Eric Mangini Thread

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Great stuff NC and Thl--are you both more patient with Mangini now?

Bowman will be such an asset as a blitzer but agree they need an OLB to take some of the pressure. I'm wondering if Hodges and Harold might become the keys to the defense next year. Harold is extremely quick and Hodges looks much more athletic than Wilhoite.

Edit: just read that Acker is one of the top CBs in many aspect this year!

I suppose, but I still prefer Fangio's defensive coverages on the backend. As far as creativity with pressure packages, Mangini has Fangio beat by a mile. Different ways to skin a cat, I guess. Mangini wants to force the issue and get the QB to throw the ball before he wants to. Fangio wants the QB to hold onto the ball longer than he wants to and wait for the front 4 to get home.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Great stuff NC and Thl--are you both more patient with Mangini now?

Bowman will be such an asset as a blitzer but agree they need an OLB to take some of the pressure. I'm wondering if Hodges and Harold might become the keys to the defense next year. Harold is extremely quick and Hodges looks much more athletic than Wilhoite.

Edit: just read that Acker is one of the top CBs in many aspect this year!

I suppose, but I still prefer Fangio's defensive coverages on the backend. As far as creativity with pressure packages, Mangini has Fangio beat by a mile. Different ways to skin a cat, I guess. Mangini wants to force the issue and get the QB to throw the ball before he wants to. Fangio wants the QB to hold onto the ball longer than he wants to and wait for the front 4 to get home.

Fang was better at stopping the run, and making teams one dimensional. It seemed like the OLBs set hard edges, and the three down linemen logged the middle. Manginess seems to change who has edge responsibility, and often times letting a down linemen do it. This spreads us thin and puts pressure on the backers and safeties to make takes in the run game.

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Fang was better at stopping the run, and making teams one dimensional. It seemed like the OLBs set hard edges, and the three down linemen logged the middle. Manginess seems to change who has edge responsibility, and often times letting a down linemen do it. This spreads us thin and puts pressure on the backers and safeties to make takes in the run game.

I think stopping the run was more of a personal issue as we hadn't given up a 100 yard rushers in 36 games dating back to 2009 when Greg Manusky was the coordinator.

Originally posted by thl408:
I suppose, but I still prefer Fangio's defensive coverages on the backend. As far as creativity with pressure packages, Mangini has Fangio beat by a mile. Different ways to skin a cat, I guess. Mangini wants to force the issue and get the QB to throw the ball before he wants to. Fangio wants the QB to hold onto the ball longer than he wants to and wait for the front 4 to get home.

I liked Fangio but often found his lack of agressiveness difficult to enjoy. It also seemed like the D gave away a few game by playing a soft D when they had a lead. But you can't argue with his success.

Having Willis, J Smith and Aldon would make Mangini's defense so much more effective...hard to envision where they'd be but they certainly wouldn't have given up those 450 yard games!

took them all year but they finally get what they're supposed to do.. im encouraged.

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
took them all year but they finally get what they're supposed to do.. im encouraged.

This could be a very good sign...Tomsula had the patience to allow Mangini to train his defenders. That would speak well of Baalke and Tomsula...it couldn't have been easy!

You get a consistent edge rush opposite Lynch and this defense will be lights out. You can see glimpses now. The pass rush is killing them. They have speedy DB's, so once the pass rush is fixed the turnovers come. They could get really good really fast this offseason, if Trent B. is on his game.

Mangini is about due for a brain fart game. Hope that doesn't happen.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
took them all year but they finally get what they're supposed to do.. im encouraged.

This could be a very good sign...Tomsula had the patience to allow Mangini to train his defenders. That would speak well of Baalke and Tomsula...it couldn't have been easy!

True, I could see what he was trying to do in spurts as you can see in this thread but some things he needed to eliminate and he has. Linebackers with deep 3rd responsibility just HAD to go completely. They are not that. Everything else was pretty darn good. For whatever reason it's clicking and I like that. Just have to show up and do their own jobs and now that everyone knows what that is, they can actually make plays and not be tentative.

Originally posted by JayT:
You get a consistent edge rush opposite Lynch and this defense will be lights out. You can see glimpses now. The pass rush is killing them. They have speedy DB's, so once the pass rush is fixed the turnovers come. They could get really good really fast this offseason, if Trent B. is on his game.

They will be really good we're just a pass rush away. That's sincerely all we're missing. If Aldon were hear we would probably have about 2 or 3 more wins earlier in the tough stretch of the season just off of drive killing sacks by him or lynch and turnovers caused by pressure. Everything has to be there in order to truly dictate what you want the offense to do. Most of these plays are designed with pressure in mind. They mentioned earlier that the pressure limits what the qb can do and they know what he can. We've seen it work in some cases where they bait the qb into the checkdown and things like that. The problem is that we need to bring a blitz in order to get the desired effect
If AA and Lynch and someone on the other side stepped up to successfully push the pocked up the middle and collapse it on its side with just the 4 man pressure offenses would simply not want to play us considering all of the ball hawks sans brock (who literally cost us a game against the giants with his int drop) we have back there.

Meh...still sucks.

Pass D has gotten better. Run D has gotten worse. Luckily the Bears forgot they had Forte. Still would not trust this D to lockdown a good offense in a game that matters.

Originally posted by Antix:

Meh...still sucks.

