Eric Mangini Thread

Originally posted by jreff22:
Really wish we kept Fangio.

Me too. Knowing Fangio's scheme, there is no doubt in my mind he would do a better job coordinating this defense.

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Really wish we kept Fangio.

Me too. Knowing Fangio's scheme, there is no doubt in my mind he would do a better job coordinating this defense.

Exactly. We may not win but we won't look like fools.

I'm glad the media has picked up on this. They can start asking the questions.

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Really wish we kept Fangio.

We could thank Baalke for burning that bridge. If we would've hired an offensive minded HC, he wanted Tomsula to be DC. Judging by the way our D currently looks, it would've been screwed whether Tomsula was the HC or not.

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Embarrassing. You shouldn't be in your base 34 front this much against three wide receiver sets.

The sad thing is that if we keep Mangini, we may be drafting more LB/S hybrids because it appears Mangini likes to surprise rush rather than simply rush with damn good pass rushers.

Originally posted by Joecool:
The sad thing is that if we keep Mangini, we may be drafting more LB/S hybrids because it appears Mangini likes to surprise rush rather than simply rush with damn good pass rushers.

The thing is, he's not even using his LB/S hybrids to his advantage. Tartt played 24% of snaps against AZ. Ward played 19% of snaps.

Now compare that to AZ, who successfully use their depth at S to their advantage. Johnson, Buccanon, Matheiu all played 82% of snaps, Jefferson played 36%. 3 safeties playing the large majority of snaps. That's using their hybrid players properly.

His defense is so complex, players need a red shirt year just to be able to apply it. Fangio's defense could stick rookies in immediately.

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by Joecool:
The sad thing is that if we keep Mangini, we may be drafting more LB/S hybrids because it appears Mangini likes to surprise rush rather than simply rush with damn good pass rushers.

The thing is, he's not even using his LB/S hybrids to his advantage. Tartt played 24% of snaps against AZ. Ward played 19% of snaps.

Now compare that to AZ, who successfully use their depth at S to their advantage. Johnson, Buccanon, Matheiu all played 82% of snaps, Jefferson played 36%. 3 safeties playing the large majority of snaps. That's using their hybrid players properly.

Need to be using 6 to 7 DB's more often. Whilhote and Brooks, Lynch are not the kind of LB's that can cover TE's and should never be asked to cover Wr's. Bowman is not back to 100 percent and probably won't be this year and he is a liability in coverage now too. We should put the speaker helmet on either Reid or Bethea and get Tartt and Ward in the game a lot more. Tartt can still play the run like a LB if a team decides to run it because we have 6 or 7 Db's so I don't think we lose much there but gain so much in coverage. Also on passing downs Brooks,Lynch and AA should be rushing the passer along with maybe Carradine. TJE offers now pass rush and is coming in on 3rd downs a lot.

Originally posted by Joecool:
His defense is so complex, players need a red shirt year just to be able to apply it. Fangio's defense could stick rookies in immediately.

There are certain elements of his defense that are complex, namely the pre-snap disguises, blitzing, and asking players to do things outside the norm (OLBs dropping back in coverage 40 % of the time).

But in terms of his actual coverage scheme, its not complex at all. It's very simple. It's straight up zone. Fangio's pattern match was more complex and difficult to teach. It's just a superior scheme that mixes zone and man concepts depending on the routes of the receivers. thl described it nicely, but it's an absolute shame we scrapped it. Huge step back from a scheme standpoint.

Originally posted by leakyfausett:
Need to be using 6 to 7 DB's more often. Whilhote and Brooks, Lynch are not the kind of LB's that can cover TE's and should never be asked to cover Wr's. Bowman is not back to 100 percent and probably won't be this year and he is a liability in coverage now too. We should put the speaker helmet on either Reid or Bethea and get Tartt and Ward in the game a lot more. Tartt can still play the run like a LB if a team decides to run it because we have 6 or 7 Db's so I don't think we lose much there but gain so much in coverage. Also on passing downs Brooks,Lynch and AA should be rushing the passer along with maybe Carradine. TJE offers now pass rush and is coming in on 3rd downs a lot.

