Jim Harbaugh Thread - HC Chargers

Originally posted by TheBlueHell:

This is what I saw when looking at Michigan this season, too, and why I argued with you with respect to Clemson. Now my boys at Clemson had a terrible defensive performance Saturday night that I regard as an anomaly (still won by 21 and were never really challenged due to 750 yards of offense lol), but it wasn't because we didn't have speed and size all over the field. When you look at Clemson's offense, they are LOADED with young talent and height/speed/athleticism at QB/WR/RB. Trevor Lawrence, all homer takes aside, looks like an athletic version of Peyton Manning who can actually run like a deer at 6'6" with an NFL gun, and he's throwing to frisbee catching dogs like Tee Higgins and Justyn Ross while handing the ball off to a homerun threat in Travis Etienne with freaky acceleration and power. Moreover, their bench is loaded with similar type athletes and their recruiting class is loaded with the same.

I just don't see those types of athletes on Michigan's roster across the board, and I didn't think they would fare well matching up with more stereotypical southern teams. I still actually love Harbaugh and hope he does develop his program to be able to compete with Urban.

Agreed.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by FL9er:

As amusing as it is to watch the Harbaugh-ites show some humility because he's not the legendary coach he's hyped up to be, they're not that far away.

They need to start recruiting the types of athletes the Alabama's, the OSUs of the world recruit.

They can't compete with those teams athletically. As has already been said, this isn't 1997. This isn't John Cooper vs Lloyd Carr. The game has evolved. Even Nick Saban has turned over play calling to his OC. They run an uptempo, pass 1st offense.

They are that far away though because he won't admit that there is a problem. His ego is his biggest flaw. He's gonna double down on his style now with everyone calling for a change.

We will see. Remember he just got his Quarterbacks. You cannot change scheme without the players..

Joe Milton and Mcaffrey will allow Harbaugh to get bigger and faster at the Qb position. Shea Patterson was his best Qb and was a transfer.

I never said Harbaugh was legendary but I do think he is a great coach. That's a big difference that some have trouble comprehending. I also did say he was 2-3 years away. Yes I was excited for this season.. Who wouldn't be? Michigan is competing again....

Sure I want more but the future is promising with Joe Milton and Dylan Mcaffrey at Qb, Dax Hill at Safety, Nico Collins, DPJ and Tarik Black at WR. This team has to get more athletes and speed to contend with the big boys.

Gotta recruit the speed but realistically it takes time. I never said we were going to win it all.

I still think he is a great coach. He really isn't that far away considering the recruiting is getting better.. Harbaugh has Michigan ranked 8th in country as far as recruiting next year. You have to look everything in perspective. Is Michigan where it needs to be? No.. Is it working towards there. I would say yes when considering everything as a whole.

https://247sports.com/Season/2019-Football/CompositeTeamRankings/

2019 Michigan recruiting class is ranked 8th in the country. Michigan needs more 5-4 star talent. They need more speed and size in other positions. Dax Hill is the 5 star center fielder they needed at Safety.

Originally posted by sacniner:

Originally posted by lamontb:
Yea as a Michigan fan I've just came to the conclusion that our coaching staff is jut middle of the road. The offensive scheme is dreadful in 2018. And again we still don't have a big time qb. Patterson played a pretty terrible game vs O State. He's so dam short

You remember how irrelevant Michigan was pre-Harbs? You guys taking it for granted just like Jed did

