Eric Mangini Thread

It's Cohn, but it's just a transcript of Mangini's interview. This is not the entire interview, just the parts I found interesting. The rest of it is, "How do you defend Rodgers?
"He's good."
http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/eric-mangini-try-give-sameness-likeness-every-week/

Did you evaluate the zone defense that you guys have been playing and what do you need to do to tighten that up?

"Well, it's any zone, there's multiple zones, so you go running down the line. Each one has different things that you have to do, and it's everybody working together. It's a function of not just the backend and the holes in the zone and the spots where you're weak, but it's the frontend too. Being able to generate enough pass rush, whether you bring four or five or three. And it's those two things working together. And, getting back to the earlier point, it's also not giving away which one you're in because once they know, cover-three you're going to throw certain things, cover-two you're going to throw certain things. So, it's post-snap and it's the coordination of the front and the backend improving."

Generally speaking, would you feel like your guys are getting beaten individually or do you think it's more collective?

"Well, I don't think it's ever a function of one guy in any play. I mean, every now and then, a guy falls down or something like that. But, it's collectively us getting better as a whole group, as opposed to, 'OK, if we just fix this one thing we're fine.' And, you're going to have variations. So, there's different things that you've got to improve on in those different zones."

ME: Your defense was in its base personnel package for more than 60-percent of the plays Week 3, according to Pro Football Focus. Was that the game plan going in? Why did you make that decision and looking back was that the right way to play it?

"Well, they really weren't in much sub after the game got a little bit further along the road. So, I think that probably got skewed just because of the personnel group they were in. They were primarily in big people with an extra tight end or two extra tight ends, or 12-personnel with two tight ends. So, early in the game we had some base. Then we moved to more of a substituted package. But, that's been varied each week."

Originally posted by thl408:
It's Cohn, but it's just a transcript of Mangini's interview. This is not the entire interview, just the parts I found interesting. The rest of it is, "How do you defend Rodgers?
"He's good."
http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/eric-mangini-try-give-sameness-likeness-every-week/

Did you evaluate the zone defense that you guys have been playing and what do you need to do to tighten that up?

"Well, it's any zone, there's multiple zones, so you go running down the line. Each one has different things that you have to do, and it's everybody working together. It's a function of not just the backend and the holes in the zone and the spots where you're weak, but it's the frontend too. Being able to generate enough pass rush, whether you bring four or five or three. And it's those two things working together. And, getting back to the earlier point, it's also not giving away which one you're in because once they know, cover-three you're going to throw certain things, cover-two you're going to throw certain things. So, it's post-snap and it's the coordination of the front and the backend improving."

Generally speaking, would you feel like your guys are getting beaten individually or do you think it's more collective?

"Well, I don't think it's ever a function of one guy in any play. I mean, every now and then, a guy falls down or something like that. But, it's collectively us getting better as a whole group, as opposed to, 'OK, if we just fix this one thing we're fine.' And, you're going to have variations. So, there's different things that you've got to improve on in those different zones."

ME: Your defense was in its base personnel package for more than 60-percent of the plays Week 3, according to Pro Football Focus. Was that the game plan going in? Why did you make that decision and looking back was that the right way to play it?

"Well, they really weren't in much sub after the game got a little bit further along the road. So, I think that probably got skewed just because of the personnel group they were in. They were primarily in big people with an extra tight end or two extra tight ends, or 12-personnel with two tight ends. So, early in the game we had some base. Then we moved to more of a substituted package. But, that's been varied each week."

Hey TH didn't Pittsburgh play a lot of max protect and then take deep shots down the field? Seems like teams are just going max protect and sending out 2 wr's out. In Pitt's case they went for deep home run plays while Ari just hit Fitz in wide open spots of the zone defense.

I think Manging needs to switch up his blitzes more. Like from different sides and with different guys. Doesn't always have to be a safety. I haven't noticed Bowman and Brooks both blitzing up the A gap at the same time. Or Whilhoite and Lynch both from the same side of the defense. Or a CB blitz.

I take it no answer or question about pattern matching

Originally posted by SofaKing:
Good call on Vance Joseph. Seems like he could have been our 1st choice before Cincy blocked him from interviewing.

I would love Joseph as our DC

Originally posted by lamontb:
Hey TH didn't Pittsburgh play a lot of max protect and then take deep shots down the field? Seems like teams are just going max protect and sending out 2 wr's out. In Pitt's case they went for deep home run plays while Ari just hit Fitz in wide open spots of the zone defense.

