Eric Mangini Thread

Originally posted by Frisco69ers:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by communist:
what NT issue? If healthy, Dorsey and Williams do their job.

If is the key word there.

plus Dial. We are set at NT

A possible concern is that with RayMac and Justin (possibly) off the team, how well can the 49ers get away with having an undersized NT?. I stated above that it doesn't matter how heavy a NT is as long as he gets the job done. But the question was raised that how much of the 49ers getting by with undersized NTs had to do with having beasts in RayMac and Justin flanking them?

It's about run defense. With no RayMac, no Justin, possibly also no ABrooks, how well can Dial (as a DE), Tank, and Lynch fill in for the three that may not be on the team next season? I think these are legitimate concerns that are crucial to how well Mangini's defense does.

I can see a DE rotation of Tank, Dial, and even Dorsey, with a NT rotation of Ian/TJE. Add in a rookie/FA DE acquisition as well. To me, Dial/Tank are unknowns as starters and as of now, I consider it a considerable dropoff from RayMac/Justin. RayMac came on strong towards the end of last season.

Yes the 49ers are mostly in their nickel subpackage, but if they are getting run on for 4-5 yards on 1st down, then the base 3-4 may see more snaps. The reason a defense gets to go the nickel package is because they are able to first and foremost, stop the run in their base personnel. Thus forcing the offense to pass the ball on 2nd/3rd down using 3WR sets.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by thl408:
I think the 49ers have had success stopping the run with Dorsey in 2013 and Ian Williams in 2014, both considered undersized NTs right at 300. Ian Williams was having an excellent season before he went down in the @NO game. Once Ian went down, Mark Ingram started to torch the front 7 for big runs. From that point, it was a revolving door at NT (TJE, Dial, Purcell).

Both Dorsey and Williams have done very well indeed.

They played well but get banged up. A larger body can often withstand the constant pounding because they anchor more easily...if they keep low. If J Smith retires they may shake up the line by moving Dorsey wide and using Williams and a rookie at NT. There are a couple of FA NTs that may be helpful. Losing J Smith and McDonald's contracts will give the team some money to go after a FA.

Let's not forget that Tomsula is still the HC and he may over rule Mangini regarding the DL.

Ian/TJE.

No, this won't work. ian hasn't lasted a season and our run d got violated when we used fill-ins at NT.

Dorsey must stay/split time with Ian. DE needs met through FA/Draft.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Frisco69ers:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by communist:
what NT issue? If healthy, Dorsey and Williams do their job.

If is the key word there.

plus Dial. We are set at NT

A possible concern is that with RayMac and Justin (possibly) off the team, how well can the 49ers get away with having an undersized NT?. I stated above that it doesn't matter how heavy a NT is as long as he gets the job done. But the question was raised that how much of the 49ers getting by with undersized NTs had to do with having beasts in RayMac and Justin flanking them?

It's about run defense. With no RayMac, no Justin, possibly also no ABrooks, how well can Dial (as a DE), Tank, and Lynch fill in for the three that may not be on the team next season? I think these are legitimate concerns that are crucial to how well Mangini's defense does.

I can see a DE rotation of Tank, Dial, and even Dorsey, with a NT rotation of Ian/TJE. Add in a rookie/FA DE acquisition as well. To me, Dial/Tank are unknowns as starters and as of now, I consider it a considerable dropoff from RayMac/Justin. RayMac came on strong towards the end of last season.

Yes the 49ers are mostly in their nickel subpackage, but if they are getting run on for 4-5 yards on 1st down, then the base 3-4 may see more snaps. The reason a defense gets to go the nickel package is because they are able to first and foremost, stop the run in their base personnel. Thus forcing the offense to pass the ball on 2nd/3rd down using 3WR sets.

well I would think they would want TJE back for depth. I bet you we draft someone for depth early in the draft.

3-4 DE: Tank, Dial, TJE

NT: Williams/Dorsey

OLB/Passrushers: Aldon, Lynch, Skuta, Lemonier,

and Brooks? (He's not gone yet)

Lets move Ian and Dorsey to DE and find a NT with some real size, 320-335 range. That D-Line would keep blockers off of our LBs so they could go and make plays, plus those 3 linemen could crash the pocket.

Getting who to play where is going to be a major issue for mangini. Getting it right is of utmost importance. I also agree we end up getting a DL high in the draft/

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:
Lets move Ian and Dorsey to DE and find a NT with some real size, 320-335 range. That D-Line would keep blockers off of our LBs so they could go and make plays, plus those 3 linemen could crash the pocket.

it's quiet possible we might add a bulldozer at NT ...fangio preferred quicker lineman who were strong enough to handle the point of attack, but versatile enough to play all 3 spots on the defensive line....so it's possible we may find a mammoth lineman in the mold of Ted Washington or Vince Wilfork

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Or Danny Shelton.

