LISTEN: 49ers Midseason Mailbag →

There are 237 users in the forums

Eric Mangini Thread

Shop 49ers game tickets

Eric Mangini Thread

Originally posted by REB4:
Originally posted by 9moon:
Originally posted by susweel:
Hopefully they dont confuse themselves.

agree..

too much by design at times can be just as bad if not terrible..

we went to the Denver game and showed all kinds of movement againt the Chess Master and he was so confused by our looks that he only threw for 5 if not 6 TDs..
How many starters were out again against Denver? You don't put in a sophisticated D when you're team is full of replacements. How do you make a 4.5 player look like a 4.9 player? Confuse him with your play calling.

That was the give-away game...we played a vanilla off coverage scheme all game long. Every pass was under 4 seconds and I don't think Manning even broke a sweat that game. Everyone knows when you play Manning, the best thing to do is jam press at the LOS and throw off the timing. He's a statue back there after that. We chose the opposite.
Originally posted by NCommand:
That was the give-away game...we played a vanilla off coverage scheme all game long. Every pass was under 4 seconds and I don't think Manning even broke a sweat that game. Everyone knows when you play Manning, the best thing to do is jam press at the LOS and throw off the timing. He's a statue back there after that. We chose the opposite.

I agree but I think every QB has ajustments... some u have to press, some not... Brady and Manning u have to preasure.
Originally posted by susweel:
Hopefully they dont confuse themselves.

exactly what I'm thinking...

Lord knows Dahl was already confused last year
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
No I get what kind of confusion they mean, I just feel it leads to a confused defense, as often as it fools an NFL QB! I don't like the style, so I am mocking it...a little.

Gotcha!
While I dont think our guys will be walking around confused on the field, I do think people are kidding themselves if they dont think there will be an adjustment period. They've been in the same D for many years. Now they want to change up the language and philosophy. There is no doubt the reaction time will not be as fluid or crisp. Its just unreasonable to expect as much. Chances are players will have different assignments and what was once instinctual, will now have to be thought through to some degree.
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
No I get what kind of confusion they mean, I just feel it leads to a confused defense, as often as it fools an NFL QB! I don't like the style, so I am mocking it...a little.

Gotcha!
While I dont think our guys will be walking around confused on the field, I do think people are kidding themselves if they dont think there will be an adjustment period. They've been in the same D for many years. Now they want to change up the language and philosophy. There is no doubt the reaction time will not be as fluid or crisp. Its just unreasonable to expect as much. Chances are players will have different assignments and what was once instinctual, will now have to be thought through to some degree.

Totally. I'm sure the concepts will be the same but you still need to learn the terminology of this defense...your roles...it's like going from a Walsh WCO to a Holmgren WCO. Same concepts but some different terminology, slight differences in philosophy and designs.
[ Edited by NCommand on May 27, 2015 at 11:25 AM ]
Good on-topic stuff in this read:

Antoine Bethea covers all aspects of the 49ers defense in Wednesday's Niners Daily.If there's any player who has his finger on the pulse of the San Francisco 49ers defense, it's Bethea. The veteran strong safety, who is entering his 10th NFL season and second with the 49ers, held court during last week's open locker room media session.

Bethea coursed through a number of topics regarding the team's defense, but he began with the man pulling the strings, defensive coordinator Eric Mangini. It's Mangini's first season in his current position but third with the 49ers, having spent the 2012 season as a senior offensive consultant and the 2013 season as the tight ends coach.

Mangini has been a defensive coordinator once before, with the New England Patriots in 2005.

"Every defensive coordinator has their style," Bethea said. "Coach Mangini's thing is that we're going to cause confusion. The opposing offense won't know what we're going to do each down. That could be bringing pressure or dropping eight in coverage but it's all about keeping the offense on their heels.

"That means a lot of movement and everyone having to know what everyone else is doing. It could be different people doing different jobs. Everybody just knows what we have to do. It's going to be fun."

Creating confusion means avoiding confusing themselves. That may sound silly, but constant movement and the required ability to play multiple positions leads to a steep learning curve.

Every position brings with it a different set of responsibilities that can vary from play to play. The only way to get up to speed is through constant reps in practice. That's what the 49ers are trying to accomplish during the offseason program.

"That's what OTAs are for, getting into the playbook, getting out there in front of the offense, getting repetitions, and studying," Bethea said. "Then once the season comes the coaches can feel it out and say, 'Ok, we do this well and we don't do this as well.' As the season goes on, that's how the game plan works."

The 49ers 2014 MVP is part of a heralded safety duo with Eric Reid and will play behind a group of cornerbacks who will all be fighting for starting spots. Ahead of them stands the front seven, linebackers and defensive linemen who have garnered most of the offseason attention with the departures of Patrick Willis, Chris Borland and Justin Smith.

Bethea said he's confident the 49ers have the pieces already in place to fill those voids.

"We have a lot of depth and a lot of good players up there that can get it done for us," he said. "Depth is always a good thing."

Finally, Bethea touched on his head coach, providing glowing reviews of Jim Tomsula's first offseason since his promotion.

"I love him, man," Bethea said. "He's a charismatic man and he's one with the players. I think it's going to be a good deal for us. His energy with the players and everything is good for us."

