OFFICIAL Blaine Gabbert Thread

another spread offense product? oh wait, he played pro-style at high school...

i would even pick prince over him. we have glaring holes elsewhere and the main issue is that i dont see gabbert worth the 7th ovr, but i do that in case of quinn and prince.

Not one of us can say for sure how good or bad Gabbert will be. All i know is that Gabbert will be coming in to a much better situation than Alex came in to in 2005

Originally posted by Eskendale:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by Eskendale:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by comeatmebrah:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Harbaugh can make a pro bowler out of many QBs.

No need to invest 7th overall and millions.

Harbaugh has been on point with grading QBs in later rounds to actually be better.

Those guys don't exist every year and the guy who you invest millions into is going to have a higher upside than the mid round find almost every time. The success rate of the 1st round QB is much higher than that of the mid round QB and we don't know if Harbaugh can make a PB'er out of many QB's....he hasn't made one into a PB'er so we shouldn't crown his ass just yet (and if you don't believe me ask Dennis Green). We have a one year example of Harbaugh grading QB's and we only know of but a few QB grades from that class so it's hard to tell how good he truly is, but all signs point to him being good.

Do you view Gabbert as a true 1st round talent? Or do you think he is just the beneficiary of a weak draft class with lots of teams needing QB's? I agree with everything you said there btw. Not really sure why I'm asking you but I haven't gone to sleep so w.e.

Yes. I think in a stronger class he wouldn't be a top 10 pick...he'd likely fit in the 10-20 range.

Gabbert's 1st and 2nd year stats at Mizzou are actually very comparable and similar to those of Big Ben in his first 2 years starting at Miami. There games are different but statistically they are not that different, and Big Ben is also walking proof of an NFL QB who doesn't post big time numbers for a QB year in year out, however I think Gabbert is capable of posting better numbers with a better supporting cast (his cast was better in 09 and so were his TD numbers and this year he improved his completion %).

Another QB who didn't post eye popping numbers in college, Josh Freeman. So the whole 16 TD thing is overblown as is the "he came from a spread offense" because so did Sam Bradford & Tim Tebow as will many more QB's in the coming years. We can't get cold feet on taking a 1st round QB who isn't named Andrew Luck or has the hype and buzz that Luck has or on taking a 1st round QB because he played in a spread offense because many more QB's will be coming to the pro's from a spread...

+ Show all quotes
Purely on statistics, you're looking at a 3-year college starter in Ben versus a 2-year started in Gabbert. The former progressed and threw 15 more TDs for 1200 more yards and 1 less pick moving from his sophomore year to junior year, whereas the latter REGRESSED and threw 8 less TDs for about 500 less yards. There simply is no comparison between the two, and if someone would like to say the numbers are taken out of context, there was absolutely no context provided for the original point that the two are similar just because of their first two years.

Besides, as Tuna and Baalke said, you have to look at the film and the games, not just stats.

Furthermore, you're comparing Blaine Gabbert to a QB who has been in 3 superbowls. We could play the statistics game, and I could find other QBs with mediocre stats who can't hold a candle to Ben's greatness.

Although I'm neither an expert on either of their college careers, I do know that GMs and scouts put a lot of stock into players who had longer college careers and consistently showed improvement. Gabbert has too many question marks for someone who had only two starting years and a year of regression / mediocrity (comparing his final year of 16 TDs / 8 int 3100 yards to Ben's of 37 TDs / 10 int 4500 yards).

I was comparing there first 2 years as starters, not their sophomore and junior years. And comparing the fact that 16 TD's in a college season, regardless of the offense doesn't mean that he doesn't have all the tools to be a successful pro QB.

Fact is he had less talent surrounding him from year 1 to year 2. Tim Tebow went from back to back 30 TD seasons at Florida to 21 as a senior, and as a senior he lost Murphy and Harvin. He too as we all know played in a spread.

Again the 16 TD's in a spread offense complaint is overblown.

