Saints ran a 'Bounty' Program - Now with 100% More Suspensions!

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by HessianDud:
when New Orleans beat Minnesota in the NFC Championship Game, everyone talked about how their strategy was to hit Favre and make him ineffective. I don't recall many pundits having a problem with that. Now you have people crying about it. I think its incredibly hypocritical.

that said, the Saints are/were very much in the wrong and need to be punished severely. But I think some of these writers and talking heads need to climb down off their high horse and look in the mirror.

Hitting a guy to make him gun shy and making him eat grass is different then going for his head and KO'ing him in 1 shot is the difference. Aldon beat the s**t out of big Ben but wasn't trying to take his head or knees out in the process.

my point was just that all these bloody tampons like Peter King didn't seem to care so much at the time.

It might be that they didn't think the hits were malicious in nature. I love big hits but I don't want to see some poor guy get permanently injured. I think that the information of really trying to hurt somebody is what has people in such a stir. Before we all knew that potential injury was part of the game but now knowing that the risks and hits were not random but were targeted shots is bad.

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by HessianDud:
when New Orleans beat Minnesota in the NFC Championship Game, everyone talked about how their strategy was to hit Favre and make him ineffective. I don't recall many pundits having a problem with that. Now you have people crying about it. I think its incredibly hypocritical.

that said, the Saints are/were very much in the wrong and need to be punished severely. But I think some of these writers and talking heads need to climb down off their high horse and look in the mirror.

Hitting a guy to make him gun shy and making him eat grass is different then going for his head and KO'ing him in 1 shot is the difference. Aldon beat the s**t out of big Ben but wasn't trying to take his head or knees out in the process.

my point was just that all these bloody tampons like Peter King didn't seem to care so much at the time.

It might be that they didn't think the hits were malicious in nature. I love big hits but I don't want to see some poor guy get permanently injured. I think that the information of really trying to hurt somebody is what has people in such a stir. Before we all knew that potential injury was part of the game but now knowing that the risks and hits were not random but were targeted shots is bad.

well, the NFL handed out many fines in that game, and the Saints were penalized several times, so its not like they were ever considered clean hits; but did, say, Peter King mention that any time he mentioned the "blitz happy" Williams defense? or the "tough-minded" Saints teams, etc, blah blah. In his article this week King weeps over how brutal those hits were, but I didn't see him crying about it the last 3 years.

I just think the hypocrisy is really irritating.

Originally posted by HessianDud:
well, the NFL handed out many fines in that game, and the Saints were penalized several times, so its not like they were ever considered clean hits; but did, say, Peter King mention that any time he mentioned the "blitz happy" Williams defense? or the "tough-minded" Saints teams, etc, blah blah. In his article this week King weeps over how brutal those hits were, but I didn't see him crying about it the last 3 years.

I just think the hypocrisy is really irritating.

Yeah I see your point. Knowing that those guys were out to injure is just damning and probably has a lot of writers in a bit of shock. Talking with my future father in-law when I told him he was like, "are you f**king kidding me?" Just the thought that these players who preach about the risk of the game and their lack of longevity participating in this kind of crap.

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by HessianDud:
well, the NFL handed out many fines in that game, and the Saints were penalized several times, so its not like they were ever considered clean hits; but did, say, Peter King mention that any time he mentioned the "blitz happy" Williams defense? or the "tough-minded" Saints teams, etc, blah blah. In his article this week King weeps over how brutal those hits were, but I didn't see him crying about it the last 3 years.

I just think the hypocrisy is really irritating.

Yeah I see your point. Knowing that those guys were out to injure is just damning and probably has a lot of writers in a bit of shock. Talking with my future father in-law when I told him he was like, "are you f**king kidding me?" Just the thought that these players who preach about the risk of the game and their lack of longevity participating in this kind of crap.

yeah, its pretty disgusting. at the same time, i bet its pretty widespread, and, when it gets down to it, I don't care that much. I dislike the Saints anyway and want the NFL to come down hard on them because it is better if this kind of thing doesn't happen. I'm glad its them being made an example of and not, say, us.

I just find it funny how Saints fans were b***hing about Whitner's hit on Pierre Thomas, and now they are ok with the whole Bounty, calling it not as bad as cheating.

If it went down here, I would be pissed. There is no need and no place in the nfl for this, you dont hit someone to hurt IMO, and then get rewarded with cash.

I dont buy Vilma's story, and I dont buy Sean Payton knew nothing about it. Notice how neither Payton or Mickey Loomis has said anything about it.

They will be hit hard, 1M in fines IMO, 1st and 2nd rd taken away, suspend Payton and Williams for at least 6-8 games, if not a year long ban. And then those 22-27 players will be getting fines and suspensions.

Originally posted by valrod33:
Have you guys read Peter Kings story on this? Ill post the link.

I found this interesting.

The NFL said it examined 18,000 documents totaling some 50,000 pages. One of those was an e-mail from a former team consultant, Mike Ornstein, to Payton, allegedly pledging $5,000 toward a bounty on an opposing quarterback. A source said Ornstein—at one time a close confidant of Payton's who in October 2010 would plead guilty to federal fraud and money-laundering charges in connection with the scalping of Super Bowl tickets and the sale of bogus game-worn NFL jerseys—claimed he was kidding about the pledge, but the league took it seriously.