I think Manging needs to switch up his blitzes more. Like from different sides and with different guys. Doesn't always have to be a safety. I haven't noticed Bowman and Brooks both blitzing up the A gap at the same time. Or Whilhoite and Lynch both from the same side of the defense. Or a CB blitz.

I take it no answer or question about pattern matching

PIT did keep in 2 additional blockers and sent out three route combinations a number of times. Thing is, versus PIT, the 49ers didn't blitz much. They just gave a high pressure presnap look, then ran the safeties back. Proceeded to get burned over the top along the sidelines.

Versus ARI, they did send 5 rushers, then played zone behind it (fire zone), not man coverage. So by keeping in an additional blocker and dialing up flood concepts, ARI was able to pick apart the 49er zone defense. The 49er blitzes were not getting the job done, and the one time it did, Acker got an INT. This was on a slot CB blitz (Brock). Overall, Palmer made quick decisions and nice throws, but there were holes all over the place. He's playing a lot of zone behind his blitzes, not man coverage. I don't know if this is his preference or if he thinks the CBs aren't good enough.

I think he is somewhat mixing up his blitzes, they just aren't getting home. There is discussion about "why are the OLBs dropping back into coverage, they should be rushing the passer." This is because he's mixing up who is blitzing, and who are the 4 rushers (when not blitzing). Trying to confuse the pass pro. I haven't look closely at what kind of blitzes he is dialing up (you mentioned overloaded blitzes, Wilhoite/Lynch from same side).

Mangini has his hands tied when it comes to scheming to generate pressure. If he uses confusion by sending different rushers (ILBs/DBs), then Lynch/Brooks is dropping back into coverage - a few have pointed this out. If he comes with a standard 4 man rush with both OLBs rushing the passer, they aren't good enough to get it done. Some have mentioned the lack of stunts/loops when compared to Fangio, which I haven't noticed. I know they did stunt/loop during the preseason so it is a part of the defense.

The folks they tried to hype up the signing fo Wright is who killed me. He had a good training camp. He'll bring veteran leadership to the secondary. We rehabbed Carlos Rogers we can do the same with him. After pre season it was all quiet on Wright. I though Mangini was a solid hire though

I stated that if they actually let Pears start at right tackle then I would lose all hope in this staff. Well turns out letting Devey and Martin start are even bigger crimes.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Hey TH didn't Pittsburgh play a lot of max protect and then take deep shots down the field? Seems like teams are just going max protect and sending out 2 wr's out. In Pitt's case they went for deep home run plays while Ari just hit Fitz in wide open spots of the zone defense.

I think Manging needs to switch up his blitzes more. Like from different sides and with different guys. Doesn't always have to be a safety. I haven't noticed Bowman and Brooks both blitzing up the A gap at the same time. Or Whilhoite and Lynch both from the same side of the defense. Or a CB blitz.

I take it no answer or question about pattern matching

PIT did keep in 2 additional blockers and sent out three route combinations a number of times. Thing is, versus PIT, the 49ers didn't blitz much. They just gave a high pressure presnap look, then ran the safeties back. Proceeded to get burned over the top along the sidelines.

Versus ARI, they did send 5 rushers, then played zone behind it (fire zone), not man coverage. So by keeping in an additional blocker and dialing up flood concepts, ARI was able to pick apart the 49er zone defense. The 49er blitzes were not getting the job done, and the one time it did, Acker got an INT. This was on a slot CB blitz (Brock). Overall, Palmer made quick decisions and nice throws, but there were holes all over the place. He's playing a lot of zone behind his blitzes, not man coverage. I don't know if this is his preference or if he thinks the CBs aren't good enough.

I think he is somewhat mixing up his blitzes, they just aren't getting home. There is discussion about "why are the OLBs dropping back into coverage, they should be rushing the passer." This is because he's mixing up who is blitzing, and who are the 4 rushers (when not blitzing). Trying to confuse the pass pro. I haven't look closely at what kind of blitzes he is dialing up (you mentioned overloaded blitzes, Wilhoite/Lynch from same side).

