Eric Mangini Thread

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49ersOnMINE:

All D-coordinators have their style," 49ers safety Antoine Bethea said. "Coach Mangini, his thing is we're going to cause confusion. The opposing offense isn't going to know what we're going to be able to do each down. It could be bringing the pressure. It could be dropping eight into coverage. But it's just keeping the offense on their heels. However, you want to look at it, I think it's going to be a good deal for our defense.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/new-look-49ers-defense-aims-cause-confusion

And this is exactly what we anticipated! We will dictate now...not just react in off coverage 95% of the time. And it's not just in bringing more blitzes or more exotic blitzes but additional confusion in coverage schemes (i.e. off coverage schemes, jam-press at the LOS, press, mix of both on the two halfs of the field, blitzing the S, using Tartt as the robber, etc.)

My fear is in making things complicated we may be outsmarting ourselves. This philosophy leaves a lot of room for player error.

disagree. it will be easier because most of the variables will be taken away. on a play they know their responsibilities and it will be...blitz...cover...press..cushion etc it won't be any more difficult than pattern matching was imo.. and they mastered that.

I agree. I don't think it will be hard for our players to understand their assignments. It's going to be the same basic things that they've done their whole career. It's just going to be different combinations which will confuse an offense.

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49ersOnMINE:

All D-coordinators have their style," 49ers safety Antoine Bethea said. "Coach Mangini, his thing is we're going to cause confusion. The opposing offense isn't going to know what we're going to be able to do each down. It could be bringing the pressure. It could be dropping eight into coverage. But it's just keeping the offense on their heels. However, you want to look at it, I think it's going to be a good deal for our defense.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/new-look-49ers-defense-aims-cause-confusion

And this is exactly what we anticipated! We will dictate now...not just react in off coverage 95% of the time. And it's not just in bringing more blitzes or more exotic blitzes but additional confusion in coverage schemes (i.e. off coverage schemes, jam-press at the LOS, press, mix of both on the two halfs of the field, blitzing the S, using Tartt as the robber, etc.)

My fear is in making things complicated we may be outsmarting ourselves. This philosophy leaves a lot of room for player error.

disagree. it will be easier because most of the variables will be taken away. on a play they know their responsibilities and it will be...blitz...cover...press..cushion etc it won't be any more difficult than pattern matching was imo.. and they mastered that.

I agree. I don't think it will be hard for our players to understand their assignments. It's going to be the same basic things that they've done their whole career. It's just going to be different combinations which will confuse an offense.

Agreed...a trailing slot CB and pattern-matching may be the most complicated of the defensive calls. That said, the "when" and "what types" of calls will need to be closely monitored but it does sound like philosophically, there will be more of a focus on dictating offenses vs. reacting to them exclusively. This means we may be attacking weaknesses and we should have the personnel now to play just about any kind of defense we need to. If they do beat us...we'll have to see how Mangini adjusts from there. Player personnel and schemes should be a fun one to watch this pre season. We can't "hide what we do" and "save it for the season" this TC. These players will need to play fully and build chemistry as a unit and become familiar with the whole defense.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49ersOnMINE:

All D-coordinators have their style," 49ers safety Antoine Bethea said. "Coach Mangini, his thing is we're going to cause confusion. The opposing offense isn't going to know what we're going to be able to do each down. It could be bringing the pressure. It could be dropping eight into coverage. But it's just keeping the offense on their heels. However, you want to look at it, I think it's going to be a good deal for our defense.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/new-look-49ers-defense-aims-cause-confusion

And this is exactly what we anticipated! We will dictate now...not just react in off coverage 95% of the time. And it's not just in bringing more blitzes or more exotic blitzes but additional confusion in coverage schemes (i.e. off coverage schemes, jam-press at the LOS, press, mix of both on the two halfs of the field, blitzing the S, using Tartt as the robber, etc.)

My fear is in making things complicated we may be outsmarting ourselves. This philosophy leaves a lot of room for player error.

disagree. it will be easier because most of the variables will be taken away. on a play they know their responsibilities and it will be...blitz...cover...press..cushion etc it won't be any more difficult than pattern matching was imo.. and they mastered that.

I agree. I don't think it will be hard for our players to understand their assignments. It's going to be the same basic things that they've done their whole career. It's just going to be different combinations which will confuse an offense.

Agreed...a trailing slot CB and pattern-matching may be the most complicated of the defensive calls. That said, the "when" and "what types" of calls will need to be closely monitored but it does sound like philosophically, there will be more of a focus on dictating offenses vs. reacting to them exclusively. This means we may be attacking weaknesses and we should have the personnel now to play just about any kind of defense we need to. If they do beat us...we'll have to see how Mangini adjusts from there. Player personnel and schemes should be a fun one to watch this pre season. We can't "hide what we do" and "save it for the season" this TC. These players will need to play fully and build chemistry as a unit and become familiar with the whole defense.

funny thing is when you look at the whole "hide what we do" we didn't do anything noticeably different during the regular season, especially on defense lol

we played straight up.

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
funny thing is when you look at the whole "hide what we do" we didn't do anything noticeably different during the regular season, especially on defense lol

we played straight up.

We did. I always used to laugh at that one!

