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Eric Mangini Thread

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Eric Mangini Thread

Originally posted by thl408:
I didn't know anything about Mangini's scheme when he was named DC. I went off his history of learning under Belichick as defensive backs coach. The article Phoenix posted shows how Belichick and Sabean gave birth to pattern matching. So I connected the dots and thought Mangini would keep the pattern match scheme. Pretty much the only thing he kept from the previous scheme is the base 3-4 front.

Another good link where Saban talks further about how pattern matching came about, starting with back when he was in Cleveland.




At the time, Saban and Belichick most preferred running a Cover 3 defense, which meant there were three defenders playing zones downfield. But the Steelers had consistently shredded it by running four receivers deep against those three defenders, meaning one of them would always be open. Saban continued,



"So because we could not defend this, we could not play 3 deep, so when you can't play zone, what do you do next? You play Man (cover 1), but if their mens are better than your mens, you can't play cover 1. "We got to where we couldn't run cover 1 - So now we can't play an 8 man front. The 1994 Browns went 13-5 , we lost to Steelers 3 times, lost 5 games total (twice in the regular season, once in the playoffs). We gave up the 5th fewest points in the history of the NFL, and lost to Steelers because we could not play 8-man fronts to stop the run because they would wear us out throwing it."





"We came up with this concept; how we can play cover 1 and cover 3 at the same time, so we can do both these things and one thing would complement the other. We came up with the concept 'rip/liz match.'"




Unlike a traditional zone defense, where a defender drops to a spot and reacts to any receiver that enters that area, Saban's pattern matching scheme is akin to a matchup zone in basketball. For those that aren't familiar with that hardwood concept, it simply means a defender defends their man with the technique of man-to-man coverage until he crosses with another receiver, at which time the defenders simply trade responsibilities instead of following the whole way.

This can often be very confusing for a quarterback, as the defense appears to be playing man coverage, which would open up certain patterns such as crossing routes or deep, vertical streaks like the routes Saban mentioned the Steelers ran.




The benefit for Saban and Alabama is that they can easily adapt it to whatever the offense throws their way. The defensive back is only dropping to play man coverage if the receiver takes off vertically. If the receivers cross though, they drop to play a zone, meaning their eyes are in the backfield.

By rotating a safety to the strength of the formation into the box, Saban has also now created an eight man box where the defense isn't turning their backs to the line of scrimmage in coverage against a running play, meaning they're much better prepared to stop the run.


http://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/2014/12/46950/film-study-nick-sabans-pattern-matching-pass-defense
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Sep 29, 2015 at 12:57 PM ]
Originally posted by thl408:
^^ that is a fantastic article and just one of many that describe pattern matching. If anyone wants to see examples of it, check out the Pinned 'Concepts' thread. I saw the 49ers run many Fire Zone blitzes versus ARI and they did not pattern match. There is a way to incorporate blitzing and pattern matching which what I swore what would happen when Mangini came along. Bring the blitz packages that Mangini likes, then incorporate what Fangio/Donatell were teaching. Truly the best of both worlds. Mangini has abandoned the pattern match scheme and it is a downright shame.

It's things like this that make me wish there was a way to influence the coaches to implement it again. Can we go to the media and have them ask why we've abandoned it? It's a great question really.
Damn, my old eyes, I thought the thread had been changed to "Eric Mangini fired as 49ers DC" wishful thinking!
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by thl408:
^^ that is a fantastic article and just one of many that describe pattern matching. If anyone wants to see examples of it, check out the Pinned 'Concepts' thread. I saw the 49ers run many Fire Zone blitzes versus ARI and they did not pattern match. There is a way to incorporate blitzing and pattern matching which what I swore what would happen when Mangini came along. Bring the blitz packages that Mangini likes, then incorporate what Fangio/Donatell were teaching. Truly the best of both worlds. Mangini has abandoned the pattern match scheme and it is a downright shame.

It's things like this that make me wish there was a way to influence the coaches to implement it again. Can we go to the media and have them ask why we've abandoned it? It's a great question really.

I was just about to say this OTC. I don't have Twitter, but everyone here who does can you tweet Barrows, or Inman, or Maiocco and tell them to ask Mangini why he doesn't run pattern matching when it has so much success last year and all the defenders know how to run it since all the DB's were on the team last year. Maybe enough tweets could get one of them to ask and maybe we can get an answer?
Just heard on the radio that the majority of Palmers throws were around 2.5 seconds from snap.