Mangini has his hands tied when it comes to scheming to generate pressure. If he uses confusion by sending different rushers (ILBs/DBs), then Lynch/Brooks is dropping back into coverage - a few have pointed this out. If he comes with a standard 4 man rush with both OLBs rushing the passer, they aren't good enough to get it done. Some have mentioned the lack of stunts/loops when compared to Fangio, which I haven't noticed. I know they did stunt/loop during the preseason so it is a part of the defense.

How come AZ can continually dial up these effective blitzes? I know their secondary is very good, but it's not like I'm seeing some huge discrepancy between the personnel

I don't get this guys defensive schemes either he is blitzing safeties vs max protection or only rushing 3. Probably 2 of the worst planned defenses I've every seen the last 2 games.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
How come AZ can continually dial up these effective blitzes? I know their secondary is very good, but it's not like I'm seeing some huge discrepancy between the personnel

Like you said, their secondary is good. ARI plays man coverage behind their blitzes. The 49ers are playing zone behind their blitzes. Blitzes work when it's executed well. Every rusher has to work in concert with one another as they shoot their assigned gap or occupy their assigned OLman. In defense of the 49ers, this is the most they've blitzed in the past few seasons so it's a learning process.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

How come AZ can continually dial up these effective blitzes? I know their secondary is very good, but it's not like I'm seeing some huge discrepancy between the personnel

Like you said, their secondary is good. ARI plays man coverage behind their blitzes. The 49ers are playing zone behind their blitzes. Blitzes work when it's executed well. Every rusher has to work in concert with one another as they shoot their assigned gap or occupy their assigned OLman. In defense of the 49ers, this is the most they've blitzed in the past few seasons so it's a learning process.

And guys such as CB's, S's and ILB's are blitzing too for the first time while OLB's are dropping back a lot which I'm assuming affects rhythm as well. Takes a while to get in sync. I hope it starts to all gel quickly!

Mangini: "Hey I have an idea, lets blitz all of our DBs and drop all of our LBs into deep coverage!"

Originally posted by Antix:

I hope this is truly all a ploy to get some real coordiantors. Im sorry, Im a bit biased but I just cant stand Mangini.

Barrows said somethibg about Brooks and Lynch dropping back 40% of pass play so far this year. 40 percent! Im guessing so Mangini can try to be all deceitful and send a safety instead. Stupid.

I really hope he gets that playing straight up and putting Tartt/Ward on 3rd down to cover slot receivers might just be a better matchup and better way to play defense. Imagine Brooks on Cobb...LOL!

One thing to consider though, isn't just the straight Stat about, "40 percent" because offensive personnel has a lot to do with determining that as well.

What we used to see, was that we were so dominant against the run in base packages, that teams would often run 3 WR just so they could attempt to run the ball on our smaller nickel package. That, essentially, made us a 4-2-5 defense. Fangio even mentioned 8t after ward was drafted that a slit DB would play 70% of the defensive snaps. It's why they didn't out a huge value on Sopoaga. So, in your 4-2-5 defense, your 2 OLB/DE's are gonna rush the passer a lot.

This year, we're seeing much less 3 wide sets. Now, with our 3-4-4 defense, in passing situations, you will have 1 OLB dropping in coverage unless your bringing 5 and only dropping 6 in coverage. So, while the stats point to Mangini dropping his pass rushers an inordinate amount; it's more a result of what the opposing offense is doing, not Mangini just being a tard.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

How come AZ can continually dial up these effective blitzes? I know their secondary is very good, but it's not like I'm seeing some huge discrepancy between the personnel

Like you said, their secondary is good. ARI plays man coverage behind their blitzes. The 49ers are playing zone behind their blitzes. Blitzes work when it's executed well. Every rusher has to work in concert with one another as they shoot their assigned gap or occupy their assigned OLman. In defense of the 49ers, this is the most they've blitzed in the past few seasons so it's a learning process.

And guys such as CB's, S's and ILB's are blitzing too for the first time while OLB's are dropping back a lot which I'm assuming affects rhythm as well. Takes a while to get in sync. I hope it starts to all gel quickly!

Like Thl said, that sticky man coverage behind it helps a lot too. Having a guy named Patrick Peterson helps a lot too. He's, essentially, left on an island in man coverage and is spectacular. That gives the other guys a safety to help. If the opposing O tries to keep an extra blocker in, that frees up a middle lurker for even more help.

Comes back to the whole, "gotta have the horses to run in the Kentucky derby" thing.

I'm just not sold on our young DB's. I know the pass rush isn't helping and they're young, but I'm just not seeing the potential. They look like they have stiffer hips, lack ball skills, and have a hard time understanding NFL passing concepts quickly.