Totally agree. When we drafted Tartt, I was sure that's what we would do. We have to an extent, but not nearly enough.

The OLBs need to get back to rushing the passer. Dropping them in coverage as much as we have is cute and it's killing our pass rush.

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by leakyfausett:
Need to be using 6 to 7 DB's more often. Whilhote and Brooks, Lynch are not the kind of LB's that can cover TE's and should never be asked to cover Wr's. Bowman is not back to 100 percent and probably won't be this year and he is a liability in coverage now too. We should put the speaker helmet on either Reid or Bethea and get Tartt and Ward in the game a lot more. Tartt can still play the run like a LB if a team decides to run it because we have 6 or 7 Db's so I don't think we lose much there but gain so much in coverage. Also on passing downs Brooks,Lynch and AA should be rushing the passer along with maybe Carradine. TJE offers now pass rush and is coming in on 3rd downs a lot.

Totally agree. When we drafted Tartt, I was sure that's what we would do. We have to an extent, but not nearly enough.

The OLBs need to get back to rushing the passer. Dropping them in coverage as much as we have is cute and it's killing our pass rush.

This for sure.

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Totally agree. When we drafted Tartt, I was sure that's what we would do. We have to an extent, but not nearly enough.

The OLBs need to get back to rushing the passer. Dropping them in coverage as much as we have is cute and it's killing our pass rush.

There are no words to express my incredible disappointment at this backwards ass scheme that Mangini has put in. You could have Von Miller and Justin Houston at the OLBs and Revis and Talib at the CBs and this defense would still be getting lit up.

Even if you eliminated a lot of the spacing issues and mental miscues, good QBs are still going to pick this defense apart. Just too many gaps to go attack and the coverage is pretty predictable. This is the kind of coverage that Bill Walsh solved back in the late 80s, its a scheme that can work if you have dominant players at every position but virtually any scheme can work if you have dominant players everywhere.


Mangini took over an existing scheme that was already effective and instead of adding his own touches to it, maybe increasing the frequency of blitzing, being more aggressive, he took a hot steaming diarrhea dump all over it.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
There are no words to express my incredible disappointment at this backwards ass scheme that Mangini has put in. You could have Von Miller and Justin Houston at the OLBs and Revis and Talib at the CBs and this defense would still be getting lit up.

Even if you eliminated a lot of the spacing issues and mental miscues, good QBs are still going to pick this defense apart. Just too many gaps to go attack and the coverage is pretty predictable.


Mangini took over an existing scheme that was already effective and instead of adding his own touches to it, maybe increasing the frequency of blitzing, being more aggressive, he took a hot steaming diarrhea dump all over it.

I'm also at a loss for words. I had some concerns about Mangini, but never did I think he'd call the defense this poorly.

His aim is to cause confusion, and it's not fooling anyone. It's just putting players in odd positions, unable to make a play.

Other than the 3-4 front, this is nothing like Fangio's defense. We needed a few wrinkles, not a complete overhaul in philosophy. This defense is a freak show.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

He also spent almost a decade as an assistant, secondary coach and DC under Belichick. But his scheme completely neglects things that the Patriots have done well for years, especially when he was there.

Mangini was the DC for New England for one year, 2005.
In 2004 the Patriots defense ranked 2nd in points allowed and 9th in yards.
In 2005 the Patriots defense ranked 17th in points allowed and 26th in yards.
In 2006 the Patriots defense ranked 2nd in points allowed and 6th in yards.

I am not sure how this guy got the job. New England had their worst defensive year in the Belichick era when Mangini was their DC and Vernon Davis had his worst year of his career when Mangini was the TE coach. WTF?

Originally posted by SofaKing:

What a brilliant scheme.

If we're going use our OLB's in coverage this much I hope Mangini isn't the DC next season.