Randy Moss Vs Jerry Rice-Let's be real.

Originally posted by 49ertrue1:
you guys are all idiots!!!! i swear to god, you still say nothing. I have heard plenty of coaches and players say Moss is the best. Including, Chris Carter, one of the best ever. Carter Moss was already better than Rice ever was when he was a rookie.

One trick pony comment, i mean that's why i posted this. How can you get 100 catches having 1 trick? Then this other guy talks about stats, uhh, Moss is breaking Rices TD record. Look up Rice's stats on wikipedia, you'll notice all the big time stats, Moss is either right behind, tied or GOING to break. Rice was more of a possession receiver, that's why he's got more catches.

& for the guy that said, no one would pick Moss over Rice? are you kidding? You know what Moss does on offense? He's the biggest threat ever, he brought Welkers catches from 67 - 120+. Moss is the common denominator in the 2 highest scoring offenses ever, PERIOD. I know, no rings, but Marino is still better than 98% of qb's ever. If Moss ends up getting a ring (which as you know, he was very close to being the main part of the only undefeated team in the modern era, prolly woulda been the best team ever, not just the best regular season team ever, as they still are)

I don't see why it's so hard to put Moss up there with Jerry, other than, you don't like Moss & Rice is your hero. Other than that, there is no argument to why Rice is better. & some fool said andre johnson and marvin harrison are better. ROFL, harrison isn't even in the league! that's why i posted it, most of you just don't know Moss.

I would take Moss to start a franchise over Rice anyday! You weirdo's forget, Rice, joined a 2 time superbowl team!

GET OUT OF THE PAST, RICE IN REALITY, CAN'T HOLD MOSS'S JOCK ON THE THINGS HE CAN DO. it's like you only watch the 49ers and turn off the t.v. at 4pm.

MOss set the rookie TD/season record in college & then do it in the pro's at a younger age than Rice was. Fact is, we've never seen a player that good before. & if you think so, your mistaken.

Why are you calling everyone here in idiot? Because they don't agree with your argument?

"Ether" broke down your arguments section by section earlier in the post and I agree with him about alot of what he said.

Just because you have talent and are athletic doesn't make you the greatest wide receiver by default. The game is just as much mental as it is physical. Rice knew every single one of his opponents weaknesses and exploited it. Rice was a far better route runner than Moss is and will ever be. This is what helped him in the later stages of his career when he lost his speed. Rice also was a very willing blocker and Moss did not like to block earlier in his career.

Rice is only the 3rd WR to earn Superbowl MVP honors for his performance in SB 23 catching 11 passes for 215 yards on the games grandest stage.

Another example of Rice's dominance is his performance against Deion Sanders, considered by many as the best coverage cornerback of all-time. From 1989 to 1996, Rice and Sanders faced off ten times, with Rice compiling 60 receptions for 1,051 yards and 11 receiving touchdowns against Sanders' teams (this would project to approximately 96 receptions for 1682 yards and 18 touchdowns in 16 games).

Plain and simple I'm gonna close with this. The the difference between Rice and Moss is that Rice is the measuring stick for what a WR should be like. There was not one aspect of the game which Rice did not excel in. Moss is a physically gifted athlete and a great player but Moss is not the well rounded player that Jerry was.

Originally posted by Legbreaker:
Great analysis. I can tell that your commentary was very lucid, well thought out, and carefully researched.

Now to my opinion as to whether Moss can be mentioned as an elite receiver: You bet.

Can Moss be reasonable thought of as a rival for the best ever:

Why? That one is pretty easy.

Moss may be smart...he may be able to block...and he would even be the best receiver in the game today if it wasn't for Andre Johnson and Reggie Wayne.

All of the above noted, Moss does things that no great receiver does...he dogs it when the ball isn't coming his way, he can't sell a fake, and he is tentative in the middle of the field. He's not even the best receiver on his own team when it comes to hustling over the middle.

