Eric Mangini Thread

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Great, defensive confusion! This works, until it doesn't, we have had success, and so have the Sea-f*gs, by keeping our defense simple, many also rans in the NFL still cling to the defensive confusion strategy, this can cause some big plays both ways. I am not excited about this philosophic change.


I am however pretty pumped to see that our offense ran screen as its first play in OTA's, and that the zone block is making a come back!

Go Niners, if anything this next season will be interesting!

confusion on the offensive end not ours. the calls will pretty much be the same just disguised better.

it is simple. it just looked complicated to the other team.

Fangio's defense confused QBs by trying to give the same look every down - a cover 4 shell (CBs with a cushion). Then once the ball was snapped, things moved around and changed. But before the snap, it always tried to look the same to the QB and prevent the QB from getting any kind of tip off as to what coverage he was about to face. This is why I think the "confusion" talk has to do with the front 7 play and not so much the DBs. What the DBs did under Fangio was already confusing to QBs.

Hopefully they dont confuse themselves.

Originally posted by thl408:
Fangio's defense confused QBs by trying to give the same look every down - a cover 4 shell (CBs with a cushion). Then once the ball was snapped, things moved around and changed. But before the snap, it always tried to look the same to the QB and prevent the QB from getting any kind of tip off as to what coverage he was about to face. This is why I think the "confusion" talk has to do with the front 7 play and not so much the DBs. What the DBs did under Fangio was already confusing to QBs.

exactly

strictly who is the extra pressure and if there is extra pressure on a play.

Originally posted by susweel:
Hopefully they dont confuse themselves.

agree..

too much by design at times can be just as bad if not terrible..

we went to the Denver game and showed all kinds of movement againt the Chess Master and he was so confused by our looks that he only threw for 5 if not 6 TDs..

Originally posted by susweel:
Hopefully they dont confuse themselves.

same thing im thinking. i hope it isn't the defense version of the greg roman offense

Originally posted by JustinNiner:

Originally posted by susweel:
Hopefully they dont confuse themselves.

same thing im thinking. i hope it isn't the defense version of the greg roman offense

I thought we want it to be like Roman's offense. If no TDs are scored in the red zone, that's a good thing.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by JustinNiner:

Originally posted by susweel:
Hopefully they dont confuse themselves.

same thing im thinking. i hope it isn't the defense version of the greg roman offense

I thought we want it to be like Roman's offense. If no TDs are scored in the red zone, that's a good thing.

Good thing they are sticking to the theme of the offseason. Confusing.

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Good thing they are sticking to the theme of the offseason. Confusing.

So are our fans

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Great, defensive confusion! This works, until it doesn't, we have had success, and so have the Sea-f*gs, by keeping our defense simple, many also rans in the NFL still cling to the defensive confusion strategy, this can cause some big plays both ways. I am not excited about this philosophic change.


I am however pretty pumped to see that our offense ran screen as its first play in OTA's, and that the zone block is making a come back!

Go Niners, if anything this next season will be interesting!

confusion on the offensive end not ours. the calls will pretty much be the same just disguised better.

it is simple. it just looked complicated to the other team.

This scheme, will take awhile to learn, and this style of D, can cause defensive players to make mental errors. The simple style of defense we played under Fangio relied on good scouting, and solid fundamentals. I prefer a simple defense for the simple reason that complicated schemes leave more room for mental errors on the players part. Mental errors lead to a loss of confidence, first in oneself, then in ones teammates, and ultimately in the coaching staff. KISS, keep it simple stupid, works better in my option.

Now, on offense, I do like a little more complexity, I think we will have a better year offensive than last season, but fear we will see a drop off on defense. I see us in the upper third offensive, and lower third defensively, and in the end, a mediocre, midlevel team.

hope I'm wrong, GO NINERS!

Originally posted by thl408:
Fangio's defense confused QBs by trying to give the same look every down - a cover 4 shell (CBs with a cushion). Then once the ball was snapped, things moved around and changed. But before the snap, it always tried to look the same to the QB and prevent the QB from getting any kind of tip off as to what coverage he was about to face. This is why I think the "confusion" talk has to do with the front 7 play and not so much the DBs. What the DBs did under Fangio was already confusing to QBs.

^^^

Originally posted by thl408:
The 49ers have already been causing a lot of confusion with regards to QBs reading coverage. Of all the 49er games I've watched, no team plays as many coverages as the 49ers did under Fangio. What I think Bethea is referring to with the whole "confusion" talk is about offensive line protection schemes.

