Roethlisberger accused of sexual assault (suspended 6 games)

Originally posted by crzy:
Having sex with someone who is drunk is not sexual assault.

It's classless, but it's not assault.

The victim is one whom the actor knew or should have known was physically helpless, mentally defective or mentally incapacitated.

The actor is aided or abetted by one or more other persons and the actor uses physical force or coercion

Some general definitions of Aggravated Sexual Assault

EDIT: I'm trying to find the Georgia state laws, which will obviously be more useful for this discussion.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by crzy:
I'm siding with Big Ben until he gets charged.

I don't care i he's a douche since I don't know him personally, but he's not a rapist until he gets charged at the very least.

Let's review again for the slow readers. Here are the facts.

1) Police and prosecuters investigated for weeks at a time interviewing volumes of witnesses.

2) No arrest was ever made.

3) No charges were ever filed.

4) No trail ever took place.

5) No conviction was ever obtained.

So it's nothing at all. That's the bottom line. These guys want to make something out of it when it's nothing.

And the "they let a super star athlete get away with it" blabber is rediculous bunk. Both Police and Prosecutors would love to convict Ben of anything even if they weren't sure. Careers would be made, promotions would be handed out, they would get $3 Million book deals and they would hang it on their wall like a badge of courage for the rest of their life. It would make their career and reputation forever. If anything they want him to be guilty even if he is not. Yet they investigated and tried to find something and couldn't come up with anything at all.

I agree with your viewpoint.


The way I see it, Big Ben is a pervert who likes to take his penis out in front of underage college girls and is a sloppy drunk.

But he's no rapist. The moral outrage is a little over the top.

If I was an NFL general manager, I would try to steal Big Ben right now from the Steelers for cheap. I bet they'd accept a third round pick.

Originally posted by crzy:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by crzy:
I'm siding with Big Ben until he gets charged.

I don't care i he's a douche since I don't know him personally, but he's not a rapist until he gets charged at the very least.

Let's review again for the slow readers. Here are the facts.

1) Police and prosecuters investigated for weeks at a time interviewing volumes of witnesses.

2) No arrest was ever made.

3) No charges were ever filed.

4) No trail ever took place.

5) No conviction was ever obtained.

So it's nothing at all. That's the bottom line. These guys want to make something out of it when it's nothing.

And the "they let a super star athlete get away with it" blabber is rediculous bunk. Both Police and Prosecutors would love to convict Ben of anything even if they weren't sure. Careers would be made, promotions would be handed out, they would get $3 Million book deals and they would hang it on their wall like a badge of courage for the rest of their life. It would make their career and reputation forever. If anything they want him to be guilty even if he is not. Yet they investigated and tried to find something and couldn't come up with anything at all.

I agree with your viewpoint.


The way I see it, Big Ben is a pervert who likes to take his penis out in front of underage college girls and is a sloppy drunk.

But he's no rapist. The moral outrage is a little over the top.

If I was an NFL general manager, I would try to steal Big Ben right now from the Steelers for cheap. I bet they'd accept a third round pick.

IMO he shouldn't be suspended at all by the NFL or the Steelers. He didn't do anything. Ben has never, ever been convicted of even 1 crime in his entire life. There is no reason to suspend him. He's a great QB. And he helps them win games. They should play him.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by crzy:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by crzy:
I'm siding with Big Ben until he gets charged.

I don't care i he's a douche since I don't know him personally, but he's not a rapist until he gets charged at the very least.

Let's review again for the slow readers. Here are the facts.

1) Police and prosecuters investigated for weeks at a time interviewing volumes of witnesses.

2) No arrest was ever made.

3) No charges were ever filed.

4) No trail ever took place.

5) No conviction was ever obtained.

So it's nothing at all. That's the bottom line. These guys want to make something out of it when it's nothing.

And the "they let a super star athlete get away with it" blabber is rediculous bunk. Both Police and Prosecutors would love to convict Ben of anything even if they weren't sure. Careers would be made, promotions would be handed out, they would get $3 Million book deals and they would hang it on their wall like a badge of courage for the rest of their life. It would make their career and reputation forever. If anything they want him to be guilty even if he is not. Yet they investigated and tried to find something and couldn't come up with anything at all.