The coach and his star safety created a rapport with one another in 2014, when Tomsula served as the 49ers defensive line coach. As a strong safety, Bethea had conversations with Tomsula regarding his responsibilities in the running game and the need to fit in between defensive linemen to fill his gap.

Even with the new esteemed title of head coach, Bethea said Tomsula hasn't changed a bit.

"He's the same as when he was the D-line coach," he said. "He's going to come in and do what he does."


http://www.49ers.com/news/blog/article-2/Antoine-Bethea-Eric-Mangini%E2%80%99s-Defense-to-Cause-Offensive-Confusion/f6c9aca7-7581-4684-b78a-91e17a2f647e
How would the "new look confusing" defense fair when opposing offenses go no-huddle? (and w/ no time to substitute or make changes)
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 33,050
Originally posted by Mertonschickendance:
How would the "new look confusing" defense fair when opposing offenses go no-huddle? (and w/ no time to substitute or make changes)

That's one of the benefits of running no huddle. It doesn't allow the defense to audible pre-snap based off of offensive alignment and forces the defense to play vanilla. Post play communication between defensive players is also negated.
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Mertonschickendance:
How would the "new look confusing" defense fair when opposing offenses go no-huddle? (and w/ no time to substitute or make changes)

That's one of the benefits of running no huddle. It doesn't allow the defense to audible pre-snap based off of offensive alignment and forces the defense to play vanilla. Post play communication between defensive players is also negated.

considering how uptempo our offense is running our defense should be prepared to play no huddle all game.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
No I get what kind of confusion they mean, I just feel it leads to a confused defense, as often as it fools an NFL QB! I don't like the style, so I am mocking it...a little.

Gotcha!
While I dont think our guys will be walking around confused on the field, I do think people are kidding themselves if they dont think there will be an adjustment period. They've been in the same D for many years. Now they want to change up the language and philosophy. There is no doubt the reaction time will not be as fluid or crisp. Its just unreasonable to expect as much. Chances are players will have different assignments and what was once instinctual, will now have to be thought through to some degree.

Totally. I'm sure the concepts will be the same but you still need to learn the terminology of this defense...your roles...it's like going from a Walsh WCO to a Holmgren WCO. Same concepts but some different terminology, slight differences in philosophy and designs.

Even in a simple straight up defense, players get confused on assignments, one of the nice things about Fangio's defense was its simplicity, it helped keep blown coverages to a minimum, and the big plays from opposing offenses to a minimum.
This plan will be one of those "big risk big reward" concepts, hopefully we adjust quickly, and minimize our mistakes, get ready for big plays from our defense, and big plays from opponents.
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
No I get what kind of confusion they mean, I just feel it leads to a confused defense, as often as it fools an NFL QB! I don't like the style, so I am mocking it...a little.

Gotcha!
While I dont think our guys will be walking around confused on the field, I do think people are kidding themselves if they dont think there will be an adjustment period. They've been in the same D for many years. Now they want to change up the language and philosophy. There is no doubt the reaction time will not be as fluid or crisp. Its just unreasonable to expect as much. Chances are players will have different assignments and what was once instinctual, will now have to be thought through to some degree.

Good call!

I expect a blown coverage or 2 and other slip ups.

also I expect a much more aggressive philosophy from Mangini.
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Mertonschickendance:
How would the "new look confusing" defense fair when opposing offenses go no-huddle? (and w/ no time to substitute or make changes)

That's one of the benefits of running no huddle. It doesn't allow the defense to audible pre-snap based off of offensive alignment and forces the defense to play vanilla. Post play communication between defensive players is also negated.

I love the no-huddle - it could have helped us last year.

And last year is dead and over - time to start fresh.
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 33,050
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Even in a simple straight up defense, players get confused on assignments, one of the nice things about Fangio's defense was its simplicity, it helped keep blown coverages to a minimum, and the big plays from opposing offenses to a minimum.
This plan will be one of those "big risk big reward" concepts, hopefully we adjust quickly, and minimize our mistakes, get ready for big plays from our defense, and big plays from opponents.

What is it about Fangio's defense that makes you say it was nice in its "simplicity"? I respectfully disagree and if you saw the coverages he ran, you might change your mind.
Originally posted by thl408:
What is it about Fangio's defense that makes you say it was nice in its "simplicity"? I respectfully disagree and if you saw the coverages he ran, you might change your mind.

True. Great coverage schemes. I expect Mangini to actually be very good in that regard. I think he had his greatest coaching success as the secondary coach for the Patriots.
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 33,050
Originally posted by crake49:
Originally posted by thl408:
What is it about Fangio's defense that makes you say it was nice in its "simplicity"? I respectfully disagree and if you saw the coverages he ran, you might change your mind.

True. Great coverage schemes. I expect Mangini to actually be very good in that regard. I think he had his greatest coaching success as the secondary coach for the Patriots.

I'm starting to think Mangini was originally brought in as a "consultant" so that he was reserved and not taken by any other team. I don't remember many DC candidates intervewed when the position was open. He shares a lot of the same coverage principles as what Fangio/Donatell used and learned them from the originator, The Hoodie. As far as coverage scheme, I see a seamless transition from Fangio to Mangini. What it looks like Mangini is trying to do is add more variety to the front 7 play (speculation on my part).
Share 49ersWebzone