Eric Mangini Thread

I can't stand Mangini. I was hopeful he had learnt his lesson against GB. When you actually let players do their jobs, and give them the free reign to be aggressive and make plays we actually look good as a defense. This passive sitting in zone was getting destroyed all night. Huge holes all over. Ward, Brock, even Acker all covered well against the Packers. When we kept it simple we looked stout against a very good offense. When Mangini gets into his blitz disguises and these constant zone coverages we look terrible. We even had pretty good pressure on Eli but the holes were just so large and apparent it didn't matter. I am just praying this is the lesson he needs to keep things more simple and let guys plays. He seems to have learnt he needs to rush at least 4 so that is a positive step, but it was so hard watching this D from last week to this week/

How did he never adjust the defense to cover Vereen at the end of the game? Verren killed us. And our sub package with Tartt is kinda shaky. The Giants ran the ball well vs that package all night. And time to get Armstead way more snaps.

Originally posted by Evilgenius:
Well, I think Mangini was thinking we'd get home and that the zones would be the correct calls vs the plays being run at times but Manning was sharp today. Sometimes he's not and is prone to throwing picks. I sort of understand the mentality - but they should have dropped it quickly and instead stubbornly stuck with it. There were some interception opportunities but ironically they mostly came in man coverage outside of the Brock drop. Even though that's not really the strength of man coverage. Anyway, our guys are not zone corners. They aren't used to it. They actually seemed to be a bit frustrated by it all - I think they knew the calls were awful. Didn't seem to be trying as hard as they could have been at times (some guys anyway).

Originally posted by NCommand:
'Promising' is a better word. Thank you. Last game, it looked like Brock was back 100%, looked quick/fast/physical. Acker was in his comfort zone playing man and press as well. The S's were still deep dropping down to help as needed, Brooks and Lynch darn near had 6 sacks total, Rodgers was very very frustrated, Ward also looked healthy for the first time (44 yards to Cobb), etc.

This game? The Giants were down to their 3rd and 4th team players on offense...so to let them completely off the hook, we play the one proven scheme we can't play as a team...soft zone.

The second we didn't have Brooks, was the second Mangini should have scraped even THINKING about a soft zone. Any experienced QB is going to have a field day against that defense. Slants all night long, rarely, if ever, having to look past your primary reads, simple dump offs, screens, nobody contested at the LOS so they have free reign, etc. Just simple pitch-and-catch. Manning was sharp b/c every QB is sharp when they look at their primary read running wide open through all the windows...just pick a window...any window. You nailed it...even Bowman and Wilhoite were just totally worthless in this design. Talk about playing to your weaknesses. Agreed...if, even for a second, he actually thought that scheme would be effective, it took about 2 plays to realize that was NOT the right scheme against, yet another veteran QB. Eli, like Ben and Palmer before him, didn't even break a sweat.

Originally posted by lamontb:
How did he never adjust the defense to cover Vereen at the end of the game? Verren killed us. And our sub package with Tartt is kinda shaky. The Giants ran the ball well vs that package all night. And time to get Armstead way more snaps.

This one was the icing on the cake for me. At that point, they had ZERO receivers available. There was ONE weapon to contain. One. And we left him completely uncovered and didn't do a single thing to adjust AFTER he was getting chunk plays.

This game was 100% on a DC who is utterly lost...can't even recognize the most basic checkers match ups he was losing. And if you can't recognize what's going on, you certainly can't change and adjust for it. And that's exactly what happened.

Plain and simple, Mangini called a terrible game. So far, this is what I've seen this season.

Game 1: Called a good game.
Game 2: Horrible, compounded by busted coverages. So coaching and players had their part.
Game 3: See Game 2.
Game 4: Called a great game.
Game 5: Look OK to start, didn't adjust, ultimately turning out to be a horribly called game in the end.

Not sure what's wrong with the defense... A few things I've noticed. The tackling isn't as crisp as other years. Our guys are getting juked. Missed tackle. Coverage too lax, especially underneath. Run defense isn't as stout, but still OK. Mistakes in the secondary, but that's to be expected. There's no one area that has major concern, but all has consistency/mistakes on occasions during the game.

The secondary doesn't look fast and crisp at all. I don't know if they lack speed and quickness or just trying to learn a system that might be a bit different. Would be interested in seeing he guys breaking down the D for this week

I think Mangini depended on Lynch too much on that last drive. Lynch was getting pressure and close to sacking Manning several times, but he could have called a blitz somewhere there just to f**k up Manning a little more. Manning was getting more and more confident as he moved down to the redzone.