Rice could do everything. He could be a possession receiver. He could be a deep game breaker, a linebacker de-cleating blocker, or the best decoy a #2 receiver could ever ask for. Rice didn't come to the NFL as the best ever...he just worked harder than anyone ever had, changed the way that receivers train for the game, and made his money abusing the best cover corner the NFL has ever seen.

If Moss is a bigger version of Deion Sanders, you've made my argument for me. Deion was great. Hell, he was f*cking awesome. He also got his balls beat in twice a year by Jerry until he defected from the Falcons. Rice owned Deion, along with the rest of the best cover guys of his generation.

Moss may have more natural ability, but in my estimation, that makes Jerry even more amazing. There were plenty of guys that were more physically talented than Jerry...but they all faded. Why? Because none of them had the once in a generation kind of work ethic that Jerry did.

Jerry is a guy that is considered in the conversation of the best football player ever (though in my estimation, that title still belongs to Jim Brown). Can Moss be mentioned in that conversation? No way.

The next "greatest receiver ever" will change the game the way Jerry did. Will it happen? Of course it will. Has it happened yet? Nope. Until it does, Jerry holds the title.

No answer? C'mon new guy! Give me an argument. If you have all the answers, just counter with one. Just one.

I look forward to eviscerating you on rebuttal.

I know its hard to accept the truth but Rice is the GOAT.

s**t. Rice got most of his stats in an ERA that allowed CB's to touch WR's. Moss is getting his stats in an ERA that heavily favors the pass. I bet rice could still put up good numbers right now playing with these rules.

I think I just had a seizure trying to read this.....im sorry new fella, but DAMN!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by 49ertrue1:
You guys are jokes. I am the hugest Rice fan still. & went to 4 Niner games last year at the stick!
Get some balls and read it all.
One of you said Moss is a lazy whatever. How can you be lazy and get 148 td's, only 6 shy than the great Rice after 12 seasons? it's impossible.

I feel sad for the average football fan, that just repeats what Sportscenter says.
As a WR-coach, who watches game film, Moss is just better. the fact that most of you down-play what Moss is doing and has done in the NFL, proves that he is threatening your view of Rice's status.
I wrote that college stuff to show you it's nothing new. Moss was better than Rice in college too.

Take some time & read the facts. Not listening or reading it all proves i'm right. You dont' even want to hear it. LIke my dad.He's teh same way.die hard glory day niner fan. Over the years of me making my dad watch Moss. He hates to say it, but he does now, "Moss is the most dangerous and uncoverable player ever." took like 6 years to convince him. It's not gonna take a few posts on this loser land forum.
As a fan, Moss is the closest thing to Rice we've ever seen. I don't get why you wouldn't want to watch him. People love watching Lebron james & Kobe, because they are similiar to Jordan. I dont' get it.

To me, Rice is like Dr. J. And Moss is Jordan. Dr. J started the high flying acrobatic dunks with artistry. Jordan, added speed and explosion and more hops to the game. That's what Moss has done to Rice. Moss is a bigger, faster Rice. And if you don't think so, your stuck in our dynasty years.
I didnt' even begin to talk about the team Rice played on vs Moss, don't get me started there. or the 9 diffrerent QB'S Moss has caught a TD pass from. Again, take awat s**tty oakland, Moss would have been ahead of Rice' numbers 5 years ago. but, he is STILL catching and passing some.

as far as being the worst post ever, i highly disagree, it was informative to all you close minded people. I still aven't heard an argument why Moss isn't as good or better.

I believe that Ether broke it down for you and you have yet to respond to it. The truth is they were all brilliant and relevant to what you are arguing. You're just choosing to ignore it. My guess is that you don't have an answer for it.

Randy Moss is a fantastic and dominate player. I don't see anything wrong with your argument, but I see issues with the way you decided to present it. You claimed it was an unbiased look at the two receivers, yet your argument consistantly down plays the achievements of Rice and spins a shining light on the accomplishments of Moss. Your post sounds like your still attached to Randy Moss' bean bag.