I know you were comparing the first two years, which is why I stated that you can't compare two QBs just based off of a selective interpretation of their careers that removes Ben's third year and doesn't even provide context for any of their statistics. If talking about Cam Newton, we'd be forced to talk only about one year of production for anyone we compared him to, which would be ridiculous since most QBs have started for at least two seasons.

But no matter how many reasons there are for why Gabbert did worse in his last season, the fact is that it is a big question mark. Most people did not even feel Tebow was worth a 1st rounder at all, and we're talking about Gabbert 7th overall. I do not think you can make a comparison between the two.

That was not a comparison of them but a comparison of the situations around them.

However Tebow was anywhere from a late 1st to a 3rd last year and that was not due to his stats, but due to his mechanics and the questions that surrounded his accuracy. We did not hear concerns that he threw 10 or 11 fewer TD passes....so why is it such a concern for Blaine Gabbert when it wasn't for Tebow ? Because he is deemed a top 10 pick ? Please, you don't penalize a player for having lesser talent around him. It's not like he didn't fare better as a sophomore with senior wideouts....these so-called concerns are not as big a deal as some would like us to think or believe.

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by jrg:

Originally posted by jrg:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Originally posted by jrg:

Originally posted by jrg:
DRAFT BLAINE GABBERT!!

+ Show all quotes

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by Eskendale:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by Eskendale:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by comeatmebrah:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Harbaugh can make a pro bowler out of many QBs.

No need to invest 7th overall and millions.

Harbaugh has been on point with grading QBs in later rounds to actually be better.

Those guys don't exist every year and the guy who you invest millions into is going to have a higher upside than the mid round find almost every time. The success rate of the 1st round QB is much higher than that of the mid round QB and we don't know if Harbaugh can make a PB'er out of many QB's....he hasn't made one into a PB'er so we shouldn't crown his ass just yet (and if you don't believe me ask Dennis Green). We have a one year example of Harbaugh grading QB's and we only know of but a few QB grades from that class so it's hard to tell how good he truly is, but all signs point to him being good.

Do you view Gabbert as a true 1st round talent? Or do you think he is just the beneficiary of a weak draft class with lots of teams needing QB's? I agree with everything you said there btw. Not really sure why I'm asking you but I haven't gone to sleep so w.e.

Yes. I think in a stronger class he wouldn't be a top 10 pick...he'd likely fit in the 10-20 range.

Gabbert's 1st and 2nd year stats at Mizzou are actually very comparable and similar to those of Big Ben in his first 2 years starting at Miami. There games are different but statistically they are not that different, and Big Ben is also walking proof of an NFL QB who doesn't post big time numbers for a QB year in year out, however I think Gabbert is capable of posting better numbers with a better supporting cast (his cast was better in 09 and so were his TD numbers and this year he improved his completion %).

Another QB who didn't post eye popping numbers in college, Josh Freeman. So the whole 16 TD thing is overblown as is the "he came from a spread offense" because so did Sam Bradford & Tim Tebow as will many more QB's in the coming years. We can't get cold feet on taking a 1st round QB who isn't named Andrew Luck or has the hype and buzz that Luck has or on taking a 1st round QB because he played in a spread offense because many more QB's will be coming to the pro's from a spread...

Purely on statistics, you're looking at a 3-year college starter in Ben versus a 2-year started in Gabbert. The former progressed and threw 15 more TDs for 1200 more yards and 1 less pick moving from his sophomore year to junior year, whereas the latter REGRESSED and threw 8 less TDs for about 500 less yards. There simply is no comparison between the two, and if someone would like to say the numbers are taken out of context, there was absolutely no context provided for the original point that the two are similar just because of their first two years.

Besides, as Tuna and Baalke said, you have to look at the film and the games, not just stats.

Furthermore, you're comparing Blaine Gabbert to a QB who has been in 3 superbowls. We could play the statistics game, and I could find other QBs with mediocre stats who can't hold a candle to Ben's greatness.

Although I'm neither an expert on either of their college careers, I do know that GMs and scouts put a lot of stock into players who had longer college careers and consistently showed improvement. Gabbert has too many question marks for someone who had only two starting years and a year of regression / mediocrity (comparing his final year of 16 TDs / 8 int 3100 yards to Ben's of 37 TDs / 10 int 4500 yards).

