Greg Roman, is he really good?

Originally posted by 49erWay:
No doubt.

Obviously being 5 yards from winning the last Superbowl is a clear indication Roman doesn't know what he's doing.

this

lol

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

Originally posted by 49erWay:
No doubt.

Obviously being 5 yards from winning the last Superbowl is a clear indication Roman doesn't know what he's doing.

this

lol

i am glad you guys were all happy about what happened after the "genius" got us to the five, it was actually gore who did it but whatever. you can spin it however you want but he f**ked up on second third and fourth. yes i know it was the refs fault the best run attack in the nfl, the best run blocking line in the nfl, a well rested gore back on second down,, dixon who could get a tough yard or two,, f**kin ck who could fall across the line of scrimmage and get a touchdown. so what does roman do. use gore for a decoy and then tries to show the world how smart he is. you do not get that sort of a chance every year. but hey, its ok,, roman got us to within five yards of winning the super bowl,, who gives a s**t if he blew it from there,, we got close and you should all be happy with that esp after what happened to our team before roman i think that is the way the company line goes

I wish I were half as articulate about roman as cc is. cc just laid it out...unfortunately, that was not an isolated example....

Originally posted by cciowa:
i am glad you guys were all happy about what happened after the "genius" got us to the five, it was actually gore who did it but whatever. you can spin it however you want but he f**ked up on second third and fourth. yes i know it was the refs fault the best run attack in the nfl, the best run blocking line in the nfl, a well rested gore back on second down,, dixon who could get a tough yard or two,, f**kin ck who could fall across the line of scrimmage and get a touchdown. so what does roman do. use gore for a decoy and then tries to show the world how smart he is. you do not get that sort of a chance every year. but hey, its ok,, roman got us to within five yards of winning the super bowl,, who gives a s**t if he blew it from there,, we got close and you should all be happy with that esp after what happened to our team before roman i think that is the way the company line goes

1) the only genius is bill walsh

2) every call he makes that works is cuz of the player, not him. got it.

3) every bad call he makes his all his fault, not the players. got it.

4) we didn't JUST lose cuz of a bad call, or JUST because we didnt punch it in on 4 downs. we lost because we were trailing 28-6 in the third quarter.

5) 2 & 3 were sarcastic if you couldn't tell

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

Originally posted by cciowa:
i am glad you guys were all happy about what happened after the "genius" got us to the five, it was actually gore who did it but whatever. you can spin it however you want but he f**ked up on second third and fourth. yes i know it was the refs fault the best run attack in the nfl, the best run blocking line in the nfl, a well rested gore back on second down,, dixon who could get a tough yard or two,, f**kin ck who could fall across the line of scrimmage and get a touchdown. so what does roman do. use gore for a decoy and then tries to show the world how smart he is. you do not get that sort of a chance every year. but hey, its ok,, roman got us to within five yards of winning the super bowl,, who gives a s**t if he blew it from there,, we got close and you should all be happy with that esp after what happened to our team before roman i think that is the way the company line goes

1) the only genius is bill walsh

2) every call he makes that works is cuz of the player, not him. got it.

3) every bad call he makes his all his fault, not the players. got it.

4) we didn't JUST lose cuz of a bad call, or JUST because we didnt punch it in on 4 downs. we lost because we were trailing 28-6 in the third quarter.

5) 2 & 3 were sarcastic if you couldn't tell

It may sound asinine, but it almost feels as though we wanted to win that game with a pass because it would have looked so much better on a highlight reel. f**k that noise. We SHOULD have punched it in. The Colts game really drove the nail in the coffin for me. That second drive *CLEARLY* worked but Roman was so hard over flaunting the passing game after week 1 that the run was criminally overlooked. We have a top notch run game and it would have eventually opened up passing lanes had we committed to it for longer than a single drive. Roman is a blowhard.

Yeah, he's good, really good. But, he's great at outsmarting himself at times

Originally posted by LVJay:
Yeah, he's good, really good. But, he's great at outsmarting himself at times

and all i ask is that he does what he's been doing during this run but better.

power run.

give kap options in the passing game

make sure vance and baldwin aren't decoys

let gore and hunter kill the competition.

if we make a big pass play and get inside of the 7 yard line, line up and run it in, don't get cute with fake handoff misdirections

or even worse, don't run a pitch play to ted ginn backed up in our own territory where the only way the other team could score is if they got a defensive td.

Originally posted by LVJay:
Yeah, he's good, really good. But, he's great at outsmarting himself at times

i agree, i dont think he's a genius or anything. its just hilarious that he's portrayed as a terrible OC who has gotten us to an nfc championship game and a super bowl with 2 different qbs.

like i said, tell me someone who will do a better job.