I'm not taking him for granted, I didn't say fire they guy, and he's terrible. He simply isn't on a elite level of coaching. he wont' evlocle as an offensive philpshy and the team will never progress to championship level until he does. Every time we face top competition he gets out coached and out schemed. Great coaches beat teams that are more talented. So far we have never beat a team that we weren't supposed to beat. An elite coach will get that done just not consistently. Every year we have the exact same issues and they have yet to be addressed. Yea he's increased the talent level to the point where the players alone can roll Michigan State, Illinois and Wisconsin but we need to beat big boys. Year 4 and we still don't have a legit qb that he's recruited. These 5th year transfers are killing the team not helping. We'd been better off grooming Mcaffery or Milton for the future. Patterson has reached his ceiling. He'll come back have a solid season next year while our recruits are rotting on the sideline. Year 4 and we still don't have legit rb that can be a game changer. You throw in a 1984 out of date offensive philosophy and basically 10-2 is about a good as it will ever get. Ohio state linebackers and secondary have been terrible. Michigan's game plan didn't attack those areas early at all. Previous week Ohio State couldn't stop MD running backs on outside runs. What do we do run right up the gut with a dam scat back in Evans. Michigan has the more talented offensive and defensive line. And we played so vanilla on both sides of the ball. Nothing creative.

Defense wise the talent has been massively upgraded. For sure need more speed at outside linebacker and safety. But again coaching is an issue here as well. Don Brown has to mix up his defenses throughout the season. If we are up 35 there is no reason that he shouldn't be calling some zone and other coverage schemes to get guys prepared. The whole world talked about the crossing routes leading up to the game. Game starts and no adjustment from last year what so ever. Just the same vanilla package. By the time they try to adjust Ohio State starts having buys fake the crossing routes and go back outside. any adjustment from Michigan? Nope. They ran the wheel route to the rb about 10 times in the 1st half and it was wide open 9 of the 10 times. Any adjustments Nope. Let's just leave this slow linebacker out on island. If you have been rushing just 4 and nobody is getting home then it's time to switch it up.

Again I thinks he's done a good job but i wanted him to do great. I don't think he should be fired. But the facts are the facts. In big games our coaching staff isn't up to par and talent will only take you so far. Wasting time outs. Down 21 points and we running 2 tight end sets running the ball up the middle. 4th and 2 and we got the fullback in the game in a one back set. None of this s**t is gonna cut in today's wide open college football landscape. If you were a 17 year old athletic running back or wr why in the world would you come to Michigan and playing this offense? I sure as hell woudln't. I'm going some where that they open up the offense and throw the ball so i can get to the next level. Michigan has 3 good wr's right now and we barley use them compared to most teams. It's like we are stuck in 1992. With no self evaluation from our staff. just rinse recycle and repeat.

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by sacniner:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Yea as a Michigan fan I've just came to the conclusion that our coaching staff is jut middle of the road. The offensive scheme is dreadful in 2018. And again we still don't have a big time qb. Patterson played a pretty terrible game vs O State. He's so dam short

You remember how irrelevant Michigan was pre-Harbs? You guys taking it for granted just like Jed did

I'm not taking him for granted, I didn't say fire they guy, and he's terrible. He simply isn't on a elite level of coaching. he wont' evlocle as an offensive philpshy and the team will never progress to championship level until he does. Every time we face top competition he gets out coached and out schemed. Great coaches beat teams that are more talented. So far we have never beat a team that we weren't supposed to beat. An elite coach will get that done just not consistently. Every year we have the exact same issues and they have yet to be addressed. Yea he's increased the talent level to the point where the players alone can roll Michigan State, Illinois and Wisconsin but we need to beat big boys. Year 4 and we still don't have a legit qb that he's recruited. These 5th year transfers are killing the team not helping. We'd been better off grooming Mcaffery or Milton for the future. Patterson has reached his ceiling. He'll come back have a solid season next year while our recruits are rotting on the sideline. Year 4 and we still don't have legit rb that can be a game changer. You throw in a 1984 out of date offensive philosophy and basically 10-2 is about a good as it will ever get. Ohio state linebackers and secondary have been terrible. Michigan's game plan didn't attack those areas early at all. Previous week Ohio State couldn't stop MD running backs on outside runs. What do we do run right up the gut with a dam scat back in Evans. Michigan has the more talented offensive and defensive line. And we played so vanilla on both sides of the ball. Nothing creative.