+ Show all quotes
I was comparing there first 2 years as starters, not their sophomore and junior years. And comparing the fact that 16 TD's in a college season, regardless of the offense doesn't mean that he doesn't have all the tools to be a successful pro QB.

Fact is he had less talent surrounding him from year 1 to year 2. Tim Tebow went from back to back 30 TD seasons at Florida to 21 as a senior, and as a senior he lost Murphy and Harvin. He too as we all know played in a spread.

Again the 16 TD's in a spread offense complaint is overblown.

I know you were comparing the first two years, which is why I stated that you can't compare two QBs just based off of a selective interpretation of their careers that removes Ben's third year and doesn't even provide context for any of their statistics. If talking about Cam Newton, we'd be forced to talk only about one year of production for anyone we compared him to, which would be ridiculous since most QBs have started for at least two seasons.

But no matter how many reasons there are for why Gabbert did worse in his last season, the fact is that it is a big question mark. Most people did not even feel Tebow was worth a 1st rounder at all, and we're talking about Gabbert 7th overall. I do not think you can make a comparison between the two.

That was not a comparison of them but a comparison of the situations around them.

However Tebow was anywhere from a late 1st to a 3rd last year and that was not due to his stats, but due to his mechanics and the questions that surrounded his accuracy. We did not hear concerns that he threw 10 or 11 fewer TD passes....so why is it such a concern for Blaine Gabbert when it wasn't for Tebow ? Because he is deemed a top 10 pick ? Please, you don't penalize a player for having lesser talent around him. It's not like he didn't fare better as a sophomore with senior wideouts....these so-called concerns are not as big a deal as some would like us to think or believe.

I'm not the one comparing Blaine Gabbert to Tebow, you are; I'm not penalizing Tebow for anything because I don't even think he belongs in a conversation about Gabbert. Tebow had issues, and that's why he was projected as being such a late pick, compared to where Gabbert is now (anywhere from the #1 overall to #7).

My problem is you're comparing Gabbert to someone whom most draft experts did not hold in high esteem, as a way of validating Gabbert's right to be drafted so early. I would rather you do the opposite, comparing Gabbert to someone who has had identical stats, been taken early, and has had a very productive career. Ben Roethlisberger does not work for the reasons I already mentioned. Please give me another name.

With that out of the way, I will support whoever the 49ers decide to draft at QB

Originally posted by Eskendale:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by Eskendale:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by Eskendale:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by comeatmebrah:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Harbaugh can make a pro bowler out of many QBs.

No need to invest 7th overall and millions.

Harbaugh has been on point with grading QBs in later rounds to actually be better.

Those guys don't exist every year and the guy who you invest millions into is going to have a higher upside than the mid round find almost every time. The success rate of the 1st round QB is much higher than that of the mid round QB and we don't know if Harbaugh can make a PB'er out of many QB's....he hasn't made one into a PB'er so we shouldn't crown his ass just yet (and if you don't believe me ask Dennis Green). We have a one year example of Harbaugh grading QB's and we only know of but a few QB grades from that class so it's hard to tell how good he truly is, but all signs point to him being good.

Do you view Gabbert as a true 1st round talent? Or do you think he is just the beneficiary of a weak draft class with lots of teams needing QB's? I agree with everything you said there btw. Not really sure why I'm asking you but I haven't gone to sleep so w.e.

Yes. I think in a stronger class he wouldn't be a top 10 pick...he'd likely fit in the 10-20 range.

Gabbert's 1st and 2nd year stats at Mizzou are actually very comparable and similar to those of Big Ben in his first 2 years starting at Miami. There games are different but statistically they are not that different, and Big Ben is also walking proof of an NFL QB who doesn't post big time numbers for a QB year in year out, however I think Gabbert is capable of posting better numbers with a better supporting cast (his cast was better in 09 and so were his TD numbers and this year he improved his completion %).

