Michael Crabtree Thread

lets face it...crabtree is a pretty materialistic and wants a lot of money and wont give 49ers a hometown discount next season so i can see him really breaking out this year and having a dominant year. i think the whole sherman thing is a real motivator and he cant wait to get out there on the field and make him look silly. I bet there is a picture of sherman in crab's weight room. In conclusion i think crabtree will put up top 5 numbers this season as long as he stays healthy

WE need Crabtree to have a great year for 2 reasons.
1) Superbowl
2) High draft pick for losing him to free agency

Crabs felt we jobbed him on his initial contract, hence the protracted holdout...when we desperately needed a WR. Well we got him, and then he gets injured, and then returns. Crabs is not giving the hometeam any consession or discount w/r/to his upcoming contract. He has already proven that he wants to be paid like the top guy, and that just isn't going to happen. Esp, with his hx of games missed.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by NinerGM:
I'm going to say this and it's shocking me ... I actually agree with San Diego ..

I'm sorry but even to THIS team, Crabtree isn't worth $8 mil per year. People have been saying that "when Crabtree returned, the offense was much better because there was a viable third receiving option."

Maybe it's me but there are teams out there killing it with TWO receiving options - why is it that we need 3 for a functional offense.....

Anyway ... we are looking for/need a consistent dominant receiver. This offense would be better if we had:

Calvin Johnson (Detroit) $16.207 million
Larry Fitzgerald (Arizona) $16.142 million
Dwayne Bowe (Kansas City) $11.2 million
Brandon Marshall (Chicago) $11.194 million
Vincent Jackson (Tampa Bay) $11.111 million
Andre Johnson (Houston) $10.185 million
Victor Cruz (N.Y. Giants) $8.6 million
Roddy White (Atlanta) $8.544 million

Joining Vernon, Anquan, Patton, now Lloyd and at times Gore out of the backfield. I'm sorry but I'd rather in this case either (trade up and) draft Crabtree's replacement of go after a prize FA at WR. 1 productive season in 6 years.

If they want to let Crabtree walk because he's too expensive, fine. But they better be prepared to load up on quality receiving options who can be productive.

Disagree that there are teams who function with only 2 receiving options. You can FEATURE 2 guys more than the others, but you have to have at least 4 or 5 guys total who are involved in the passing game, be it WRs, TEs, RBs. Last year we literally had 2 options all year, 3 when Crabtree came back.

If we don't want to use the RB in the passing game, we better load up on WR and TE talent. Crab-Boldin-Davis is a nice trio, but not nearly enough. We need 2 more guys that are capable of getting open and making plays on the ball.

Detroit?

We can all agree Detroit doesn't have a problem with their passing offense right?

Washington? I can't see more than two guys being significant in Washington.

Carolina - hasn't the question always been Steve Smith and who else? I know that question finally was answered last season with them but he carried the passing offense for years down there.

Detriot, Washington, and Carolina have more than 2 guys involved in the passing game. That's the key term -- involved.

Each of those teams had 6 players over 25 catches on the year. We had 2......that speaks volumes about our lack of ball distribution.

Granted, injuries and the # of passing attempts have something to do with that, but we cannot deny after watching this offense that there is very little ball distribution. The RB, #2 TE, and 3rd WR are not involved AT ALL. This is a problem as it does not force the defense to account for everyone on the field as a potential pass catcher.

I'm not saying I want to mimic those team's passing attacks...because I don't. What I want is to add better ball distribution, and add better receiving talent so we can maximize the potential of this offense. I understand that Crab-Boldin-Davis will get most of the passing targets, but that doesn't mean nobody else should be involved.

Even it's just 2 catches a game from someone else, that's huge. There is no reason why Gore, McDonald, and Patton can't get 2 catches a game to compliment Boldin-Crab-Davis.

Sofa, this is a coaching decision...to throw only to all pros, either Crabs or Anquan. We had PLENTY of guys we could have used last yr, but did we? Hell no, we could have used vance, Vernon, Baldwin, and patton hardly even got on the field. We had the guys, but coaching decision was to use but 2. For this coming yr, we don't have to have another receiver. We have enough. Two yrs out....that's a different story. But my point is we had the guys and JH and Ro-man chose not to use them. And that is the problem, not not having enough guys.