According to the source, Payton refused to admit he knew much of what Williams was doing. Confronted with the e-mail from Ornstein, Payton expressed surprise and said he hadn't read the e-mail.



I think unless he owns up to knowing about it Payton is gonna get hit hard by Goodells ruling. I cant stand that douche bag I hope he gets suspended for a whole year


Link to Kings story
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1195695/1/index.htm

I'll be interested to see how he treats a golden-boy coach that got caught lying. Lord knows he'd bring the wrath of God down on a player if they did the same. Coaches should be held to a higher standard.

Originally posted by AB83Rules:
I just find it funny how Saints fans were b***hing about Whitner's hit on Pierre Thomas, and now they are ok with the whole Bounty, calling it not as bad as cheating.

If it went down here, I would be pissed. There is no need and no place in the nfl for this, you dont hit someone to hurt IMO, and then get rewarded with cash.

I dont buy Vilma's story, and I dont buy Sean Payton knew nothing about it. Notice how neither Payton or Mickey Loomis has said anything about it.

They will be hit hard, 1M in fines IMO, 1st and 2nd rd taken away, suspend Payton and Williams for at least 6-8 games, if not a year long ban. And then those 22-27 players will be getting fines and suspensions.

Doesn't surprise me. They did all kinds of flip-flopping trying to explain away how we "cheated" in the divisional game. Bunch of crybabies.

Originally posted by baltien:
Doesn't surprise me. They did all kinds of flip-flopping trying to explain away how we "cheated" in the divisional game. Bunch of crybabies.

How the hell did we "cheat"!?! Link me this story, I need a good laugh.

Originally posted by sfout:
How the hell did we "cheat"!?! Link me this story, I need a good laugh.

No news outlet I know of said this, it was mainly fans posting on this board as well as Saints forums. They felt like we got away with a lot of calls (like Whitner's totally legal hit on Pierre Thomas) and a bunch of other crap. I'm sure if you search around here, you'll find some funny stuff.

Originally posted by baltien:
No news outlet I know of said this, it was mainly fans posting on this board as well as Saints forums. They felt like we got away with a lot of calls (like Whitner's totally legal hit on Pierre Thomas) and a bunch of other crap. I'm sure if you search around here, you'll find some funny stuff.

awe okay. I was going to laugh pretty hard if they actually told the media that we cheated.

i wonder if the FA's are gonna run away from the drama now?

Who dat? Who dat? Who dat say dey gonna beat dem Saints?

Roger Goodell gonna beat dem Saints!

Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:
i wonder if the FA's are gonna run away from the drama now?

yea they'll try but they will also have a stigma on them because teams might not want players bringing that kind of mentality or culture into their locker rooms. The defensive FAs will have a lot of explaining to do to potential suitors but the offensive guys might have easier, but I still think they will have some questions to answer (I find it incredibly difficult for this bounty game to be going on without the offensive players knowing about it).

I wonder if a small factor of the Saints' reluctance to give Brees a new deal is because they think he'll get hurt next year because teams will want to return the favor with bounties...I know if I were a Saints fan, I'd be scared to death of Brees being targeted by defenses in 2012.

In a must-read account of the Saints' three-season bounty system, Peter King of Sports Illustrated shares plenty of intriguing and compelling details. MDS already has highlighted portions of the article relating to Roger Goodell's reaction to the situation and linebacker Scott Fujita's position on the subject. But there's even more good stuff.

During the 2009 NFC title game, which both sparked the league's investigation and served as the most obvious example of assault and battery of an opposing quarterback, King writes that, after an unflagged high-low hit on Brett Favre resulted in a sprained ankle, an unnamed Saints defender was heard saying on an on-field microphone, "Pay me my money!"

(We know what you're thinking: The league killed Monday's re-air of the game on NFL Network because the comment could be heard during the broadcast. Apparently, however, it was a different microphone.)

King also explains that defensive end Anthony Hargrove can be heard saying, "Favre is out of the game! Favre is done! Favre is done!"

Both statements would be strong circumstantial proof of the existence of a bounty program, if the NFL hadn't already found that the bounty program existed. And King spells out the weekly routine that unfolded during the 2009 season, defensive coordinator Gregg Williams' first in New Orleans.

On Saturday night, Williams handed out in a defensive meeting envelopes containing payments for big plays and inflicted injuries from the prior Sunday. And the defenders would then chant, "Give it back! Give it back! Give it back!" Many did, which caused the pile of available cash to keep growing.

The bounty system continued even after, as King explains in the Tuesday edition of his MMQB column, former Vikings coach Brad Childress sent to the league video of eight different hits on Favre from that game, the Vikings officially alleged that the Saints had put a bounty on Favre, and Williams, linebackers coach Joe Vitt, and Hargrove denied (i.e., lied about) its existence to investigators. For Williams, the denials (i.e., lies) continued through the middle of February 2012, when Williams was confronted with evidence implicating him as the "ringleader." Williams, per King, once again tried to deny it, but Williams then met with Goodell to confess.

Williams was back in New York on Monday, possibly to confess yet again (after possibly denying/lying yet again) his involvement in bounty systems in other cities.

King thinks the punishment issued to the Saints and various individuals will "likely dwarf" the penalties meted out for Spygate. The more we learn about the situation, the less surprising that will be.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/06/saints-defender-after-favre-injury-pay-me-my-money/