Another QB who didn't post eye popping numbers in college, Josh Freeman. So the whole 16 TD thing is overblown as is the "he came from a spread offense" because so did Sam Bradford & Tim Tebow as will many more QB's in the coming years. We can't get cold feet on taking a 1st round QB who isn't named Andrew Luck or has the hype and buzz that Luck has or on taking a 1st round QB because he played in a spread offense because many more QB's will be coming to the pro's from a spread...

Purely on statistics, you're looking at a 3-year college starter in Ben versus a 2-year started in Gabbert. The former progressed and threw 15 more TDs for 1200 more yards and 1 less pick moving from his sophomore year to junior year, whereas the latter REGRESSED and threw 8 less TDs for about 500 less yards. There simply is no comparison between the two, and if someone would like to say the numbers are taken out of context, there was absolutely no context provided for the original point that the two are similar just because of their first two years.

Besides, as Tuna and Baalke said, you have to look at the film and the games, not just stats.

Furthermore, you're comparing Blaine Gabbert to a QB who has been in 3 superbowls. We could play the statistics game, and I could find other QBs with mediocre stats who can't hold a candle to Ben's greatness.

Although I'm neither an expert on either of their college careers, I do know that GMs and scouts put a lot of stock into players who had longer college careers and consistently showed improvement. Gabbert has too many question marks for someone who had only two starting years and a year of regression / mediocrity (comparing his final year of 16 TDs / 8 int 3100 yards to Ben's of 37 TDs / 10 int 4500 yards).

I was comparing there first 2 years as starters, not their sophomore and junior years. And comparing the fact that 16 TD's in a college season, regardless of the offense doesn't mean that he doesn't have all the tools to be a successful pro QB.

Fact is he had less talent surrounding him from year 1 to year 2. Tim Tebow went from back to back 30 TD seasons at Florida to 21 as a senior, and as a senior he lost Murphy and Harvin. He too as we all know played in a spread.

Again the 16 TD's in a spread offense complaint is overblown.

+ Show all quotes
I know you were comparing the first two years, which is why I stated that you can't compare two QBs just based off of a selective interpretation of their careers that removes Ben's third year and doesn't even provide context for any of their statistics. If talking about Cam Newton, we'd be forced to talk only about one year of production for anyone we compared him to, which would be ridiculous since most QBs have started for at least two seasons.

But no matter how many reasons there are for why Gabbert did worse in his last season, the fact is that it is a big question mark. Most people did not even feel Tebow was worth a 1st rounder at all, and we're talking about Gabbert 7th overall. I do not think you can make a comparison between the two.

That was not a comparison of them but a comparison of the situations around them.

However Tebow was anywhere from a late 1st to a 3rd last year and that was not due to his stats, but due to his mechanics and the questions that surrounded his accuracy. We did not hear concerns that he threw 10 or 11 fewer TD passes....so why is it such a concern for Blaine Gabbert when it wasn't for Tebow ? Because he is deemed a top 10 pick ? Please, you don't penalize a player for having lesser talent around him. It's not like he didn't fare better as a sophomore with senior wideouts....these so-called concerns are not as big a deal as some would like us to think or believe.

I'm not the one comparing Blaine Gabbert to Tebow, you are; I'm not penalizing Tebow for anything because I don't even think he belongs in a conversation about Gabbert. Tebow had issues, and that's why he was projected as being such a late pick, compared to where Gabbert is now (anywhere from the #1 overall to #7).

My problem is you're comparing Gabbert to someone whom most draft experts did not hold in high esteem, as a way of validating Gabbert's right to be drafted so early. I would rather you do the opposite, comparing Gabbert to someone who has had identical stats, been taken early, and has had a very productive career. Ben Roethlisberger does not work for the reasons I already mentioned. Please give me another name.

Not comparing them as quarterbacks. Just the fact that they share a similar statistic, fewer touchdown passes in their final collegiate season than the year prior.

Yet for Tebow it was not a concern, in fact despite bigger concerns like mechanics and accuracy he still managed to go in the first round.