Pass D has gotten better. Run D has gotten worse. Luckily the Bears forgot they had Forte. Still would not trust this D to lockdown a good offense in a game that matters.

He is doing the best he can. Isn't his fault that we have no pass-rush.

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
took them all year but they finally get what they're supposed to do.. im encouraged.

This could be a very good sign...Tomsula had the patience to allow Mangini to train his defenders. That would speak well of Baalke and Tomsula...it couldn't have been easy!

True, I could see what he was trying to do in spurts as you can see in this thread but some things he needed to eliminate and he has. Linebackers with deep 3rd responsibility just HAD to go completely. They are not that. Everything else was pretty darn good. For whatever reason it's clicking and I like that. Just have to show up and do their own jobs and now that everyone knows what that is, they can actually make plays and not be tentative.

Originally posted by JayT:
You get a consistent edge rush opposite Lynch and this defense will be lights out. You can see glimpses now. The pass rush is killing them. They have speedy DB's, so once the pass rush is fixed the turnovers come. They could get really good really fast this offseason, if Trent B. is on his game.

They will be really good we're just a pass rush away. That's sincerely all we're missing. If Aldon were hear we would probably have about 2 or 3 more wins earlier in the tough stretch of the season just off of drive killing sacks by him or lynch and turnovers caused by pressure. Everything has to be there in order to truly dictate what you want the offense to do. Most of these plays are designed with pressure in mind. They mentioned earlier that the pressure limits what the qb can do and they know what he can. We've seen it work in some cases where they bait the qb into the checkdown and things like that. The problem is that we need to bring a blitz in order to get the desired effect
If AA and Lynch and someone on the other side stepped up to successfully push the pocked up the middle and collapse it on its side with just the 4 man pressure offenses would simply not want to play us considering all of the ball hawks sans brock (who literally cost us a game against the giants with his int drop) we have back there.

Bowman has said the ILBs covering deep were broken assignments. Weren't suppose to happen!

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by NCommand:
After you talked me off the GG Bridge a while back, I took a big step back. Made me reassess the anti-Fangio scheme, get over Fangio and look into the personnel closer...what we have, what we're missing.

I like how we have personnel to play jam (Cromartie and Johnson) and off (Acker and Brock) in the secondary.

Keeping an open mind. Thanks bud.

Always appreciate your possitive nature...just trying to keep you heading in the right direction! LOL.

I know it's too early to crown Mangini with Fangio's crown but what I've read and recall about the guy is that he is an encyclopedia of defense, but not a HC type thinker. So I hoped/hope he can be the mad genius to elevate even beyond Fangio's D.

Agree totally about the DBs versatility! Love the fact that Acker and Reaser are young guys who can cover quicker guys...along with Ward. I imagine people might appreciate Ward more after his performance!

A long way to go though. They allowed 450+ yards in three of their first five games. Since then they have tightened it up. Boy do they need more pressure. Love Lynch but Aldon's combination of bull rush and closing speed was special. Now they have Lynch with bull power and Harold with closing speed.

Thanks man!

Yeah, still unsure on Mangini's claim to personnel matchups (why go big with Johnson and Cromartie and stuff one of the best passing teams in the game in ATL and then quickly go back to Acker and Brock. I guess it worked but it's interesting to diagnose.

Supp guys, I was out of the country late November.. we had Cromartie playing well for us b4 I left, did he get injured??

and has that lanky Johnson gotten his chances yet???

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
took them all year but they finally get what they're supposed to do.. im encouraged.

This could be a very good sign...Tomsula had the patience to allow Mangini to train his defenders. That would speak well of Baalke and Tomsula...it couldn't have been easy!

True, I could see what he was trying to do in spurts as you can see in this thread but some things he needed to eliminate and he has. Linebackers with deep 3rd responsibility just HAD to go completely. They are not that. Everything else was pretty darn good. For whatever reason it's clicking and I like that. Just have to show up and do their own jobs and now that everyone knows what that is, they can actually make plays and not be tentative.

Originally posted by JayT:
You get a consistent edge rush opposite Lynch and this defense will be lights out. You can see glimpses now. The pass rush is killing them. They have speedy DB's, so once the pass rush is fixed the turnovers come. They could get really good really fast this offseason, if Trent B. is on his game.

They will be really good we're just a pass rush away. That's sincerely all we're missing. If Aldon were hear we would probably have about 2 or 3 more wins earlier in the tough stretch of the season just off of drive killing sacks by him or lynch and turnovers caused by pressure. Everything has to be there in order to truly dictate what you want the offense to do. Most of these plays are designed with pressure in mind. They mentioned earlier that the pressure limits what the qb can do and they know what he can. We've seen it work in some cases where they bait the qb into the checkdown and things like that. The problem is that we need to bring a blitz in order to get the desired effect
If AA and Lynch and someone on the other side stepped up to successfully push the pocked up the middle and collapse it on its side with just the 4 man pressure offenses would simply not want to play us considering all of the ball hawks sans brock (who literally cost us a game against the giants with his int drop) we have back there.

Bowman has said the ILBs covering deep were broken assignments. Weren't suppose to happen!

Good. That's been the downspot of the defense the entire season aside from when the run floodgates opened a few times
but i can count 2 wins earlier in the gauntlet of the season if we just simple fix that mistake.