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Not sure what's wrong with the defense... A few things I've noticed. The tackling isn't as crisp as other years. Our guys are getting juked. Missed tackle. Coverage too lax, especially underneath. Run defense isn't as stout, but still OK. Mistakes in the secondary, but that's to be expected. There's no one area that has major concern, but all has consistency/mistakes on occasions during the game.

The secondary doesn't look fast and crisp at all. I don't know if they lack speed and quickness or just trying to learn a system that might be a bit different. Would be interested in seeing he guys breaking down the D for this week

I think Mangini depended on Lynch too much on that last drive. Lynch was getting pressure and close to sacking Manning several times, but he could have called a blitz somewhere there just to f**k up Manning a little more. Manning was getting more and more confident as he moved down to the redzone.

The tackling isn't good because our players are running around everywhere spending more time disguising and trying to get back to the point where they are out of position to make solid tackles.

Secondary doesn't look fast because they are trying to figure out how to apply the technique to Mangini's defense.

DLine was getting pressure but Eli was getting the ball out quick. The only problem is that our stupid coverage schemes are stupid.

And that was intentional grounding!

qnn, good point on the fundamentals. I've seen other teams, eg, the Browns, attempt arm tackles on good RBs, but never us. Yet to start the game last nite, Wilhoite tried an arm tackle around the shoulder pads, and two plays later someone else did the same thing. Don't know how JT coaches, but a refresher course in how to tackle wouldn't be a bad idea for the guys who looked like girls out there.

Soft zone= giving up, as in playing not to lose, and we all know where that ends up.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Not sure what's wrong with the defense... A few things I've noticed. The tackling isn't as crisp as other years. Our guys are getting juked. Missed tackle. Coverage too lax, especially underneath. Run defense isn't as stout, but still OK. Mistakes in the secondary, but that's to be expected. There's no one area that has major concern, but all has consistency/mistakes on occasions during the game.

The secondary doesn't look fast and crisp at all. I don't know if they lack speed and quickness or just trying to learn a system that might be a bit different. Would be interested in seeing he guys breaking down the D for this week

I think Mangini depended on Lynch too much on that last drive. Lynch was getting pressure and close to sacking Manning several times, but he could have called a blitz somewhere there just to f**k up Manning a little more. Manning was getting more and more confident as he moved down to the redzone.

The tackling isn't good because our players are running around everywhere spending more time disguising and trying to get back to the point where they are out of position to make solid tackles.

Secondary doesn't look fast because they are trying to figure out how to apply the technique to Mangini's defense.

DLine was getting pressure but Eli was getting the ball out quick. The only problem is that our stupid coverage schemes are stupid.

And that was intentional grounding!

lol yes, yes it was

I couldn't complain about the calls last night because it swung both ways. I thought the PI they gave us was BS.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by lamontb:
How did he never adjust the defense to cover Vereen at the end of the game? Verren killed us. And our sub package with Tartt is kinda shaky. The Giants ran the ball well vs that package all night. And time to get Armstead way more snaps.

This one was the icing on the cake for me. At that point, they had ZERO receivers available. There was ONE weapon to contain. One. And we left him completely uncovered and didn't do a single thing to adjust AFTER he was getting chunk plays.

This game was 100% on a DC who is utterly lost...can't even recognize the most basic checkers match ups he was losing. And if you can't recognize what's going on, you certainly can't change and adjust for it. And that's exactly what happened.

It's like ok you just can't keep letting Bowman and Whilhoite drop back 15 yards in a zone just giving Vereen an easy 8 yards a catch. That was the perfect time to man up bring some heat and force Vereen to block somebody. And if he goes out on a route instead of blocking then maybe a free rusher hits Eli. And maybe Eli gets the ball off and makes a big play but at that point you gotta try something. I think they manned up press coverage one time on that final drive and got pressure up the middle and Eli threw a bad pass. They need to blitz the a gaps more to force Manning to move to his left or right and right into Lynch who kept getting pressure from the outside. This is reminding me of when Rob Ryan took over the Saints defense. Where he just made s**t so complicated that all the players were just lost. It's one thing when you can't get any consistency form young players but these schemes seem to be varying drastically from week to week. I'm all good for schememing for each opponent but at some point you have to find what your defense can do well and hang your hat on that.

Originally posted by lamontb:
How did he never adjust the defense to cover Vereen at the end of the game? Verren killed us. And our sub package with Tartt is kinda shaky. The Giants ran the ball well vs that package all night. And time to get Armstead way more snaps.