Gabbert who doesn't have these same concerns, is not worthy of going #7 because of 16 TD passes ?

Compare Matt Ryan as a sophomore and junior to Blaine Gabbert, and compare Josh Freeman as a sophomore and junior. Comparable for what you are looking criteria is asking.

IMO Gabbert is probably closer to being a value between 10-20 however due to the demands for QB his value increases, thus he falls into your lap at 7 he is definitely worthy of being selected at 7 because you won't get him via a trade down and he possesses a greater upside than the 2nd tier guys whom you are likely going to have to attempt a trade up for.

The only QB selected in the top 10 in recent draft memory that compares well statistically to Gabbert is Joey Harrington. Both two year starters, around 40 career TDs (although Harrington with 43 on about 200 less attempts), and about 1800 yard difference in career passing (which could be chalked up to attempts).

Niners not gonna take Gabbert, just dont see it happening. Harbaugh is confident in his abilities to make lower round draft picks into good Qbs. Plus I think he likes the challenge of it.

Originally posted by Eskendale:
The only QB selected in the top 10 in recent draft memory that compares well statistically to Gabbert is Joey Harrington. Both two year starters, around 40 career TDs (although Harrington with 43 on about 200 less attempts), and about 1800 yard difference in career passing (which could be chalked up to attempts).

Harrington was a 3 year starter and threw for 59 career touchdowns.

Don't worry , shanahan threw the last several games to move up in the draft for a QB he can groom.

Redskins should move up in the draft to get him or Cam

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by Eskendale:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by Eskendale:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by Eskendale:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by comeatmebrah:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Harbaugh can make a pro bowler out of many QBs.

No need to invest 7th overall and millions.

Harbaugh has been on point with grading QBs in later rounds to actually be better.

Those guys don't exist every year and the guy who you invest millions into is going to have a higher upside than the mid round find almost every time. The success rate of the 1st round QB is much higher than that of the mid round QB and we don't know if Harbaugh can make a PB'er out of many QB's....he hasn't made one into a PB'er so we shouldn't crown his ass just yet (and if you don't believe me ask Dennis Green). We have a one year example of Harbaugh grading QB's and we only know of but a few QB grades from that class so it's hard to tell how good he truly is, but all signs point to him being good.

Do you view Gabbert as a true 1st round talent? Or do you think he is just the beneficiary of a weak draft class with lots of teams needing QB's? I agree with everything you said there btw. Not really sure why I'm asking you but I haven't gone to sleep so w.e.

Yes. I think in a stronger class he wouldn't be a top 10 pick...he'd likely fit in the 10-20 range.

Gabbert's 1st and 2nd year stats at Mizzou are actually very comparable and similar to those of Big Ben in his first 2 years starting at Miami. There games are different but statistically they are not that different, and Big Ben is also walking proof of an NFL QB who doesn't post big time numbers for a QB year in year out, however I think Gabbert is capable of posting better numbers with a better supporting cast (his cast was better in 09 and so were his TD numbers and this year he improved his completion %).

Another QB who didn't post eye popping numbers in college, Josh Freeman. So the whole 16 TD thing is overblown as is the "he came from a spread offense" because so did Sam Bradford & Tim Tebow as will many more QB's in the coming years. We can't get cold feet on taking a 1st round QB who isn't named Andrew Luck or has the hype and buzz that Luck has or on taking a 1st round QB because he played in a spread offense because many more QB's will be coming to the pro's from a spread...

Purely on statistics, you're looking at a 3-year college starter in Ben versus a 2-year started in Gabbert. The former progressed and threw 15 more TDs for 1200 more yards and 1 less pick moving from his sophomore year to junior year, whereas the latter REGRESSED and threw 8 less TDs for about 500 less yards. There simply is no comparison between the two, and if someone would like to say the numbers are taken out of context, there was absolutely no context provided for the original point that the two are similar just because of their first two years.

Besides, as Tuna and Baalke said, you have to look at the film and the games, not just stats.

Furthermore, you're comparing Blaine Gabbert to a QB who has been in 3 superbowls. We could play the statistics game, and I could find other QBs with mediocre stats who can't hold a candle to Ben's greatness.