Complicated defense means, steep learning curve. It also means, high risk/high reward play calling. It sounds good in theory, but could totally blow up in our face. It works until other teams figure it out (see Rex Ryan and NYJ). I'm also concerned that we'll take a lot of time implementing a defense that is pretty unique to Mangini, since I dont see him here as a long term answer. We'll see.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

funny thing is when you look at the whole "hide what we do" we didn't do anything noticeably different during the regular season, especially on defense lol

we played straight up.

We did. I always used to laugh at that one!

Laugh about the whole "it's just the preseason, we'll bust out the good plays when the regular season starts" and then the season starts, and it's the same ol' BS ...lol

The type of defense we ran last year would've been great if we were scoring 30pts a game. I hated the whole "bend but don't break". I don't know how many times it would be 3rd and short, and our CBs would be 8-10yrds deep, not wanting to get beat by a deep ball, but letting the QB complete easy passes to pick up the first down.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Complicated defense means, steep learning curve. It also means, high risk/high reward play calling. It sounds good in theory, but could totally blow up in our face. It works until other teams figure it out (see Rex Ryan and NYJ). I'm also concerned that we'll take a lot of time implementing a defense that is pretty unique to Mangini, since I dont see him here as a long term answer. We'll see.

its only complicated for the offense not the defense.

multiple different plays out of the same looks is all it is. disguising things to combat offenses doing things to give 'tells' as to what they should do.

confusing offenses = interceptions and sacks

read and react = you need incredible talent to still stop people

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
funny thing is when you look at the whole "hide what we do" we didn't do anything noticeably different during the regular season, especially on defense lol

we played straight up.

We did. I always used to laugh at that one!

Laugh about the whole "it's just the preseason, we'll bust out the good plays when the regular season starts" and then the season starts, and it's the same ol' BS ...lol

yea offense was disappointing but defense was just funny because we play straight up there's really no hiding it either you can play or you can't

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:

The type of defense we ran last year would've been great if we were scoring 30pts a game. I hated the whole "bend but don't break". I don't know how many times it would be 3rd and short, and our CBs would be 8-10yrds deep, not wanting to get beat by a deep ball, but letting the QB complete easy passes to pick up the first down.

It was frustrating to watch them give up easy firsts but Fangios defenses were great at not allowing the big play. We would make teams play small ball and punish them till they coughed it up or stopped trying to catch it over the middle.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Complicated defense means, steep learning curve. It also means, high risk/high reward play calling. It sounds good in theory, but could totally blow up in our face. It works until other teams figure it out (see Rex Ryan and NYJ). I'm also concerned that we'll take a lot of time implementing a defense that is pretty unique to Mangini, since I dont see him here as a long term answer. We'll see.

We got JT as HC for starters. Secondly we have at least 2 former DCs on staff behind Mangini plus we got young guys apprenticing. We have a mix of youth and experience on the coaching staff both sides of the ball. I believe we will fare just fine once Mangini leaves

Originally posted by ModestoNiner33:

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:
The type of defense we ran last year would've been great if we were scoring 30pts a game. I hated the whole "bend but don't break". I don't know how many times it would be 3rd and short, and our CBs would be 8-10yrds deep, not wanting to get beat by a deep ball, but letting the QB complete easy passes to pick up the first down.

It was frustrating to watch them give up easy firsts but Fangios defenses were great at not allowing the big play. We would make teams play small ball and punish them till they coughed it up or stopped trying to catch it over the middle.

Yeah, I mean we can complain about it all we want and talk about things we didn't like along the margins, but there's not really any way to get around it:

Mangini is currently fixing something that wasn't broken. If we learned anything last year it was that Fangio was running a top 5 defense in which the players were almost even interchangeable (a whole new secondary, no problem. A year without Bowman and an injured Willis, no problem. A year without Aldon, Williams, Dorsey and an ineffective Brooks on top of all this other stuff, still no problem!)

It's an odd predicament to be in, because Mangini's celing for defense is basically matching what Fangio was already doing. Anything but maintenance is failure. We can't forget either that being leapfrogged by Tomsula was the only circumstance in which Fangio didn't want to stay. It means that Tomsula had to not only be better than every other HC candidate, but better than them PLUS rolling the dice at defensive coordinator.

I think having substantial doubts is very reasonable in this scenario.

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:
I think having substantial doubts is very reasonable in this scenario.

I think it's totally fair to have reservations about Mangini and staff when you leap from Fangio and staff. The remarks you heard from Logan was that we had a corvette and it just needed to be cleaned and detailed and then get the hell out of the way.

With Mangini we are hearing of a new playbook being installed, it's complicated right now (natural) and there is a bigger focus on trying to cause confusion for the QB/OC.

Luckily for him our talent has been cross-trained and diverse and deep and could probably succeed in just about any defense thrown their way.

But we'll have to see his gameplans, how he attacks weaknesses, his situational awareness, personnel usage, in-game and halftime adjustments, etc.

The good thing is that he does come from a similar off coverage school of thought as Fangio and has watched that success here over the years.

A smart DC would build off that foundation IMHO and use better personnel choices for specific matchups, more physicality at the LOS with guys like Johnson, Cook and Brock, target a weakness on the OL, utilize more creative blitzes, more substitutions, play tighter on 3rd downs, use Tartt as the robber, etc.

Does Some our players believe in this

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000494015/article/eric-mangini-aiming-to-create-confusion-with-49ers-d

An amoeba defense!! Finally!!