Eric Mangini Thread

When guys like Carrol and Belichick didn't work out on their first HC gigs they got another chance and excelled. Lets hope Mangini can do likewise.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by jimmythegreekjr:
That makes sense. Mangini could have been hired while we were waiting.

Its hard to get excited about the hire, but I can't really get all that down on it since he does have a pretty strong defensive background and if you look at his background and how Belichick pretty much treated him like a son of sorts, there's certainly the potential for him to do well. His biggest issue IMO was his maturity, he was hired as a head coach at a very young age and when he failed at that, he was immediately rehired by another shoddy, downtrodden franchise which I think is the worst possible thing that could have happened.


Now that he's been out in the wilderness so to speak, maybe something has clicked upstairs, I guess that's all we can hope for really but if the guy was causing massive problems behind the scenes, I really doubt Tomsula would have wanted to retain him.

TBH, I got the feeling fromm day 1 and Fangio's comments, IIRC, aligned more with the idea Mangini was hired to provide additional insight for Fangio...then Roman...and then kept on staff with the only opening we had (TE). My personal feeling is that Baalke loved his defensive mind and has kept him on staff this entire time just for this role...DC. Looking at how Baalke works, this is his kind of move and I wasn't surprised by it at all. I hated to lose the proven coaches we had for an "unknown" but perhaps, within the FO, that "unknown" to us was actually a "known." We have a tendency to develop a farm system internally with players...from the PS to starters, over two years, the ACL club, etc. Perhaps Baalke was taking that same approach with his coaching staff as well.

This.

The coaching staff hires have Baalke's signature all over them. He's looking for hidden gems. Smart guys with a ton of experience who have been overlooked by the rest of the league.

From assistant position coach to OC/DC, one could argue that he's building the most experienced coaching staff in the league. Nearly everyone will be able to contribute to the game planning in a major way.

So in a way the Tomsula hire makes perfect sense. We need a guy who's willing to accept the input of all the guys under him without his own ego getting in the way and who has enough experience that he can earn the respect of those same guys. I just don't see how Adam Gase would have worked with this coaching staff at all.

Originally posted by All22:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by jimmythegreekjr:
That makes sense. Mangini could have been hired while we were waiting.

Its hard to get excited about the hire, but I can't really get all that down on it since he does have a pretty strong defensive background and if you look at his background and how Belichick pretty much treated him like a son of sorts, there's certainly the potential for him to do well. His biggest issue IMO was his maturity, he was hired as a head coach at a very young age and when he failed at that, he was immediately rehired by another shoddy, downtrodden franchise which I think is the worst possible thing that could have happened.


Now that he's been out in the wilderness so to speak, maybe something has clicked upstairs, I guess that's all we can hope for really but if the guy was causing massive problems behind the scenes, I really doubt Tomsula would have wanted to retain him.

TBH, I got the feeling fromm day 1 and Fangio's comments, IIRC, aligned more with the idea Mangini was hired to provide additional insight for Fangio...then Roman...and then kept on staff with the only opening we had (TE). My personal feeling is that Baalke loved his defensive mind and has kept him on staff this entire time just for this role...DC. Looking at how Baalke works, this is his kind of move and I wasn't surprised by it at all. I hated to lose the proven coaches we had for an "unknown" but perhaps, within the FO, that "unknown" to us was actually a "known." We have a tendency to develop a farm system internally with players...from the PS to starters, over two years, the ACL club, etc. Perhaps Baalke was taking that same approach with his coaching staff as well.

This.

The coaching staff hires have Baalke's signature all over them. He's looking for hidden gems. Smart guys with a ton of experience who have been overlooked by the rest of the league.

From assistant position coach to OC/DC, one could argue that he's building the most experienced coaching staff in the league. Nearly everyone will be able to contribute to the game planning in a major way.

So in a way the Tomsula hire makes perfect sense. We need a guy who's willing to accept the input of all the guys under him without his own ego getting in the way and who has enough experience that he can earn the respect of those same guys. I just don't see how Adam Gase would have worked with this coaching staff at all.

Another thing you'll see as a pattern is, like you noted, the experience as either a coordinator and/or HC and major leadership roles...but, that this is a staff that probably isn't going anywhere b/c they've already climbed over that hill. We may not be poached as much going forward and we could end up with some strong continuity going forward. The next thing I see is that they are adding more position coaches (i.e. ILB coach). This too is building a farm system. They are also developing a level-system where coaches like Tomsula, Mangini and Geep CAN move up the corporate ladder over time-served. It's identical to our personnel.

Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
When guys like Carrol and Belichick didn't work out on their first HC gigs they got another chance and excelled. Lets hope Mangini can do likewise.

He already got another chance after being fired from the Jets, and got hired as the Cleveland HC & proceeded to piss everyone off on the team and got fired again. Then he got a chance here to be a lowly TE coach and he managed to screw up that too because it was the worst performing position on this offense. That's 3 strikes and he's OUT!

Originally posted by All22:
This.

The coaching staff hires have Baalke's signature all over them. He's looking for hidden gems. Smart guys with a ton of experience who have been overlooked by the rest of the league.

From assistant position coach to OC/DC, one could argue that he's building the most experienced coaching staff in the league. Nearly everyone will be able to contribute to the game planning in a major way.

So in a way the Tomsula hire makes perfect sense. We need a guy who's willing to accept the input of all the guys under him without his own ego getting in the way and who has enough experience that he can earn the respect of those same guys. I just don't see how Adam Gase would have worked with this coaching staff at all.

This isn't some feel good hippie commune, it's the NFL. Name one succesful Super Bowl winning coach that has worked that way? Well,...I'm waiting!

Originally posted by REB4:

Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
When guys like Carrol and Belichick didn't work out on their first HC gigs they got another chance and excelled. Lets hope Mangini can do likewise.

He already got another chance after being fired from the Jets, and got hired as the Cleveland HC & proceeded to piss everyone off on the team and got fired again. Then he got a chance here to be a lowly TE coach and he managed to screw up that too because it was the worst performing position on this offense. That's 3 strikes and he's OUT!

you need time between those jobs. he lost 1 got another and didn't have a chance to learn his lesson. a lot is riding on our success
if he messes this talent up he's finished

Originally posted by REB4:
He already got another chance after being fired from the Jets, and got hired as the Cleveland HC & proceeded to piss everyone off on the team and got fired again. Then he got a chance here to be a lowly TE coach and he managed to screw up that too because it was the worst performing position on this offense. That's 3 strikes and he's OUT!

Some guys are better coordinators than coaches. Mangini doesn't have the best track record as a coordinator either but he's never had this much talent. You are getting someone who's extremely experienced. Talent wins in the NFL so I don't see a big drop off defensively.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by REB4:
He already got another chance after being fired from the Jets, and got hired as the Cleveland HC & proceeded to piss everyone off on the team and got fired again. Then he got a chance here to be a lowly TE coach and he managed to screw up that too because it was the worst performing position on this offense. That's 3 strikes and he's OUT!

Some guys are better coordinators than coaches. Mangini doesn't have the best track record as a coordinator either but he's never had this much talent. You are getting someone who's extremely experienced. Talent wins in the NFL so I don't see a big drop off defensively.

This. Plus we may see less Bowman/Willis stuck in coverage and more of them playing down hill like Borland and certainly more blitzes.

Originally posted by REB4:

Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
When guys like Carrol and Belichick didn't work out on their first HC gigs they got another chance and excelled. Lets hope Mangini can do likewise.

He already got another chance after being fired from the Jets, and got hired as the Cleveland HC & proceeded to piss everyone off on the team and got fired again. Then he got a chance here to be a lowly TE coach and he managed to screw up that too because it was the worst performing position on this offense. That's 3 strikes and he's OUT!

true, but CLE fires a coach every other year. No one has had success there

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by REB4:
He already got another chance after being fired from the Jets, and got hired as the Cleveland HC & proceeded to piss everyone off on the team and got fired again. Then he got a chance here to be a lowly TE coach and he managed to screw up that too because it was the worst performing position on this offense. That's 3 strikes and he's OUT!

Some guys are better coordinators than coaches. Mangini doesn't have the best track record as a coordinator either but he's never had this much talent. You are getting someone who's extremely experienced. Talent wins in the NFL so I don't see a big drop off defensively.

This. Plus we may see less Bowman/Willis stuck in coverage and more of them playing down hill like Borland and certainly more blitzes.

they are incredible at blitzing. every single time i can remember them going in for a blitz it had a profound effect on the play.

So I've been reading around, trying to find articles that are dated years ago and everything I've read suggests that Mangini operates a "read and react - bend, but don't break" defense. This falls in line with the coverage concepts he learned from Belichick.