One thing Fangio did not do much of is utilize the 3-4 alignment to his advantage when it came to bringing various types of blitz pressure. One of the main advantages that a 3-4 has over a 4-3 is the ability to disguise who the 4 pass rushers will be. Then, if there's a blitz, which players will be blitzing. The uncertainty causes confusion for the Oline.

The foundation for confusion on the backend (coverage) is already there from the past seasons under Fangio/Donatell. They were also already dropping 8 into coverage at times. What was not there is blitzing an ILB while dropping both OLBs into coverage, or overloaded blitzes. It's not so much about the frequency of blitzing that I'd like to see different - if a team doesn't have to blitz to generate pressure, then there's no need to be blitz happy unless the opposing Oline can't get their protection calls right. I'd like to see a wide variety of blitz/pass rush packages. Something like Bow on a pass rush while Aldon and Lynch drop back. This confuses the pass protection calls for an offense and is what I think Bethea is referring to.

^^^

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
This scheme, will take awhile to learn, and this style of D, can cause defensive players to make mental errors. The simple style of defense we played under Fangio relied on good scouting, and solid fundamentals. I prefer a simple defense for the simple reason that complicated schemes leave more room for mental errors on the players part. Mental errors lead to a loss of confidence, first in oneself, then in ones teammates, and ultimately in the coaching staff. KISS, keep it simple stupid, works better in my option.

Now, on offense, I do like a little more complexity, I think we will have a better year offensive than last season, but fear we will see a drop off on defense. I see us in the upper third offensive, and lower third defensively, and in the end, a mediocre, midlevel team.

hope I'm wrong, GO NINERS!

GC...think you may have missed thl408 describing what the "confusion" entails.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:
Fangio's defense confused QBs by trying to give the same look every down - a cover 4 shell (CBs with a cushion). Then once the ball was snapped, things moved around and changed. But before the snap, it always tried to look the same to the QB and prevent the QB from getting any kind of tip off as to what coverage he was about to face. This is why I think the "confusion" talk has to do with the front 7 play and not so much the DBs. What the DBs did under Fangio was already confusing to QBs.

^^^

Originally posted by thl408:
The 49ers have already been causing a lot of confusion with regards to QBs reading coverage. Of all the 49er games I've watched, no team plays as many coverages as the 49ers did under Fangio. What I think Bethea is referring to with the whole "confusion" talk is about offensive line protection schemes.

One thing Fangio did not do much of is utilize the 3-4 alignment to his advantage when it came to bringing various types of blitz pressure. One of the main advantages that a 3-4 has over a 4-3 is the ability to disguise who the 4 pass rushers will be. Then, if there's a blitz, which players will be blitzing. The uncertainty causes confusion for the Oline.

The foundation for confusion on the backend (coverage) is already there from the past seasons under Fangio/Donatell. They were also already dropping 8 into coverage at times. What was not there is blitzing an ILB while dropping both OLBs into coverage, or overloaded blitzes. It's not so much about the frequency of blitzing that I'd like to see different - if a team doesn't have to blitz to generate pressure, then there's no need to be blitz happy unless the opposing Oline can't get their protection calls right. I'd like to see a wide variety of blitz/pass rush packages. Something like Bow on a pass rush while Aldon and Lynch drop back. This confuses the pass protection calls for an offense and is what I think Bethea is referring to.

^^^

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
This scheme, will take awhile to learn, and this style of D, can cause defensive players to make mental errors. The simple style of defense we played under Fangio relied on good scouting, and solid fundamentals. I prefer a simple defense for the simple reason that complicated schemes leave more room for mental errors on the players part. Mental errors lead to a loss of confidence, first in oneself, then in ones teammates, and ultimately in the coaching staff. KISS, keep it simple stupid, works better in my option.

Now, on offense, I do like a little more complexity, I think we will have a better year offensive than last season, but fear we will see a drop off on defense. I see us in the upper third offensive, and lower third defensively, and in the end, a mediocre, midlevel team.

hope I'm wrong, GO NINERS!

GC...think you may have missed thl408 describing what the "confusion" entails.

No I get what kind of confusion they mean, I just feel it leads to a confused defense, as often as it fools an NFL QB! I don't like the style, so I am mocking it...a little.

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by susweel:
Hopefully they dont confuse themselves.

agree..

too much by design at times can be just as bad if not terrible..

we went to the Denver game and showed all kinds of movement againt the Chess Master and he was so confused by our looks that he only threw for 5 if not 6 TDs..

How many starters were out again against Denver? You don't put in a sophisticated D when you're team is full of replacements. How do you make a 4.5 player look like a 4.9 player? Confuse him with your play calling.

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
No I get what kind of confusion they mean, I just feel it leads to a confused defense, as often as it fools an NFL QB! I don't like the style, so I am mocking it...a little.

Gotcha!