Defense wise the talent has been massively upgraded. For sure need more speed at outside linebacker and safety. But again coaching is an issue here as well. Don Brown has to mix up his defenses throughout the season. If we are up 35 there is no reason that he shouldn't be calling some zone and other coverage schemes to get guys prepared. The whole world talked about the crossing routes leading up to the game. Game starts and no adjustment from last year what so ever. Just the same vanilla package. By the time they try to adjust Ohio State starts having buys fake the crossing routes and go back outside. any adjustment from Michigan? Nope. They ran the wheel route to the rb about 10 times in the 1st half and it was wide open 9 of the 10 times. Any adjustments Nope. Let's just leave this slow linebacker out on island. If you have been rushing just 4 and nobody is getting home then it's time to switch it up.

Again I thinks he's done a good job but i wanted him to do great. I don't think he should be fired. But the facts are the facts. In big games our coaching staff isn't up to par and talent will only take you so far. Wasting time outs. Down 21 points and we running 2 tight end sets running the ball up the middle. 4th and 2 and we got the fullback in the game in a one back set. None of this s**t is gonna cut in today's wide open college football landscape. If you were a 17 year old athletic running back or wr why in the world would you come to Michigan and playing this offense? I sure as hell woudln't. I'm going some where that they open up the offense and throw the ball so i can get to the next level. Michigan has 3 good wr's right now and we barley use them compared to most teams. It's like we are stuck in 1992. With no self evaluation from our staff. just rinse recycle and repeat.

Good post.... I respect that. Only one thing. He does have his two Qb's that he recruited.

Joe Milton and Dylan Mcaffrey.. Big, fast and both have an arm. They should be battling it out next year.

Don Brown needs to teach these kids zone coverage. Better athletes in better Universities will kill us in man to man. At least until he get the players to run his scheme the way he wants it to work.

These are Harbaugh's recruits. Both over 6 feet, fast, cannon for arms and can run.

He has the Qb's of the future just have to build around them. Speed..

I hope as the team gets faster, he can cater to their strengths.

Has jim ever had a team with blazing speed? I seem to recall his teams being build for power and not speed or finesse.

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Has jim ever had a team with blazing speed? I seem to recall his teams being build for power and not speed or finesse.

True but unfortunately the teams he will face, if they get into the playoffs the next couple of years, he will need to have speed and athleticism.

Look at his recent recruits. They are trying to be more athletic. Those two Qb's are fast, athletic and have cannons, Dax Hill is more of a center fielder at Safety. Why do I keep repeating it? I think if you look at his recruiting in 2019 class. He is trying to get faster, bigger in positions. If you look at his recent recruits. 2019 4 star RB Charbonet from California is big, fast and athletic..

He coached up alot of 3 stars to exceed their potential. I am hoping as the team is trying to compete, more 4-5 star kids will come to Michigan. Michigan has a couple that are starting but you cannot compare the depth.

There are no 4-5 star athletes sitting on Michigan's bench like Osu, Clemson, Alabama and Georgia. Michigan needs an infusion of big, fast athletes.

Michigan need track stars.

Not sure if UM is the ability to become a speed team. See the failure that was Rich Rodriguez. OSU benefits from being the only dog in the state, they have Urban to recruit nationally. How many teams in the Big 10 besides OSU play the spread like them?

JH can't leave anymore opportunities on the floor. He had 2 shots to beat OSU they just can't choke them away. Not sure if he has the ability to overtake them. At this point they're the rest of the SEC looking up at Saban. You're going for 2nd.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Not sure if UM is the ability to become a speed team. See the failure that was Rich Rodriguez. OSU benefits from being the only dog in the state, they have Urban to recruit nationally. How many teams in the Big 10 besides OSU play the spread like them?

JH can't leave anymore opportunities on the floor. He had 2 shots to beat OSU they just can't choke them away. Not sure if he has the ability to overtake them. At this point they're the rest of the SEC looking up at Saban. You're going for 2nd.