Where was Armstead? I see he played 24 snaps but doesn't show up on the box score at all. I don't even remember seeing him on the field. Lynch got good pressure but he was the only one.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Not sure what's wrong with the defense... A few things I've noticed. The tackling isn't as crisp as other years. Our guys are getting juked. Missed tackle. Coverage too lax, especially underneath. Run defense isn't as stout, but still OK. Mistakes in the secondary, but that's to be expected. There's no one area that has major concern, but all has consistency/mistakes on occasions during the game.

The secondary doesn't look fast and crisp at all. I don't know if they lack speed and quickness or just trying to learn a system that might be a bit different. Would be interested in seeing he guys breaking down the D for this week

I think Mangini depended on Lynch too much on that last drive. Lynch was getting pressure and close to sacking Manning several times, but he could have called a blitz somewhere there just to f**k up Manning a little more. Manning was getting more and more confident as he moved down to the redzone.

The tackling isn't good because our players are running around everywhere spending more time disguising and trying to get back to the point where they are out of position to make solid tackles.

Secondary doesn't look fast because they are trying to figure out how to apply the technique to Mangini's defense.

DLine was getting pressure but Eli was getting the ball out quick. The only problem is that our stupid coverage schemes are stupid.

And that was intentional grounding!

I disagree that tackling hasn't been good before this game, but the young players are making mistakes on angles of pursuit and losing contain. Acker totally gave up the outside on the short TD on the left side. Once he ran full speed to help cover the middle there was no one to cut off the outside.

They missed many tackles inside last night that they had been making. Were they subbing less last night on the DL? Tank made one tackle but other than that all DL stats were by the starting three. Would Armstead been able to push the pocket? With Lynch coming around the end it might have helped.

I thought the DBs looked better last week but were OK last night overall--the last drive as well. Many of the yards came on short passes or runs. It was the scheme not the players letting down the team.

The niners are playing afraid so far this year--playing not to lose or make a mistake. They can't get aggressive because they don't have confidence in their knowledge of the schemes. This will change (as it has been at times) as the year goes along. Sadly, it won't help them reach the playoffs this year. CK finally became more aggressive and it looked good. Now the DBs need to follow suit and the DL needs to be shaken up or rotations should return. I'd like to see Purcell and Armstead together late in games to get after QBs.

Originally posted by lamontb:
It's like ok you just can't keep letting Bowman and Whilhoite drop back 15 yards in a zone just giving Vereen an easy 8 yards a catch. That was the perfect time to man up bring some heat and force Vereen to block somebody. And if he goes out on a route instead of blocking then maybe a free rusher hits Eli. And maybe Eli gets the ball off and makes a big play but at that point you gotta try something. I think they manned up press coverage one time on that final drive and got pressure up the middle and Eli threw a bad pass. They need to blitz the a gaps more to force Manning to move to his left or right and right into Lynch who kept getting pressure from the outside. This is reminding me of when Rob Ryan took over the Saints defense. Where he just made s**t so complicated that all the players were just lost. It's one thing when you can't get any consistency form young players but these schemes seem to be varying drastically from week to week. I'm all good for schememing for each opponent but at some point you have to find what your defense can do well and hang your hat on that.

This was the key to the losing drive.

Originally posted by nj9er:

Originally posted by lamontb:
How did he never adjust the defense to cover Vereen at the end of the game? Verren killed us. And our sub package with Tartt is kinda shaky. The Giants ran the ball well vs that package all night. And time to get Armstead way more snaps.

Where was Armstead? I see he played 24 snaps but doesn't show up on the box score at all. I don't even remember seeing him on the field. Lynch got good pressure but he was the only one.

Yea I don't recall hearing his name called at all but get TJE off the field and let the young guy get some snaps. Really how many times did you hear Dial or Dorsey's name mentioned as well? We need some better players on the d line. I'm really for starting AA over Dial or Dorsey at this point. Not one mention of AA or Dial in this article from Barrows. Overall this is a pretty bad indication of our pass rushing talent.

* Corey Lemonier started at outside linebacker in place of bereaving Ahmad Brooks. However, rookie Eli Harold ended up playing more snaps than Lemonier -- 33 to 29. In fact, Tony Jerod-Eddie had more total snaps than Lemonier, 31, with a number of them coming at outside linebacker instead of his usual defensive tackle/end spot. Of that group, Jerod-Eddie is the only one who ended up on the stat sheet. He had one quarterback hit. None of the three players was credited with a tackle.

* The 49ers did not record a sack against Eli Manning. However, they did get seven quarterback hits. Aaron Lynch was credited with five while Jerod-Eddie and Glenn Dorsey had one each.

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/sports/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/article38802417.html#storylink=cpy