Originally posted by NeeJ49er:

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:
Lets move Ian and Dorsey to DE and find a NT with some real size, 320-335 range. That D-Line would keep blockers off of our LBs so they could go and make plays, plus those 3 linemen could crash the pocket.

it's quiet possible we might add a bulldozer at NT ...fangio preferred quicker lineman who were strong enough to handle the point of attack, but versatile enough to play all 3 spots on the defensive line....so it's possible we may find a mammoth lineman in the mold of Ted Washington or Vince Wilfork

I've always thought that we were missing a true 3-4 NT. Willis and Bow would benefit from so much from having someone that could actually eat up 2 O-linemen every play.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Getting who to play where is going to be a major issue for mangini. Getting it right is of utmost importance. I also agree we end up getting a DL high in the draft/

I think there's enough good WR's in the draft making it possible for us to grab one in the 3rd round. Championship teams are built up front and that's were we need to focus our 1st and 2nd round pick, be it, O-line or D-line.

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:
Lets move Ian and Dorsey to DE and find a NT with some real size, 320-335 range. That D-Line would keep blockers off of our LBs so they could go and make plays, plus those 3 linemen could crash the pocket.

that could be an option as well...

why fix what aint broke ?

NT played the least snaps under Fangio for a good reason - teams love to pass in the league, and on passing downs you are not going to keep the NT in.

both Ian and Glenn played VERY well for us at NT. there is little telling how the hell can they play at 3-4 DE spot, which is actually a very complicated and important position for 3-4 (for which we groomed Dial and Tank)

I obviously think DT is a big need with Cowboy and McDonald gone, but really...if we stick with 3-4, we are set at NT

Originally posted by 9moon:
If Justin retires, I think it's time for us to move Dorsey to his most beloved position ... DT, and let him be the player he was projected to be (Warren Sapp)...

.. while we can also draft the kid from Kentucky... Melvin Lewis... I saw 4 games of Kentucky and I thought he was the GLUE of their from 7...

If Justin retires our run defense suffers. He means more to the run game than anyone else on the line.

Terrance Cody just got released by the Ravens, I think he would be a terrific NT in our defense.
6'4 345lbs, that could be the guy we plug up the middle lanes with.


Edit: Just saw he was released for animal cruelty, nvm

Originally posted by thl408:
A possible concern is that with RayMac and Justin (possibly) off the team, how well can the 49ers get away with having an undersized NT?. I stated above that it doesn't matter how heavy a NT is as long as he gets the job done. But the question was raised that how much of the 49ers getting by with undersized NTs had to do with having beasts in RayMac and Justin flanking them?

It's about run defense. With no RayMac, no Justin, possibly also no ABrooks, how well can Dial (as a DE), Tank, and Lynch fill in for the three that may not be on the team next season? I think these are legitimate concerns that are crucial to how well Mangini's defense does.

I can see a DE rotation of Tank, Dial, and even Dorsey, with a NT rotation of Ian/TJE. Add in a rookie/FA DE acquisition as well. To me, Dial/Tank are unknowns as starters and as of now, I consider it a considerable dropoff from RayMac/Justin. RayMac came on strong towards the end of last season.

Yes the 49ers are mostly in their nickel subpackage, but if they are getting run on for 4-5 yards on 1st down, then the base 3-4 may see more snaps. The reason a defense gets to go the nickel package is because they are able to first and foremost, stop the run in their base personnel. Thus forcing the offense to pass the ball on 2nd/3rd down using 3WR sets.

You brought up all the great points here esp. the amount of time we're in nickle. Why? B/c our one weakness of defense was the inability to stuff the run against power running teams consistently.

In 2015, right out of the gate, we have some options:
RDE: (Justin Smith); Tank Carradine, Kaleb Ramsey & Lawrence Okoye
NT: Glenn Dorsey; Ian Williams, Mike Purcell & Garrison Smith
LDE: Quinton Dial; Tony Jerrod-Eddie

I've been waiting all year for our NT's to be healthy so that Dial can resume his most ideal position and that is at LDE. I think he's going to be even better than RayMac. I think Tank is also very much ready for RDE as well. We've got a couple big bull-rushers at RDE as well...don't laugh...but watch Ramsey and Okoye very closely this pre season. The team is very much invested in both guys. Naturally, health is the key for Dorsey and Williams who can not only lock down NT but play at DE as needed too. TJE is a quality backup. The team has Dial who can play NT and we've been developing Purcell as well. I do expect a blue-chip FA or draft pick here though to ensure we stay healthy and competitive here b/c like, thl noted, we go as the front 3 goes. To me Smith's play has dropped off a lot for his standards and I think he knows this. I do think he will retire but if he doesn't, I do expect to see 1/2 the snaps as last year. So we shall see!

Note: Also, Mangini is the from Parcells school of thought. We've been running 1-gap NT's since forever. I would expect, for the first time ever, a NT in the mold of Wilfork going forward (maybe not at his skill level but a 2-gapper for sure).