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Mangini's scheme doesn't reward an attacking style of play. It's the read-and-react, bend-but-don't-break model that he learned from his overlord in New England. It plays avoids press coverage, it stress gap integrity … not that those things can't be good things – they are – they're just not the most important.

http://baltimoresportsreport.com/should-the-ravens-hire-eric-mangini-for-defensive-coordinator-11331.html

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Eric Mangini's 3-4 was largely read and react. In most instances, opposing teams saw the same fronts. It was a matter of execution.

http://www.ganggreennation.com/2009/8/2/972694/a-difference-between-rex-ryan-and

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The two links above are more related to the front 7 play where Mangini runs a two gap 'read and react' system, as opposed to an attacking, penetrating system. I've also read a couple Jets' fans comments and they don't recall Mangini blitzing much, but they admit that it might have been Sutton (the DC) calling the plays. Point is, don't be surprised if the frequency of blitzing stays the same under Manigni as it was under Fangio, which is just sprinkling of blitzes here and there.


But, there is this (from CLE days where Rob Ryan was his DC):

(TOPIC: On if he (Mangini) agrees with the frequency of Rob Ryan's blitzes) - "Yes, Rob and I talk through all the things specific to the defensive game plan and I'm on the head sets. Some of those are max pressures, some of those are five man pressures, some of those are zone pressures. There's a variety of ways you try to pressure the quarterback. They're not all true what you would categorize as blitzes max pressure, man-to-man, no help defenses."

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/article-1/Mangini-press-conf-transcript---1021/4acdbab2-5e91-4d00-8c16-24781252057e


So a few Jets fans don't remember him blitzing much. Then he employed Rex as his DC who is creative with his blitz packages. It's been 4 years since Mangini last called a play so I guess we'll have to wait and see. If he holds true to Belichick's school of defense, I don't expect many blitzes. Might be more than Fangio, but that's not saying much.

Originally posted by thl408:

So a few Jets fans don't remember him blitzing much. Then he employed Rex as his DC who is creative with his blitz packages. It's been 4 years since Mangini last called a play so I guess we'll have to wait and see. If he holds true to Belichick's school of defense, I don't expect many blitzes. Might be more than Fangio, but that's not saying much.

I think a little more than Fangio could be about just right. I don't want a blitz-crazy D that gives up big plays on a regular basis. I'd just like more blitzing.

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by REB4:
He already got another chance after being fired from the Jets, and got hired as the Cleveland HC & proceeded to piss everyone off on the team and got fired again. Then he got a chance here to be a lowly TE coach and he managed to screw up that too because it was the worst performing position on this offense. That's 3 strikes and he's OUT!

Some guys are better coordinators than coaches. Mangini doesn't have the best track record as a coordinator either but he's never had this much talent. You are getting someone who's extremely experienced. Talent wins in the NFL so I don't see a big drop off defensively.

This. Plus we may see less Bowman/Willis stuck in coverage and more of them playing down hill like Borland and certainly more blitzes.

they are incredible at blitzing. every single time i can remember them going in for a blitz it had a profound effect on the play.

This

They are VERY fast and that speed wasn't exploited enough

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by thl408:

So a few Jets fans don't remember him blitzing much. Then he employed Rex as his DC who is creative with his blitz packages. It's been 4 years since Mangini last called a play so I guess we'll have to wait and see. If he holds true to Belichick's school of defense, I don't expect many blitzes. Might be more than Fangio, but that's not saying much.

I think a little more than Fangio could be about just right. I don't want a blitz-crazy D that gives up big plays on a regular basis. I'd just like more blitzing.

yes we need a little more and less from the inside and more from the inside. with aldon and lynch on either side and willis or bowman coming up the middle that is a quarterbacks nightmare. match that with press coverage from press corners like brock culliver johnson and even chris cook and it's a recipe for a big play or getting us off the field on 3rd downs.

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by thl408:

So a few Jets fans don't remember him blitzing much. Then he employed Rex as his DC who is creative with his blitz packages. It's been 4 years since Mangini last called a play so I guess we'll have to wait and see. If he holds true to Belichick's school of defense, I don't expect many blitzes. Might be more than Fangio, but that's not saying much.

I think a little more than Fangio could be about just right. I don't want a blitz-crazy D that gives up big plays on a regular basis. I'd just like more blitzing.

yes we need a little more and less from the inside and more from the inside. with aldon and lynch on either side and willis or bowman coming up the middle that is a quarterbacks nightmare. match that with press coverage from press corners like brock culliver johnson and even chris cook and it's a recipe for a big play or getting us off the field on 3rd downs.

When your defense has more talent than the offense and your defense can tackle VERY well, why blitz? Just play good solid defense, let the 4 guys up front rush, make immediate tackles and wait for the offense to make a mistake.