I still say our most pressing need this yr is not CB, not SS, not WR, not qb. It is OC, first and foremost. Humpty dumbrowski calling the plays...well you get what you would expect. And yet, Coach H keeps him on. There must be a reason, but I sure don't see it.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Sofa, this is a coaching decision...to throw only to all pros, either Crabs or Anquan. We had PLENTY of guys we could have used last yr, but did we? Hell no, we could have used vance, Vernon, Baldwin, and patton hardly even got on the field. We had the guys, but coaching decision was to use but 2. For this coming yr, we don't have to have another receiver. We have enough. Two yrs out....that's a different story. But my point is we had the guys and JH and Ro-man chose not to use them. And that is the problem, not not having enough guys.

I still say our most pressing need this yr is not CB, not SS, not WR, not qb. It is OC, first and foremost. Humpty dumbrowski calling the plays...well you get what you would expect. And yet, Coach H keeps him on. There must be a reason, but I sure don't see it.

I'm not so sure about that, doc. It's possible they didn't have the confidence in those guys, and chose not to throw to them, so I might agree with you on that. But then I have to ask "Why didn't they have confidence in them?".

Think back to 2012. Crabtree was the main guy, but we also got production from Davis, Walker, Manningham, Moss. That's 5 guys who had a role in the passing offense, be it big or small.

In 2013 we contracted the passing offense to 3 guys. Everyone else was lucky to even see 1 pass thrown their way. What changed? The scheme, or the players on the field? My guess is the players, given the fact we lost Moss, Walker, and Manningham(injury) and the replacements could not seem to fill the void.

I'm not going to give the benefit of the doubt to unproven players like McDonald, Patton, and Baldwin. The benefit of the doubt goes to Harbaugh, his coaching staff, and Kap. Those guys are winners and they are proven to be good coaches/players. Why people stick up for unproven players who've produced nothing is beyond me.

Bottom line, 3-man rotation is not enough. We need to get the others more involved. Whether it's the coaching decisions or better players, they have to get it done.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Sofa, this is a coaching decision...to throw only to all pros, either Crabs or Anquan. We had PLENTY of guys we could have used last yr, but did we? Hell no, we could have used vance, Vernon, Baldwin, and patton hardly even got on the field. We had the guys, but coaching decision was to use but 2. For this coming yr, we don't have to have another receiver. We have enough. Two yrs out....that's a different story. But my point is we had the guys and JH and Ro-man chose not to use them. And that is the problem, not not having enough guys.

I still say our most pressing need this yr is not CB, not SS, not WR, not qb. It is OC, first and foremost. Humpty dumbrowski calling the plays...well you get what you would expect. And yet, Coach H keeps him on. There must be a reason, but I sure don't see it.

Or maybe Baldwin sucks, Pattons injury put him behind the curve developmentally and McDonald dropped too many important passes when given the chance so they stopped going to him. If McDonald makes an easy grab, we are playing in SF for the NFC championship game.

Look im not a fan of Romans, but maybe just maybe guys like James, and Baldwin just suck and therefor can't be utilized correctly. Maybe the players own a bit more of our offenses failures that the staff is currently being blamed for?

Teams that want to hold a strong core of players together cannot afford to have WRs drawing elite money. A quality QB is going to get the biggest paycheck. After that the GM has to constantly bring in young players that perform on rookie contracts to offset the few core players getting top money. With the college game going to so much passing, there will always be a steady stream of quality WRs coming along. For that reason, and Crabtree's history of holding out for top money, there is no reason to pay him elite money. He isn't that good. Let him go play for Jerry Jones and see if he makes Tony Romo any better.

Originally posted by dj43:
Teams that want to hold a strong core of players together cannot afford to have WRs drawing elite money. A quality QB is going to get the biggest paycheck. After that the GM has to constantly bring in young players that perform on rookie contracts to offset the few core players getting top money. With the college game going to so much passing, there will always be a steady stream of quality WRs coming along. For that reason, and Crabtree's history of holding out for top money, there is no reason to pay him elite money. He isn't that good. Let him go play for Jerry Jones and see if he makes Tony Romo any better.