I agree with your viewpoint.


The way I see it, Big Ben is a pervert who likes to take his penis out in front of underage college girls and is a sloppy drunk.

But he's no rapist. The moral outrage is a little over the top.

If I was an NFL general manager, I would try to steal Big Ben right now from the Steelers for cheap. I bet they'd accept a third round pick.

IMO he shouldn't be suspended at all by the NFL or the Steelers. He didn't do anything. Ben has never, ever been convicted of even 1 crime in his entire life. There is no reason to suspend him. He's a great QB. And he helps them win games. They should play him.

I agree with this as well.

I'm sick and tired of Goodell playing a dictator. It's a slippery slope when he starts suspending people who have not been arrested or charged.

well, apparently it IS illegal to have sex in Georgia:

An unmarried person commits the offense of fornication when he voluntarily has sexual intercourse with another person and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished as for a misdemeanor.
Link to Georgia State laws

Originally posted by HessianDud:
well, apparently it IS illegal to have sex in Georgia:

An unmarried person commits the offense of fornication when he voluntarily has sexual intercourse with another person and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished as for a misdemeanor.
Link to Georgia State laws

Fornication is illegal in America. lol

Prisons aren't big enough

Originally posted by crzy:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by crzy:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by crzy:
I'm siding with Big Ben until he gets charged.

I don't care i he's a douche since I don't know him personally, but he's not a rapist until he gets charged at the very least.

Let's review again for the slow readers. Here are the facts.

1) Police and prosecuters investigated for weeks at a time interviewing volumes of witnesses.

2) No arrest was ever made.

3) No charges were ever filed.

4) No trail ever took place.

5) No conviction was ever obtained.

So it's nothing at all. That's the bottom line. These guys want to make something out of it when it's nothing.

And the "they let a super star athlete get away with it" blabber is rediculous bunk. Both Police and Prosecutors would love to convict Ben of anything even if they weren't sure. Careers would be made, promotions would be handed out, they would get $3 Million book deals and they would hang it on their wall like a badge of courage for the rest of their life. It would make their career and reputation forever. If anything they want him to be guilty even if he is not. Yet they investigated and tried to find something and couldn't come up with anything at all.

I agree with your viewpoint.


The way I see it, Big Ben is a pervert who likes to take his penis out in front of underage college girls and is a sloppy drunk.

But he's no rapist. The moral outrage is a little over the top.

If I was an NFL general manager, I would try to steal Big Ben right now from the Steelers for cheap. I bet they'd accept a third round pick.

IMO he shouldn't be suspended at all by the NFL or the Steelers. He didn't do anything. Ben has never, ever been convicted of even 1 crime in his entire life. There is no reason to suspend him. He's a great QB. And he helps them win games. They should play him.

I agree with this as well.

I'm sick and tired of Goodell playing a dictator. It's a slippery slope when he starts suspending people who have not been arrested or charged.

Exactly he isn't even arrested or charged. So why be suspended for nothing? It's rediculous to me. So Goodell is making some kind of judgement call based on "statements" that could not be backed up, proven, varified or followed through to an arrest and prosecution.

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by crzy:
Having sex with someone who is drunk is not sexual assault.

It's classless, but it's not assault.

The victim is one whom the actor knew or should have known was physically helpless, mentally defective or mentally incapacitated.

The actor is aided or abetted by one or more other persons and the actor uses physical force or coercion

Some general definitions of Aggravated Sexual Assault

EDIT: I'm trying to find the Georgia state laws, which will obviously be more useful for this discussion.

I looked through an overview of Georgia state laws, and while they have a distinction for "sexual battery" they don't define it as the website above defined it. The law is actually kind of vague, so I'm not sure if its the complete thing or not (I'm assuming it is because I saw the same list of laws and wordings on two different sites...) and I'm not sure if elsewhere there is an expansion of what "consent" means, like above.

so while its possible that Big Ben didn't clearly break any laws in Georgia, its also possible that he's lucky that he did it in Georgia and not somewhere else.

link

Legal experts praise DA in Georgia

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10107/1051139-66.stm

Quote:
Saturday, April 17, 2010
By Michael A. Fuoco, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
The decision by Georgia district attorney Fredric D. Bright not to file rape charges against Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger is receiving plaudits from legal scholars who agree he did not have a case that warranted prosecution.