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

Originally posted by LVJay:
Yeah, he's good, really good. But, he's great at outsmarting himself at times

i agree, i dont think he's a genius or anything. its just hilarious that he's portrayed as a terrible OC who has gotten us to an nfc championship game and a super bowl with 2 different qbs.

like i said, tell me someone who will do a better job.

True, but Roman (and all the coaches for this matter) get no more breaks/excuses though... we can't blow the big game, get cute in situations like the "5th & goal" or get blown out in the first half anymore. This team will get healthy on time and be primed, the coaches need to get it together.

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
and all i ask is that he does what he's been doing during this run but better.

power run.

give kap options in the passing game

make sure vance and baldwin aren't decoys

let gore and hunter kill the competition.

if we make a big pass play and get inside of the 7 yard line, line up and run it in, don't get cute with fake handoff misdirections

or even worse, don't run a pitch play to ted ginn backed up in our own territory where the only way the other team could score is if they got a defensive td.

Maybe the big lights kinda got in his head... none of the coaches been to a SB prior to that. I dunno, but no more excuses. When we get in the playoffs, we should steamroll (not our "first rodeo" anymore).

What's up with all the Romancuses? Personally, I think the perpetual issues we have had over the years (same under 2 different QB's) are a result more of the type of offense we run and the coaching/system for play calling. It's fundamentally flawed and has yet to be corrected. It's a collective fail not only in the offensive philosophy but also in how the game plans are devised, how the plays are chosen and how they are relayed to CK. I don't put all our consistent failures on Roman anymore; it seems to be more of a collective group effort. It's perfectly fair to question consistent issues for the past 3 years now if they have not been clearly fixed. Granted, Roman is the "man on point" so he's going to get the heat but name one OC in the NFL who has an offensive system like ours with compartmenalized game plans and running, passing and RZ plays with multiple coaches/staff collectively determine the plays DURING the game. It's VERY VERY odd.

Well put NC. I have started to think more about our HC also, because it IS his team. He ultimately decides who does what and when. Hence he has to share in the blame for what has been some unmitigated disastrous playcalling or game planning against SEA up there this yr and last. Hard to say this but Coach H is at heart a man who is really , really conservative. The only way to break that I think is to get an aggressive playcaller in who likes to use all the pieces on the chessboard, and who likes to throw to multiple targets on every play. When you look back, JH has as much culpability here as does hard head roman.

Actually, my choice for OC would be...Coach H. I would love to see a former NFL Qb of 14yrs experience be calling our plays, not roman. At least that way there is no question about who is responsible for our inept playcalling against the elites...against poorer teams roman does well. In big game, not so. Sure we beat GB. But the next two games were so conservative, that we deserved to lose. It isn't all just roman. JH is part and parcel of this problem of playcalling and game plan calling.

Yes, I would like to see roman go. But first I would like to see JH call one game entirely on his own...say in England, against a weak sister? Won't happen, but I think a guy who knows better than roman would do a better job. I just think sometimes, roman says "play x-52" and JH agrees. I'd love to see that change.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Well put NC. I have started to think more about our HC also, because it IS his team. He ultimately decides who does what and when. Hence he has to share in the blame for what has been some unmitigated disastrous playcalling or game planning against SEA up there this yr and last. Hard to say this but Coach H is at heart a man who is really , really conservative. The only way to break that I think is to get an aggressive playcaller in who likes to use all the pieces on the chessboard, and who likes to throw to multiple targets on every play. When you look back, JH has as much culpability here as does hard head roman.

Actually, my choice for OC would be...Coach H. I would love to see a former NFL Qb of 14yrs experience be calling our plays, not roman. At least that way there is no question about who is responsible for our inept playcalling against the elites...against poorer teams roman does well. In big game, not so. Sure we beat GB. But the next two games were so conservative, that we deserved to lose. It isn't all just roman. JH is part and parcel of this problem of playcalling and game plan calling.

Yes, I would like to see roman go. But first I would like to see JH call one game entirely on his own...say in England, against a weak sister? Won't happen, but I think a guy who knows better than roman would do a better job. I just think sometimes, roman says "play x-52" and JH agrees. I'd love to see that change.