#1 Safety in 2019 draft class. 4.3 speed 👀

They have to and all signs are pointing that way, if they want to compete and they have the speed at the Qb position.

This is the 5 star kid Harbaugh stole from Saban. Athletic, 4.3 Speed and Big.. He is a center fielder..

What I am trying to say is that they are already getting faster in positions, just look at the recruits and you can get an idea. It takes time though if they want to compete..

He will be playing in the NFL in 3 years. This kid is the truth as well as his speed, angles and tackling.

Michigan will be getting a true center fielder next season. I wish we had him this year. He would have kept up with his 4.3 speed. This is why I am optimistic because of the 2019 draft class as well as the Qb position being locked for years.

Oh and for 190lbs he hits hard.. The kid will be playing on Sunday in 3 years. No doubt about it.

This is that Cali RB that is a beast.. There is a pattern with the 2019 recruits, which I am posting to show where my excitement is coming from. They are Big, Athletic and Fast 💨

This is where my optimism comes from. If you guys love football.. Look at the moves, the size, elusiveness..

You guys can see. 6 feet 2 and 215 pounds.. Harbaugh going Bigger, Faster and more Athletic in every position..

So my point is, if you look at the recruits coming in. You can tell the difference in size, speed and athleticism. If I didn't see this coming. I would be disappointed but the talent is starting to come.

He coached up the 3 stars to compete, you win a little. The 5 stars and 4 stars start visiting and taking notice along with stability in the coaching staff. Imho

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:

Originally posted by TheBlueHell:
This is what I saw when looking at Michigan this season, too, and why I argued with you with respect to Clemson. Now my boys at Clemson had a terrible defensive performance Saturday night that I regard as an anomaly (still won by 21 and were never really challenged due to 750 yards of offense lol), but it wasn't because we didn't have speed and size all over the field. When you look at Clemson's offense, they are LOADED with young talent and height/speed/athleticism at QB/WR/RB. Trevor Lawrence, all homer takes aside, looks like an athletic version of Peyton Manning who can actually run like a deer at 6'6" with an NFL gun, and he's throwing to frisbee catching dogs like Tee Higgins and Justyn Ross while handing the ball off to a homerun threat in Travis Etienne with freaky acceleration and power. Moreover, their bench is loaded with similar type athletes and their recruiting class is loaded with the same.

I just don't see those types of athletes on Michigan's roster across the board, and I didn't think they would fare well matching up with more stereotypical southern teams. I still actually love Harbaugh and hope he does develop his program to be able to compete with Urban.

Agreed.

I think he's building it the right way though. If he would try and go after these speed freaks that the SE goes after, or even OSU, they will lose out on most of them. The big ugly's, those are the guys JH can get and does a good job recruiting and using their talent in his scheme's. Problem is, winning a NC with a team built like that is harder, but it's possible...

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:

Originally posted by TheBlueHell:

This is what I saw when looking at Michigan this season, too, and why I argued with you with respect to Clemson. Now my boys at Clemson had a terrible defensive performance Saturday night that I regard as an anomaly (still won by 21 and were never really challenged due to 750 yards of offense lol), but it wasn't because we didn't have speed and size all over the field. When you look at Clemson's offense, they are LOADED with young talent and height/speed/athleticism at QB/WR/RB. Trevor Lawrence, all homer takes aside, looks like an athletic version of Peyton Manning who can actually run like a deer at 6'6" with an NFL gun, and he's throwing to frisbee catching dogs like Tee Higgins and Justyn Ross while handing the ball off to a homerun threat in Travis Etienne with freaky acceleration and power. Moreover, their bench is loaded with similar type athletes and their recruiting class is loaded with the same.

I just don't see those types of athletes on Michigan's roster across the board, and I didn't think they would fare well matching up with more stereotypical southern teams. I still actually love Harbaugh and hope he does develop his program to be able to compete with Urban.

Agreed.