Great point of view...
So who would you fight to draft in this upcoming draft as a WR

WINer, how can any of us say, one way or the other, who is at fault, when the little used guys you mentioned, rarely got their numbers called. JH is a stickler about not letting young guys(1st yr rooks) allow them to lose a game for him. OK, I buy into that, but we had a handful of games we won by 30 pts. My observation at the time was it would have been an ideal time to throw to vance, LMJ(that was NEVER going to happen), Baldwin, patton. But between JH and ro-man, they just flat out decided against it. Hey, it is JH's team ,he is the coach, and that's it. But they did miss a golden opportunity to see what they really had on the bench.

So here we are Sofa, getting ready for draft and guess what? JH and ro-man still don't know what they have for the little used receivers on the bench and I include vance in that. That is a shame. A coach should know what he has/doesn't have on the bench before going into the draft. And frankly, I am not any too sure they actually know. THAT is the best reason I can think of to use your entire team in 30 pt wins. The wise coach knows who he has on the bench and what that guy can do. WE coulda done a lot better.

DJ, I have thot that in the past, but never seen it written. It is as true as the sky is blue. QBs make the dough, and WRs have to be content with the part of the pie eaten up by that big qB contract. Oddly, that is not the situation we have been in but it is rapidly approaching...

I doubt Michael asks for Elite money. I bet its in the 7-9 a year range.He really has only had 1 good healthy season.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by NinerGM:
I'm going to say this and it's shocking me ... I actually agree with San Diego ..

I'm sorry but even to THIS team, Crabtree isn't worth $8 mil per year. People have been saying that "when Crabtree returned, the offense was much better because there was a viable third receiving option."

Maybe it's me but there are teams out there killing it with TWO receiving options - why is it that we need 3 for a functional offense.....

Anyway ... we are looking for/need a consistent dominant receiver. This offense would be better if we had:

Calvin Johnson (Detroit) $16.207 million
Larry Fitzgerald (Arizona) $16.142 million
Dwayne Bowe (Kansas City) $11.2 million
Brandon Marshall (Chicago) $11.194 million
Vincent Jackson (Tampa Bay) $11.111 million
Andre Johnson (Houston) $10.185 million
Victor Cruz (N.Y. Giants) $8.6 million
Roddy White (Atlanta) $8.544 million

Joining Vernon, Anquan, Patton, now Lloyd and at times Gore out of the backfield. I'm sorry but I'd rather in this case either (trade up and) draft Crabtree's replacement of go after a prize FA at WR. 1 productive season in 6 years.

If they want to let Crabtree walk because he's too expensive, fine. But they better be prepared to load up on quality receiving options who can be productive.

Disagree that there are teams who function with only 2 receiving options. You can FEATURE 2 guys more than the others, but you have to have at least 4 or 5 guys total who are involved in the passing game, be it WRs, TEs, RBs. Last year we literally had 2 options all year, 3 when Crabtree came back.

If we don't want to use the RB in the passing game, we better load up on WR and TE talent. Crab-Boldin-Davis is a nice trio, but not nearly enough. We need 2 more guys that are capable of getting open and making plays on the ball.

Detroit?

We can all agree Detroit doesn't have a problem with their passing offense right?

Washington? I can't see more than two guys being significant in Washington.

Carolina - hasn't the question always been Steve Smith and who else? I know that question finally was answered last season with them but he carried the passing offense for years down there.

Detriot, Washington, and Carolina have more than 2 guys involved in the passing game. That's the key term -- involved.

Each of those teams had 6 players over 25 catches on the year. We had 2......that speaks volumes about our lack of ball distribution.

Granted, injuries and the # of passing attempts have something to do with that, but we cannot deny after watching this offense that there is very little ball distribution. The RB, #2 TE, and 3rd WR are not involved AT ALL. This is a problem as it does not force the defense to account for everyone on the field as a potential pass catcher.

I'm not saying I want to mimic those team's passing attacks...because I don't. What I want is to add better ball distribution, and add better receiving talent so we can maximize the potential of this offense. I understand that Crab-Boldin-Davis will get most of the passing targets, but that doesn't mean nobody else should be involved.

Even it's just 2 catches a game from someone else, that's huge. There is no reason why Gore, McDonald, and Patton can't get 2 catches a game to compliment Boldin-Crab-Davis.