Interesting take on Harbaugh. It may actually help his health long term if he has to call plays on the sidelines. LOL. Refs may actually give us a home field advantage for a change. Haha

The deeper issue is WHY is our offensive system this way? As if 4+ guys with their hands in his business, they then add Mangini as well? They are treating him like he is an 18 year old intern calling plays while his dad receovers from a stroke. And I'm wondering why more in here don't question this "process" more. It obvioulsy isn't working if the same issues persist under two totally different QB's, right? It's not hard to pin point the problem is it? I know we as Nner fans can justify ANYTHING but come on? These are the exact same issues for 3 straight years now. Granted, on sheer talent alone, Gore, VD and Boldin are going to single handidly win 80+ of games by themselves but it's great coaches and scheme that helps you overtake the real competition.

And where is CK in all of this? Clearly, Alex and the Walrus are game planning together very successfully under a pretty pure WCO over in KC. But I never hear anything re: CK coordinating with HaRoMan. Is it happening? What is CK seeing on the field, where does he feel the mismatches are, is he communicating with the WR/TE's on mismatches and routes and getting on the same page?

Anyhow, perhaps having Harbaugh being the OC will promote more collaboration between the HC/OC and the CK and grow together like we see with the elite QB's today. CK is in year 3 in this offense and the passing game is dumb'd down about as far as you can go and fortunately, the OL and Gore are crushing it right now as well as VD and Boldin are winning their 1on1's frequently as well. But where the hell is the rest of the team?

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

Originally posted by LVJay:
Yeah, he's good, really good. But, he's great at outsmarting himself at times

i agree, i dont think he's a genius or anything. its just hilarious that he's portrayed as a terrible OC who has gotten us to an nfc championship game and a super bowl with 2 different qbs.

like i said, tell me someone who will do a better job.

Any number of ......never mind.

But, seriously Roman seems pretty competent.

Hard to blame one person for all the mistakes or conversely to credit one person for all that goes right.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Well put NC. I have started to think more about our HC also, because it IS his team. He ultimately decides who does what and when. Hence he has to share in the blame for what has been some unmitigated disastrous playcalling or game planning against SEA up there this yr and last. Hard to say this but Coach H is at heart a man who is really , really conservative. The only way to break that I think is to get an aggressive playcaller in who likes to use all the pieces on the chessboard, and who likes to throw to multiple targets on every play. When you look back, JH has as much culpability here as does hard head roman.

Actually, my choice for OC would be...Coach H. I would love to see a former NFL Qb of 14yrs experience be calling our plays, not roman. At least that way there is no question about who is responsible for our inept playcalling against the elites...against poorer teams roman does well. In big game, not so. Sure we beat GB. But the next two games were so conservative, that we deserved to lose. It isn't all just roman. JH is part and parcel of this problem of playcalling and game plan calling.

Yes, I would like to see roman go. But first I would like to see JH call one game entirely on his own...say in England, against a weak sister? Won't happen, but I think a guy who knows better than roman would do a better job. I just think sometimes, roman says "play x-52" and JH agrees. I'd love to see that change.

I agree with the bolded. Harbaugh has the final say on every game plan. He's the head coach and that's the responsibility of the head coach, to put his stamp of approval on every game plan as it pertains to all three phases of the game. I put the blame more on Harbaugh when he decided to throw heavily in the IND game when the ground game was clearly working. I see the IND game as a better example of poor game planning when compared to this year's SEA game (week 2).

It's unclear to me what Roman's role is when it comes to gameday playcalling. I've seen some posters say that Roman calls the run play, Geep Cryst calls the pass play, then Harbaugh picks which one. If that's the case, then Harbaugh is deciding run/pass. Also, how is this public knowledge? I have not seen an interview where Harbaugh/Roman states that this is how it works on gameday. Just curious where this was stated.

Harbaugh may call his own plays one day, but he's still a young coach when it comes to the NFL and perhaps he thinks he isn't ready yet. That he brought in Mangini makes me believe Harbaugh acknowledges he doesn't quite know enough about the league where he believes he can generate all the strategic angles and viewpoints as it relates to game planning.

To your underlined point, I do not think Harbaugh is "really really conservative", although I suppose that depends a lot on each person's definition of "conservative". He made the move to Kap when he had a good thing going with AS last season. Not because Kap would yield less turnovers, but because he can do more with Kap. He came out favoring the pass to start this season (GB, SEA, IND). It wasn't until he realized that the WR corp was not up to snuff, and that Kap wasn't quite ready to shoulder the brunt of the offensive load that he backed off and got back to the ground game as the featured aspect of this offense. My bet is that once WR reinforcements arrive, and once Kap truly grasps all the skills of quarterbacking (whenever that may be), we'll see much more of a passing offense, much to my chagrin. Harbaugh "goes for it" when it's 3rd and long, another trait that does not make him conservative in my eyes.

Roman is lousy.

Its why the 49ers havent made the playoffs or been to a Superbowl since he's been here.