What the hell? How were they open so fast and open by like 5-10 yards?
Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Just heard on the radio that the majority of Palmers throws were around 2.5 seconds from snap.

What the hell? How were they open so fast and open by like 5-10 yards?

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/183347-week-arizona-cardinals-coaches-film-analysis/


Credit goes to thl for the gif.

Two guys wide open across the middle of the defense, these are the big gaps that I was talking about. This is a scheme issue. The receivers are passed off by the LB's and there is a big gap before the safeties get to them. This is free money for a veteran QB.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Sep 29, 2015 at 2:39 PM ]
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Just heard on the radio that the majority of Palmers throws were around 2.5 seconds from snap.

What the hell? How were they open so fast and open by like 5-10 yards?

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/183347-week-arizona-cardinals-coaches-film-analysis/


Credit goes to thl for the gif.

Two guys wide open across the middle of the defense, these are the big gaps that I was talking about. This is a scheme issue. The receivers are passed off by the LB's and there is a big gap before the safeties get to them. This is free money for a veteran QB.

Great Gif... Sucks that there were 2 wide open guys.
  • Hopper
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Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/183347-week-arizona-cardinals-coaches-film-analysis/


Credit goes to thl for the gif.

Two guys wide open across the middle of the defense, these are the big gaps that I was talking about. This is a scheme issue. The receivers are passed off by the LB's and there is a big gap before the safeties get to them. This is free money for a veteran QB.

I can just imagine the smile on Rodgers face when he watches the film of this game.
Hope this guy can adjust his schemes quickly and get these young guys qll on the same page like we were in week 1.
So i just watched the game on TV for the first time, i know why would i do that, but i just had to watch it for some reason.

I know the game was bad and the score indicated it and there is no denying that.

I know a lot of manginis blitzing scheme has come under fire recently but something i noticed made me wonder if its his scheme or bad player excecution. Seemed like when he would call blitzes and pressure the players would bunch themselves together and make it easier to be blocked. It didnt seem like they had enough seperation or lanes to get through. They bunched together and 2-3 OL could block 3 guys. I wonder if it was the rushers fault or AZ did a freat job of funneling together to make it so. Then i watch AZ and when they brought pressure they had good spacing to win one on ones or leave a lane for blitzers. Again i wonder if that was the plan of the DL or OL

Az RBs did a great job of picking up the free rusher but Palmer took his fair share of shots
Originally posted by Hopper:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/183347-week-arizona-cardinals-coaches-film-analysis/


Credit goes to thl for the gif.

Two guys wide open across the middle of the defense, these are the big gaps that I was talking about. This is a scheme issue. The receivers are passed off by the LB's and there is a big gap before the safeties get to them. This is free money for a veteran QB.

I can just imagine the smile on Rodgers face when he watches the film of this game.

I think every receiver was open on that play.
  • Antix
  • Veteran
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Originally posted by SFTifoso:
Originally posted by Hopper:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/183347-week-arizona-cardinals-coaches-film-analysis/


Credit goes to thl for the gif.

Two guys wide open across the middle of the defense, these are the big gaps that I was talking about. This is a scheme issue. The receivers are passed off by the LB's and there is a big gap before the safeties get to them. This is free money for a veteran QB.

I can just imagine the smile on Rodgers face when he watches the film of this game.

I think every receiver was open on that play.

Yup. Palmer coulda thrown that up blindfolded and hit a receiver. Every single receiver was open. Mangini is garbage.
Like Tim Ryan said durring the game. You can't just stop in a zone when a player runs by you and hope someone else covers then. You have to play that man lol. He said the 49er players are playin the zone like it looks on paper. Just horrible.

And why on earth when you get torched by Pitt last week you come out with the same game plan and have LBs covering slot receivers in the 1st q in Arizona!?!

Pathetic.
Originally posted by tohara3:
Hope this guy can adjust his schemes quickly and get these young guys qll on the same page like we were in week 1.

If Tim Ryan is correct, I hope the players learn to play the sceme better! I had also noticed the LBs stopping their coverage and handing off to DBs who were ten to fifteen yards behind them over the middle...oops.
Our defense reminds me of the time I was playing my son in Madden when he was like 8 years old. He called a goal line defense when I had the ball first and ten from like the 50 yard line. I just lobbed a pass over the middle to my slot receiver and scored a touchdown. I'm all like IN YOUR FACE ROOK, YOU GOTTA BE SMARTER THAN THAT!. So yeah our defense looks like an 8 year old is calling plays out there.
[ Edited by SoCold on Sep 30, 2015 at 5:32 AM ]
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