Although I'm neither an expert on either of their college careers, I do know that GMs and scouts put a lot of stock into players who had longer college careers and consistently showed improvement. Gabbert has too many question marks for someone who had only two starting years and a year of regression / mediocrity (comparing his final year of 16 TDs / 8 int 3100 yards to Ben's of 37 TDs / 10 int 4500 yards).

I was comparing there first 2 years as starters, not their sophomore and junior years. And comparing the fact that 16 TD's in a college season, regardless of the offense doesn't mean that he doesn't have all the tools to be a successful pro QB.

Fact is he had less talent surrounding him from year 1 to year 2. Tim Tebow went from back to back 30 TD seasons at Florida to 21 as a senior, and as a senior he lost Murphy and Harvin. He too as we all know played in a spread.

Again the 16 TD's in a spread offense complaint is overblown.

I know you were comparing the first two years, which is why I stated that you can't compare two QBs just based off of a selective interpretation of their careers that removes Ben's third year and doesn't even provide context for any of their statistics. If talking about Cam Newton, we'd be forced to talk only about one year of production for anyone we compared him to, which would be ridiculous since most QBs have started for at least two seasons.

But no matter how many reasons there are for why Gabbert did worse in his last season, the fact is that it is a big question mark. Most people did not even feel Tebow was worth a 1st rounder at all, and we're talking about Gabbert 7th overall. I do not think you can make a comparison between the two.

+ Show all quotes
That was not a comparison of them but a comparison of the situations around them.

However Tebow was anywhere from a late 1st to a 3rd last year and that was not due to his stats, but due to his mechanics and the questions that surrounded his accuracy. We did not hear concerns that he threw 10 or 11 fewer TD passes....so why is it such a concern for Blaine Gabbert when it wasn't for Tebow ? Because he is deemed a top 10 pick ? Please, you don't penalize a player for having lesser talent around him. It's not like he didn't fare better as a sophomore with senior wideouts....these so-called concerns are not as big a deal as some would like us to think or believe.

I'm not the one comparing Blaine Gabbert to Tebow, you are; I'm not penalizing Tebow for anything because I don't even think he belongs in a conversation about Gabbert. Tebow had issues, and that's why he was projected as being such a late pick, compared to where Gabbert is now (anywhere from the #1 overall to #7).

My problem is you're comparing Gabbert to someone whom most draft experts did not hold in high esteem, as a way of validating Gabbert's right to be drafted so early. I would rather you do the opposite, comparing Gabbert to someone who has had identical stats, been taken early, and has had a very productive career. Ben Roethlisberger does not work for the reasons I already mentioned. Please give me another name.

Not comparing them as quarterbacks. Just the fact that they share a similar statistic, fewer touchdown passes in their final collegiate season than the year prior.

Yet for Tebow it was not a concern, in fact despite bigger concerns like mechanics and accuracy he still managed to go in the first round.

Gabbert who doesn't have these same concerns, is not worthy of going #7 because of 16 TD passes ?

Compare Matt Ryan as a sophomore and junior to Blaine Gabbert, and compare Josh Freeman as a sophomore and junior. Comparable for what you are looking criteria is asking.

IMO Gabbert is probably closer to being a value between 10-20 however due to the demands for QB his value increases, thus he falls into your lap at 7 he is definitely worthy of being selected at 7 because you won't get him via a trade down and he possesses a greater upside than the 2nd tier guys whom you are likely going to have to attempt a trade up for.

One could argue that Matt Ryan was selected #3 overall because he showed remarkable improvement in his last year and ended on a good note: it is the same reason why someone like Locker isn't rated as high as he was last year because he regressed statistically. As said before, Gabbert's last year of production is a question mark for a top 10 pick.

With regard to Freeman, he is a better comparison (if of course you overlook the fact he started for three years), and as you said he went in the middle of the first round. If Blaine Gabbert is as good as Freeman, then yes, pick him early. But as I said before, for every Freeman you have a Harrington who compares well statistically to Blaine, so the risk is just too much for throw a first rounder at.