48ertrue1:

How old are you? How many of Jerry Rice's game have you seen...in person?

If you have already answered these two questions, indulge me and answer them again. I don't have time to read all the posts in this thread.

The difference between the two is that both are very gifted athlets, however, Jerry Rice was a complete football player. Moss has never been.

Rice ALWAYS had a purpose on every play. He was either working to get open, blocking for someone, or making a move to set up a future play. Often he would use a play that wasn't going to him at all to test out the CB to see how he would respond to some very subtle nuance. Rice would then file that away for later in the game, or later in the season. Moss doesn't do any of those things.

Rice was also an exquisite pattern runner. Watching him work a defender, or coming through traffic to get open was a work of art. He never slowed down in traffic. He just had a 6th sense that allowed him to find gaps even when looking the other way. Moss just relies on his athleticism and speed most of the time. When he sees traffic, he also see a yellow light, and backs off.

Though Rice always had a very good QB, he also shared the field with a better overall set of receivers than Moss has ever had. Still, Rice dominated the play like no other.

I don't care about statistics as much as you seem to. I care about who is the best football player, and that is Jerry Rice by a wide margin.

Originally posted by 49ertrue1:
You guys are jokes. I am the hugest Rice fan still. & went to 4 Niner games last year at the stick!
Get some balls and read it all.
One of you said Moss is a lazy whatever. How can you be lazy and get 148 td's, only 6 shy than the great Rice after 12 seasons? it's impossible.

I feel sad for the average football fan, that just repeats what Sportscenter says.
As a WR-coach, who watches game film, Moss is just better. the fact that most of you down-play what Moss is doing and has done in the NFL, proves that he is threatening your view of Rice's status.
I wrote that college stuff to show you it's nothing new. Moss was better than Rice in college too.

Take some time & read the facts. Not listening or reading it all proves i'm right. You dont' even want to hear it. LIke my dad.He's teh same way.die hard glory day niner fan. Over the years of me making my dad watch Moss. He hates to say it, but he does now, "Moss is the most dangerous and uncoverable player ever." took like 6 years to convince him. It's not gonna take a few posts on this loser land forum.
As a fan, Moss is the closest thing to Rice we've ever seen. I don't get why you wouldn't want to watch him. People love watching Lebron james & Kobe, because they are similiar to Jordan. I dont' get it.

To me, Rice is like Dr. J. And Moss is Jordan. Dr. J started the high flying acrobatic dunks with artistry. Jordan, added speed and explosion and more hops to the game. That's what Moss has done to Rice. Moss is a bigger, faster Rice. And if you don't think so, your stuck in our dynasty years.
I didnt' even begin to talk about the team Rice played on vs Moss, don't get me started there. or the 9 diffrerent QB'S Moss has caught a TD pass from. Again, take awat s**tty oakland, Moss would have been ahead of Rice' numbers 5 years ago. but, he is STILL catching and passing some.

as far as being the worst post ever, i highly disagree, it was informative to all you close minded people. I still aven't heard an argument why Moss isn't as good or better.

Andre Johnson > Randy Moss

/thread

Originally posted by 49ertrue1:
you guys are all idiots!!!! i swear to god, you still say nothing. I have heard plenty of coaches and players say Moss is the best. Including, Chris Carter, one of the best ever. Carter Moss was already better than Rice ever was when he was a rookie.

One trick pony comment, i mean that's why i posted this. How can you get 100 catches having 1 trick? Then this other guy talks about stats, uhh, Moss is breaking Rices TD record. Look up Rice's stats on wikipedia, you'll notice all the big time stats, Moss is either right behind, tied or GOING to break. Rice was more of a possession receiver, that's why he's got more catches.