You're confusing me here bud. Are you making the argument that only certain players "involve" themselves in the passing offense at a time? That sounds purely like a scheme thing to me. The other side of this argument that players only involve themselves when Crabtree is on the field? If that's the case I see two major problems:

1) We shouldn't have any offensive starter who doesn't feel he can be completely involved and featured out there in passing situations regardless of who else is on the field with him. I completely don't buy for one moment that Crabtree's presence triggers the involvement of everyone else - from a skills players perspective.

2) If this is a scheme issue, than it doesn't matter if its Crabtree or Calvin Johnson, the plays designed and called shouldn't be limiting anyone if their talent level demands a higher bar.

I'm not going to give the benefit of the doubt to unproven players like McDonald, Patton, and Baldwin. The benefit of the doubt goes to Harbaugh, his coaching staff, and Kap. Those guys are winners and they are proven to be good coaches/players. Why people stick up for unproven players who've produced nothing is beyond me.

Here's where we agree to disagree. I don't think WZ can have it both ways; statistically if Crabtree is critical to this offense then by definition he can be replaced with equal or better talent that has more one bona fide production year in 6. If we ARE contracting the offense to 3 guys, that tells me either we're simplifying the offense for the coaches or the players - or one player - the QB. Regardless, the heart of the contract issue for Crabtree - whether we should pay him elite WR money - is moot and reason why we're trying to trade James; given this scheme, can this player be dominant with his skill set. I think over the past 6 seasons - okay let's say 3, I think the answer is not really. And it has nothing to do with his ability to catch.

Health.

Sorry for the confusion. We're making this more complicated than it has to be.

My point is I want more than 2 or 3 guys involved in the passing game. I don't think we're maximizing our team's ability by just throwing passes to Crab, VD, and Boldin. They are outstanding players individually, but our passing game continues to bog down at times. We need the 2nd TE, 3rd WR, and RB more involved in the passing game. Currently, they are not involved in any way.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
WINer, how can any of us say, one way or the other, who is at fault, when the little used guys you mentioned, rarely got their numbers called. JH is a stickler about not letting young guys(1st yr rooks) allow them to lose a game for him. OK, I buy into that, but we had a handful of games we won by 30 pts. My observation at the time was it would have been an ideal time to throw to vance, LMJ(that was NEVER going to happen), Baldwin, patton. But between JH and ro-man, they just flat out decided against it. Hey, it is JH's team ,he is the coach, and that's it. But they did miss a golden opportunity to see what they really had on the bench.

So here we are Sofa, getting ready for draft and guess what? JH and ro-man still don't know what they have for the little used receivers on the bench and I include vance in that. That is a shame. A coach should know what he has/doesn't have on the bench before going into the draft. And frankly, I am not any too sure they actually know. THAT is the best reason I can think of to use your entire team in 30 pt wins. The wise coach knows who he has on the bench and what that guy can do. WE coulda done a lot better.

DJ, I have thot that in the past, but never seen it written. It is as true as the sky is blue. QBs make the dough, and WRs have to be content with the part of the pie eaten up by that big qB contract. Oddly, that is not the situation we have been in but it is rapidly approaching...

I'm with you. I'm disappointed we don't have a better idea of what we have in Vance and Patton. I wish they were more of a factor in the passing game, but it didn't happen. I felt Vance should have been given more opportunity, but at the same time drops plagued him throughout the year. Tough to put confidence in a player that doesn't catch the ball. Patton looks like a gamer. Hope he earns a bigger role in 2013.

This season should determine if Crabs stays (unless tagged). If he has a 'so-so' year, say 60/900/8TDs, I think the 49ers have a chance to re-sign him. If he balls out of control like KapTree at the end of 2012, Crabs is headed for greener pastures. I hope Kap distributes nicely between Boldin/VD/Crabs/one other guy. This might lower Crabs' value to an affordable price. I agree with those that say a huge risk is his injury history. Just too scary to commit a lot to a player that has had multiple injury issues.

I hope we can resign Crabtree but with all our picks and a very deep WR class I would like to see us get a couple of young WR's to start developing. It usually takes a season or two for them to develop anyway. With our extra picks and the depth at WR this is the year to draft a couple of them.