Originally posted by Eskendale:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by Eskendale:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by Eskendale:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by Eskendale:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by comeatmebrah:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Harbaugh can make a pro bowler out of many QBs.

No need to invest 7th overall and millions.

Harbaugh has been on point with grading QBs in later rounds to actually be better.

Those guys don't exist every year and the guy who you invest millions into is going to have a higher upside than the mid round find almost every time. The success rate of the 1st round QB is much higher than that of the mid round QB and we don't know if Harbaugh can make a PB'er out of many QB's....he hasn't made one into a PB'er so we shouldn't crown his ass just yet (and if you don't believe me ask Dennis Green). We have a one year example of Harbaugh grading QB's and we only know of but a few QB grades from that class so it's hard to tell how good he truly is, but all signs point to him being good.

Do you view Gabbert as a true 1st round talent? Or do you think he is just the beneficiary of a weak draft class with lots of teams needing QB's? I agree with everything you said there btw. Not really sure why I'm asking you but I haven't gone to sleep so w.e.

Yes. I think in a stronger class he wouldn't be a top 10 pick...he'd likely fit in the 10-20 range.

Gabbert's 1st and 2nd year stats at Mizzou are actually very comparable and similar to those of Big Ben in his first 2 years starting at Miami. There games are different but statistically they are not that different, and Big Ben is also walking proof of an NFL QB who doesn't post big time numbers for a QB year in year out, however I think Gabbert is capable of posting better numbers with a better supporting cast (his cast was better in 09 and so were his TD numbers and this year he improved his completion %).

Another QB who didn't post eye popping numbers in college, Josh Freeman. So the whole 16 TD thing is overblown as is the "he came from a spread offense" because so did Sam Bradford & Tim Tebow as will many more QB's in the coming years. We can't get cold feet on taking a 1st round QB who isn't named Andrew Luck or has the hype and buzz that Luck has or on taking a 1st round QB because he played in a spread offense because many more QB's will be coming to the pro's from a spread...

Purely on statistics, you're looking at a 3-year college starter in Ben versus a 2-year started in Gabbert. The former progressed and threw 15 more TDs for 1200 more yards and 1 less pick moving from his sophomore year to junior year, whereas the latter REGRESSED and threw 8 less TDs for about 500 less yards. There simply is no comparison between the two, and if someone would like to say the numbers are taken out of context, there was absolutely no context provided for the original point that the two are similar just because of their first two years.

Besides, as Tuna and Baalke said, you have to look at the film and the games, not just stats.

Furthermore, you're comparing Blaine Gabbert to a QB who has been in 3 superbowls. We could play the statistics game, and I could find other QBs with mediocre stats who can't hold a candle to Ben's greatness.

Although I'm neither an expert on either of their college careers, I do know that GMs and scouts put a lot of stock into players who had longer college careers and consistently showed improvement. Gabbert has too many question marks for someone who had only two starting years and a year of regression / mediocrity (comparing his final year of 16 TDs / 8 int 3100 yards to Ben's of 37 TDs / 10 int 4500 yards).

I was comparing there first 2 years as starters, not their sophomore and junior years. And comparing the fact that 16 TD's in a college season, regardless of the offense doesn't mean that he doesn't have all the tools to be a successful pro QB.

Fact is he had less talent surrounding him from year 1 to year 2. Tim Tebow went from back to back 30 TD seasons at Florida to 21 as a senior, and as a senior he lost Murphy and Harvin. He too as we all know played in a spread.

Again the 16 TD's in a spread offense complaint is overblown.

I know you were comparing the first two years, which is why I stated that you can't compare two QBs just based off of a selective interpretation of their careers that removes Ben's third year and doesn't even provide context for any of their statistics. If talking about Cam Newton, we'd be forced to talk only about one year of production for anyone we compared him to, which would be ridiculous since most QBs have started for at least two seasons.