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by HessianDud:


that's conjecture, but we agree on your second point for sure.

I too agree he did take advantage, but I also believe that he didn't "force" her either.

As I said previously, if a girl wants to get soooo drunk that she has little to no control, then thats HER issue, and maybe a guy shouldn't take advantage, morally speaking, but to do so is nowhere near rape. If she doesn't say no, or take an action to stop the sex, then she has no complaint imo.

Personally, I think girls that get THAT drunk do so on purpose so they can excuse behavior that will be frowned upon by their friends and family. Always seems that they can NEVER remember what happened the night before. That has NEVER happened to me, and I damn near died of achohol poisoning from being soooooooo drunk, yet remember every detail.

As I said, we would see a significant decrease in these accusations if the law would prosecute women likely to have filed a complaint knowing they weren't raped.

She says she said no.

Taking advantage of someone sexually IS sexual assault.

Just because you get hammered doesn't mean you waive any of your rights or responsibilities. If you commit a crime while drunk, you committed a crime. If a crime is committed against you while you're drunk, a crime was committed against you.

Alcohol affects different people differently and people get drunk for various reasons. Just because you've never blacked out, doesn't mean other people don't. And just because you think you remember everything that happened, doesn't mean you do.

I am 100% sure, without a doubt, that I remembered EVERYTHING the next day after tying one on, every single time. No I have not blacked out, but unless she is an alchy, she didn't eaither. Blackouts are the result of someone who has
a drinking problem, not some coed who went out one night and drank a few too many. People who aren't regular drinkers have a bevy of other symptoms before blacking out, most of which would have turned ol Ben right off.....

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by HessianDud:


that's conjecture, but we agree on your second point for sure.

I too agree he did take advantage, but I also believe that he didn't "force" her either.

As I said previously, if a girl wants to get soooo drunk that she has little to no control, then thats HER issue, and maybe a guy shouldn't take advantage, morally speaking, but to do so is nowhere near rape. If she doesn't say no, or take an action to stop the sex, then she has no complaint imo.

Personally, I think girls that get THAT drunk do so on purpose so they can excuse behavior that will be frowned upon by their friends and family. Always seems that they can NEVER remember what happened the night before. That has NEVER happened to me, and I damn near died of achohol poisoning from being soooooooo drunk, yet remember every detail.

As I said, we would see a significant decrease in these accusations if the law would prosecute women likely to have filed a complaint knowing they weren't raped.

She says she said no.

Taking advantage of someone sexually IS sexual assault.

Just because you get hammered doesn't mean you waive any of your rights or responsibilities. If you commit a crime while drunk, you committed a crime. If a crime is committed against you while you're drunk, a crime was committed against you.

Alcohol affects different people differently and people get drunk for various reasons. Just because you've never blacked out, doesn't mean other people don't. And just because you think you remember everything that happened, doesn't mean you do.

She claims she said no, but funny how nobody else heard that. One would think if a girl is being raped that she should be loud enough for one of those concerned friends to hear just the other side of a locked bathroom door.

She got slutty and then embarresed when her friends looked at her like a tramp. They were so shocked by her behavior that they assumed she had been violated some how and she was sooo ashamed of her loose legs that she went along with it.

I don't believe it for a second. Funny how all these accusations come to light when the guy is a professional and has tons of cash, but the girls never had a problem with Ben when he was a college superstar with little to no $$.

It is one possibility that she didn't want her friends to think she was slutty. I don't know if that's what happened but I don't dismiss it as a possibility.

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by HessianDud:


that's conjecture, but we agree on your second point for sure.

I too agree he did take advantage, but I also believe that he didn't "force" her either.