I think he's building it the right way though. If he would try and go after these speed freaks that the SE goes after, or even OSU, they will lose out on most of them. The big ugly's, those are the guys JH can get and does a good job recruiting and using their talent in his scheme's. Problem is, winning a NC with a team built like that is harder, but it's possible...

Great point and that's why I think he is a genius trying to spark up the recruiting controversy and creating camps down south. That rubbed alot of coaches the wrong way but wtf.. How else can he tap into that talent that wants to stag down south?

We all know Michigan cannot contend with those Athletes or they don't want to come up north. So Harbaugh started sleeping over, taking trips, creating camps in Georgia, Florida and doing crazy s**t to entice the Athletes..

Wtf can he do? Like you said you can build a team but these SEC teams come out with a third wr on the bench running a 4.3..

It's tough. Like Colin Cowerd said osu is really a southern mentality SEC team. They are in the North but their ideology is is southern SEC. Speed and we all know speed kills. That was osu third or fourth wr running a 4.4. Michigan simply doesn't have 4.4 or 4.3 sitting on the bench waiting for that opportunity.

It's tough meh. I think they are starting to come (Recruits).
I wish they would come alot quicker but we all know it doesn't work that way.

It's all about speed in this new era and if you don't have the athletes to match up with their 4.3,4.4.. Then that how 62 points happens when Devin Bush gets hurt, Winovich.. David Long. Michigan has no Athletes on the bench. Michigan needed a healthy, flawless game without injuries because they simply don't have the 4.3,4.4 athletes if a starter goes out.

11-2 if they win the fiesta bowl or Rose bowl is still a successful season. Michigan has come a long way since Harbaugh has been coach.

Michigan Recruits:

QB - on paper, the future is bright
Brandon Peters - 4star, #6 in country
Dylan McCaffrey - 4star, #5 in country

RB - Evans has 1 year left, and on paper there isn't much talent at RB after him
Chris Evans - 4star, #9 in country
Tru Wilson - 2star walk-on
Samuels - 4star, #20 in country
Mason - 3star
Turner - 3star
A 4-star RB, #6 in country, is currently committed for next year's class.

WR - Its not deep, but Harbs has 2-3 studs
People-Jones - 5star, #1 in country
Nico Collins - 4star #20 in country
Martin - 4star, #29 in country
Bell - 3star
A 4-star 5'8 WR is currently committed, he runs a 4.4

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Michigan Recruits:

QB - on paper, the future is bright
Brandon Peters - 4star, #6 in country
Dylan McCaffrey - 4star, #5 in country

RB - Evans has 1 year left, and on paper there isn't much talent at RB after him
Chris Evans - 4star, #9 in country
Tru Wilson - 2star walk-on
Samuels - 4star, #20 in country
Mason - 3star
Turner - 3star
A 4-star RB, #6 in country, is currently committed for next year's class.

WR - Its not deep, but Harbs has 2-3 studs
People-Jones - 5star, #1 in country
Nico Collins - 4star #20 in country
Martin - 4star, #29 in country
Bell - 3star
A 4-star 5'8 WR is currently committed, he runs a 4.4

https://247sports.com/college/michigan/Season/2019-Football/Commits/

2019 class is currently ranking 8th in the country. You also see some down south kids from Georgia and Florida commit. So the camps down south are working. Hopefully with more some 4-5 stars start to come.

I would setup up multiple camps in both states to tap into that speed pipeline.

👀 Florida recruit.

"Michigan DC Don Brown's assumption is that a spread team is going to throw if you give easy advantages and otherwise will run. Ohio State is evolving into the kind of spread team that spreads you out in order to hunt matchups in space, not to clear lanes for the run. Against that, a defense has to flood passing lanes with athletes in something more like a dime package and either present no matchup problems or else have the speed and angles to bracket multiple wideouts."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/college-football/2018/11/27/18113088/ohio-state-michigan-game-results-offense-defense

Good article, when you guys get a chance. Take a look. The article basically breaking down what we have been talking about.

Spread, man to man, matchups and speed.