But no matter how many reasons there are for why Gabbert did worse in his last season, the fact is that it is a big question mark. Most people did not even feel Tebow was worth a 1st rounder at all, and we're talking about Gabbert 7th overall. I do not think you can make a comparison between the two.

That was not a comparison of them but a comparison of the situations around them.

However Tebow was anywhere from a late 1st to a 3rd last year and that was not due to his stats, but due to his mechanics and the questions that surrounded his accuracy. We did not hear concerns that he threw 10 or 11 fewer TD passes....so why is it such a concern for Blaine Gabbert when it wasn't for Tebow ? Because he is deemed a top 10 pick ? Please, you don't penalize a player for having lesser talent around him. It's not like he didn't fare better as a sophomore with senior wideouts....these so-called concerns are not as big a deal as some would like us to think or believe.

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I'm not the one comparing Blaine Gabbert to Tebow, you are; I'm not penalizing Tebow for anything because I don't even think he belongs in a conversation about Gabbert. Tebow had issues, and that's why he was projected as being such a late pick, compared to where Gabbert is now (anywhere from the #1 overall to #7).

My problem is you're comparing Gabbert to someone whom most draft experts did not hold in high esteem, as a way of validating Gabbert's right to be drafted so early. I would rather you do the opposite, comparing Gabbert to someone who has had identical stats, been taken early, and has had a very productive career. Ben Roethlisberger does not work for the reasons I already mentioned. Please give me another name.

Not comparing them as quarterbacks. Just the fact that they share a similar statistic, fewer touchdown passes in their final collegiate season than the year prior.

Yet for Tebow it was not a concern, in fact despite bigger concerns like mechanics and accuracy he still managed to go in the first round.

Gabbert who doesn't have these same concerns, is not worthy of going #7 because of 16 TD passes ?

Compare Matt Ryan as a sophomore and junior to Blaine Gabbert, and compare Josh Freeman as a sophomore and junior. Comparable for what you are looking criteria is asking.

IMO Gabbert is probably closer to being a value between 10-20 however due to the demands for QB his value increases, thus he falls into your lap at 7 he is definitely worthy of being selected at 7 because you won't get him via a trade down and he possesses a greater upside than the 2nd tier guys whom you are likely going to have to attempt a trade up for.

One could argue that Matt Ryan was selected #3 overall because he showed remarkable improvement in his last year and ended on a good note: it is the same reason why someone like Locker isn't rated as high as he was last year because he regressed statistically. As said before, Gabbert's last year of production is a question mark for a top 10 pick.

With regard to Freeman, he is a better comparison (if of course you overlook the fact he started for three years), and as you said he went in the middle of the first round. If Blaine Gabbert is as good as Freeman, then yes, pick him early. But as I said before, for every Freeman you have a Harrington who compares well statistically to Blaine, so the risk is just too much for throw a first rounder at.

How does a 3 year starter like Harrington compare well to a 2 year starter like Gabbert ? Surely you are not comparing senior statistics on a guy who started for 3 years to those of a junior who has 2 years of experience ?

With Ryan I did not compare his 3rd year starting because Gabbert did not choose to exercise that luxury. But Ryan's 1st 2 years starting (as a SO. and JR) are comparable to Gabbert's which I why I threw that name out.

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by Eskendale:
The only QB selected in the top 10 in recent draft memory that compares well statistically to Gabbert is Joey Harrington. Both two year starters, around 40 career TDs (although Harrington with 43 on about 200 less attempts), and about 1800 yard difference in career passing (which could be chalked up to attempts).

Harrington was a 3 year starter and threw for 59 career touchdowns.

Sorry about not including the first year. But if we're comparing Freeman with Gabbert, we might as well throw in Harrington.

But if you go to my original point, minus Harrington there aren't two year starters taken in the top 10 who have identical stats and productive careers in recent draft memory. That is, there is absolutely no precedent for Gabbert to be taken this high in the draft.

[ Edited by Eskendale on Apr 28, 2011 at 10:48:03 ]

Would rather re-sign Smith.

Peterson or Prince imo

[ Edited by 49ersMan420 on Apr 28, 2011 at 10:49:27 ]