As I said previously, if a girl wants to get soooo drunk that she has little to no control, then thats HER issue, and maybe a guy shouldn't take advantage, morally speaking, but to do so is nowhere near rape. If she doesn't say no, or take an action to stop the sex, then she has no complaint imo.

Personally, I think girls that get THAT drunk do so on purpose so they can excuse behavior that will be frowned upon by their friends and family. Always seems that they can NEVER remember what happened the night before. That has NEVER happened to me, and I damn near died of achohol poisoning from being soooooooo drunk, yet remember every detail.

As I said, we would see a significant decrease in these accusations if the law would prosecute women likely to have filed a complaint knowing they weren't raped.

She says she said no.

Taking advantage of someone sexually IS sexual assault.

Just because you get hammered doesn't mean you waive any of your rights or responsibilities. If you commit a crime while drunk, you committed a crime. If a crime is committed against you while you're drunk, a crime was committed against you.

Alcohol affects different people differently and people get drunk for various reasons. Just because you've never blacked out, doesn't mean other people don't. And just because you think you remember everything that happened, doesn't mean you do.

I am 100% sure, without a doubt, that I remembered EVERYTHING the next day after tying one on, every single time. No I have not blacked out, but unless she is an alchy, she didn't eaither. Blackouts are the result of someone who has
a drinking problem, not some coed who went out one night and drank a few too many. People who aren't regular drinkers have a bevy of other symptoms before blacking out, most of which would have turned ol Ben right off.....

Memory is inherently unreliable. Its a semantic point, so you're correct, in a way, but my point is that when you get down to it, no one remembers EVERYTHING.

And you're right about blacking out, I misspoke. I meant having gaps in your memory where you can't recall how you got from A to B.

Originally posted by crzy:
Legal experts praise DA in Georgia

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10107/1051139-66.stm

Quote:
Saturday, April 17, 2010
By Michael A. Fuoco, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
The decision by Georgia district attorney Fredric D. Bright not to file rape charges against Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger is receiving plaudits from legal scholars who agree he did not have a case that warranted prosecution.

maybe he didn't have a case because the investigation was compromised...

Originally posted by HessianDud:
Georgai officer stepping down

Blash is the only officer who interviewed the quarterback. He acknowledged in an interview with investigators that he made some derogatory comments about the alleged victim to other officers.

...

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by crzy:
Legal experts praise DA in Georgia

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10107/1051139-66.stm

Quote:
Saturday, April 17, 2010
By Michael A. Fuoco, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
The decision by Georgia district attorney Fredric D. Bright not to file rape charges against Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger is receiving plaudits from legal scholars who agree he did not have a case that warranted prosecution.

maybe he didn't have a case because the investigation was compromised...

Originally posted by HessianDud:
Georgai officer stepping down

Blash is the only officer who interviewed the quarterback. He acknowledged in an interview with investigators that he made some derogatory comments about the alleged victim to other officers.

...

The derogatory comments were in relation to the fact that the officer said he didn't believe what she was telling him. She couldn't get her story straight and had multiple different versions of the story and was totally wasted drunk.

But you don't want to tell that side of the story.

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by HessianDud:


Yes, her friends thought she was being wronged, and when the girl was finally allowed to leave she acted in a way (going to find a cop) that seems to suggest that she thought so too. I'm not sure what you're point is.

My point is her friends got to her first. I don't think she accurately knows what happened.

I agree Big Ben took advantage of her but that doesn't mean he sexually assaulted her. If there's signs of distress this is a slam dunk case. But there wasn't so you can't rule out that she might have been game at some point during this incident.

why do you assume immediately that her friends can't be trusted, that their motivations are insincere, and that they're understanding of the situation is less than your own?

Taking advantage of someone implies knowingly capitalizing on someone's mistake. If Big Ben used her drunkenness to his advantage, knowing that she might not have otherwise consented, that's sexual assault.

If that was the case roughly 70% of America would be on the sex offender list.

I'm not assuming that her friends can't be trusted or that they were wrong in any way. What I'm saying is that them coming in to her console probally played a role here. Play the date rape card or be looked at as a skank. Tough call especially if you don't recall what happened that well and someone did take advantage of you.