necessarily standing up and reading, it's where he's lining up on a Mint-Front, Georgia also runs the same front. So I guess I should've just looked it up but I was just curious to find out from you people.

But still, with the #11 pick, nah I'd rather trade down to the 20's and take him there.