& for the guy that said, no one would pick Moss over Rice? are you kidding? You know what Moss does on offense? He's the biggest threat ever, he brought Welkers catches from 67 - 120+. Moss is the common denominator in the 2 highest scoring offenses ever, PERIOD. I know, no rings, but Marino is still better than 98% of qb's ever. If Moss ends up getting a ring (which as you know, he was very close to being the main part of the only undefeated team in the modern era, prolly woulda been the best team ever, not just the best regular season team ever, as they still are)

I don't see why it's so hard to put Moss up there with Jerry, other than, you don't like Moss & Rice is your hero. Other than that, there is no argument to why Rice is better. & some fool said andre johnson and marvin harrison are better. ROFL, harrison isn't even in the league! that's why i posted it, most of you just don't know Moss.

I would take Moss to start a franchise over Rice anyday! You weirdo's forget, Rice, joined a 2 time superbowl team!

GET OUT OF THE PAST, RICE IN REALITY, CAN'T HOLD MOSS'S JOCK ON THE THINGS HE CAN DO. it's like you only watch the 49ers and turn off the t.v. at 4pm.

MOss set the rookie TD/season record in college & then do it in the pro's at a younger age than Rice was. Fact is, we've never seen a player that good before. & if you think so, your mistaken.

Just get the the f**k over yourself. We're idiots for wasting time and energy on somebody auditioning to be captain of the debate team and who's obvioulsy not a Niner fan.

You sure devoted much time to talking about before and after Rice's 12th season. I find that interesting . . . . In those first 12 seasons Rice made the Pro-Bowl eleven straight times and was named ALL-PRO for 10 of those seasons. He also earned three Superbowl rings and, one Superbowl MVP and one league MVP award. It was the most consistently dominant stretch for any WR EVER. He could have retired righ then and still been considered the best ever.

Then during the opening game of his 13th season at Tampa Bay, Warren punk azz f**k Sapp facemasked Flash 80 on a reverse which caused him to step awkwardly and he blew-up his knee. He was never the same. But in spite of the repaired knee Rice averaged 1000 yards per season over his last six seasons, except his final season. It's hard to imagine where Rice would be if Sapp (probably your real hero) didn't slow his career down.

As for Moss, he's never had consecutive All-Pro seasons. The best he could muster is three straight Pro-Bowls. And his appearance on the big stage in his one Superbowl ??? . . . 5 catches for 65 yards, 1 TD . . . WOW!

So basically, for me to TRULY accept Moss into the realm of Rice I would need to see an average of about 90 catches for 1300 yards and 10 TD's over the next five years. If he does that he'll still be short of Rice in total receptions and yards but could tie in receiving TD's . . . but not total TD's because Rice has 10 rushing TD's and Moss has none. But I just don't see Moss doing that, primarily because I don't think he has the passion to last that long and I also don't see him staying in New England.

I'll just close by saying, I've heard Rice mentioned MANY times for consideration as the best PLAYER in NFL history. I've NEVER heard ANYONE say that about Moss . . . and probably never will.

[ Edited by SonocoNinerFan on Mar 25, 2010 at 22:59:13 ]

I see what this guys saying, statistically they are very comparable, but what rice did for the team, clutchness, he is better.

This is like saying Lebron or Kobe is better than Jordan... they ain't.

Rice>>>>>Moss at running routes!!!!

Rice isn't a jump ball receiver like Moss is, which is how Moss is often used.

whats the argument about? Moss is clearly more naturally gifted. whos arguing that?

but Rice worked harder than anyone in sports history, and set about every receiving record in the books. Moss couldve been better with a better attitude and work ethic, but he didnt.

Moss is the most talented WR to ever play the game, but Rice is still the best by a mile.

Originally posted by silkyjohnson:
This is like saying Lebron or Kobe is better than Jordan... they ain't.

Great analogy.

-9fA

Wow.....where do I start?



Apparently Usain Bolt would also be better than Jerry Rice because he's fast as balls.