I hope I'm wrong, but it's hard to have hope even for the next year and a half.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Antix:

I hope this is truly all a ploy to get some real coordiantors. Im sorry, Im a bit biased but I just cant stand Mangini.

Barrows said somethibg about Brooks and Lynch dropping back 40% of pass play so far this year. 40 percent! Im guessing so Mangini can try to be all deceitful and send a safety instead. Stupid.

I really hope he gets that playing straight up and putting Tartt/Ward on 3rd down to cover slot receivers might just be a better matchup and better way to play defense. Imagine Brooks on Cobb...LOL!

One thing to consider though, isn't just the straight Stat about, "40 percent" because offensive personnel has a lot to do with determining that as well.

What we used to see, was that we were so dominant against the run in base packages, that teams would often run 3 WR just so they could attempt to run the ball on our smaller nickel package. That, essentially, made us a 4-2-5 defense. Fangio even mentioned 8t after ward was drafted that a slit DB would play 70% of the defensive snaps. It's why they didn't out a huge value on Sopoaga. So, in your 4-2-5 defense, your 2 OLB/DE's are gonna rush the passer a lot.

This year, we're seeing much less 3 wide sets. Now, with our 3-4-4 defense, in passing situations, you will have 1 OLB dropping in coverage unless your bringing 5 and only dropping 6 in coverage. So, while the stats point to Mangini dropping his pass rushers an inordinate amount; it's more a result of what the opposing offense is doing, not Mangini just being a tard.

Nope, mangini is just a tard

J/k..well..not really cuz i still think Mangini is a tard..but i get what youre saying.

Maybe we're seeing less 3 wr sets (though based on how many receivers have been running wild on us, it doesnt seem like it), but there were plays that Brooks was covering slot receivers (Fitz). So if there are 3 wrs out why isnt a nickel defense out? I just get the sense that LBs have too much coverage responsibility considering we used draft picks on a 1st and 2nd round safeties/slot corners these past offseasons. The last 2 games we've seen LBers getting bruned downfield. Im no scheme expert, but personnel wise I feel like we havent been matching up smartly.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Antix:
I hope this is truly all a ploy to get some real coordiantors. Im sorry, Im a bit biased but I just cant stand Mangini.

Barrows said somethibg about Brooks and Lynch dropping back 40% of pass play so far this year. 40 percent! Im guessing so Mangini can try to be all deceitful and send a safety instead. Stupid.

I really hope he gets that playing straight up and putting Tartt/Ward on 3rd down to cover slot receivers might just be a better matchup and better way to play defense. Imagine Brooks on Cobb...LOL!

One thing to consider though, isn't just the straight Stat about, "40 percent" because offensive personnel has a lot to do with determining that as well.

What we used to see, was that we were so dominant against the run in base packages, that teams would often run 3 WR just so they could attempt to run the ball on our smaller nickel package. That, essentially, made us a 4-2-5 defense. Fangio even mentioned 8t after ward was drafted that a slit DB would play 70% of the defensive snaps. It's why they didn't out a huge value on Sopoaga. So, in your 4-2-5 defense, your 2 OLB/DE's are gonna rush the passer a lot.

This year, we're seeing much less 3 wide sets. Now, with our 3-4-4 defense, in passing situations, you will have 1 OLB dropping in coverage unless your bringing 5 and only dropping 6 in coverage. So, while the stats point to Mangini dropping his pass rushers an inordinate amount; it's more a result of what the opposing offense is doing, not Mangini just being a tard.

I think the whole 'OLB dropping back in coverage more than ever' is largely due to Mangini's attempt to confuse. A 'standard' 4 man rush (3DL + 1 OLB) isn't cutting it like in past seasons. It used to when Justin/Aldon brought the heat, but that was in the past. I've seen a number of instances where both OLBs drop back into coverage and it's one of the ILBs (Bow) rushing up the middle (3DL + 1 ILB). It's all meant to cause confusion for the pass pro.

On this play, notice how both OLBs drop into coverage.


Fire zone: Both OLBs drop back while both ILBs blitz. Mangini has to get creative because rushing the 'normal 4' (3DL + 1 OLB) is not working.

^^can you explain why there are 3 wrs on the field but we're in base defense and our two highly drafted safeties the last two years are on the bench? To "confuse" the qb?