Eric Mangini Thread

Originally posted by SofaKing:
Concerning Seattle, while listening to the podcast it was interesting to hear them talk about how Mangini doesn't really like to call a 4-man rush. He likes to call 5+ pressure, and mixes in some 3-man rushes like an off-speed pitch. This in stark contrast to Fangio, who heavily leaned on a 4 man rush.

Against Seattle, I liked our approach to regularly rush 4 and try to contain Wilson in the pocket. I think that's the way to go, and it generally worked. Seattle has owned us recently, but it was never their offense that owned us. We've always held them in check. Last year we held them under 20 points in both losses with a depleted defense. I fear that regularly rushing 5+ leaves us too vulnerable against a master scrambler like Wilson, and rushing 3 is also a bad idea against him.

AZ's 4 safety defense, the one we're possibly trying to duplicate, was a mixed bag against Seattle last year. They played them well @ Seattle in the 1st matchup. The 2nd game in AZ the Cards got absolutely shredded for nearly 600 yards. Completely dominated.

We'll see how it all plays out. I like this hybrid defense idea using multiple safeties, and we might be able to better matchup against Seattle.. We have the players to pull it off, and our base defense should be pretty stout once again. I like that Mangini plans on being a bit more aggressive with sending pressure, but with dominant pass rushers like Aldon and possibly Lynch, maybe he doesn't need to rely on it so heavily like he did in the past. I want him to be smart about it, especially against Seattle.

Very objective post and helps with context. Well done!

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
One reason to blitz 5 against Seattle is to cut off run lanes for lynch. Having a guy like Tartt fill a gap one play and an ILB the next gives the OL fits.

This will also (hopefully) keep even pressure on Wilson. Fangio often used three against Wilson and that gives him too much room to manuever. He scrambled until there was a coverage breakdown.

If the 5th rusher can take out a receiver at the LOS so much the better!

Nothing pissed me off more about Fangio than that [the bold].

I don't care who is in the secondary - give an elusive QB enough time and someone will get open.

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
One reason to blitz 5 against Seattle is to cut off run lanes for lynch. Having a guy like Tartt fill a gap one play and an ILB the next gives the OL fits.

This will also (hopefully) keep even pressure on Wilson. Fangio often used three against Wilson and that gives him too much room to manuever. He scrambled until there was a coverage breakdown.

If the 5th rusher can take out a receiver at the LOS so much the better!

Nothing pissed me off more about Fangio than that [the bold].

I don't care who is in the secondary - give an elusive QB enough time and someone will get open.

wally dares to be critical of god how many times did our defense crawl into a fetal position in the second half over the last few years?a major reason why alot of our wins were a helluva lot harder than they needed to be.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by tohara3:
Great listen there. Can't wait to see his defense out on the field this season!

It helps confirm our top picks in Ward and Tartt too...LJ McCray added as well. I wonder if Moody will also be that hybrid as well?

Just had a chance to listen to that podcast and it is indeed very thought provoking. I was amazed that Mangini's defense (when he was HC) was last in the league at how often he came with a standard 4 man rush. I don't know how much of that had to do with RRyan as DC, but Mangini was the HC and obviously allowed it.

Very nice insight into ARI's defense as well and it shines a lot of light into the Ward and Tartt picks, like you said. Ward as the hybrid FS/CB with Tartt as the hybrid SS/LB. I've been watching Ward's tape and he is a very capable CB for a converted safety. He will do just fine in spot duty at slot CB.

Does anyone remember where Merton Hanks would line up when he was playing the hybrid FS/CB role? Was he a slot or outside CB? That hybrid FS/CB role allows the defense to stay in its base when the offense comes with a 3WR look and not suffer anything with regards to run defense. Simply put Ward into the slot, play the other safety in a single high look. The front 7 doesn't come off the field and Ward can hold his own in the slot. SEA loves to run with 11 personnel (3WR), so this is a direct counter to that. Of course, Ward is not the starting FS so this situation hasn't come to fruition yet.

I can answer this in context of what I remember Siefert designing against Dallas. We had 2 problems to solve against Dallas' passing game; Jay Novaczek and Alvin Harper. Irvin was more a possession receiver and really didn't do as much damage as those two. The secondary had problems with Harpers speed and this opens the middle for Novaczek. Once Sanders joined the team, Siefert assigns him not to Irvin but against Harper. Merton Hanks now doesn't have to help on Harper and is rangy, tall and fast enough to stay with Novaczek - something out LBs had trouble doing.

Hanks as was a hybrid in that he could cover both the 3rd receiver whether that was a TE or a wideout.

I knew Deion was assigned to Harper, but I didn't know Hanks was matched up against Novachek. Thanks for that.

Actually, Deion was only assigned to Harper (majority of the time) during the NFCCG.... the defensed rolled the coverage on Michael Irvin, and Hanks was never assigned to cover Novachek.. that game, I believed that the whole secondary just kept everyone infront of them while Deion blanketed Harper..

Hanks orginally was drafted as a corner (reminds me of our Johnson now) and kept making plays that the team decided to have in there at FS over the clueless 1st rounder (Dana Hall) who was a CB at Washington..

to this day, I was so angry why the 49ers did not draft a TRUE safety in Darryl Williams (The U)..

If you have this game recorded, please watch it again... the 2 INTs that Hanks had was not because he was assigned to Nova, those INTs where from the ball bouncing out of Novak's hands and one of them was a great acrobatic play by Hanks..

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by tohara3:
Great listen there. Can't wait to see his defense out on the field this season!

It helps confirm our top picks in Ward and Tartt too...LJ McCray added as well. I wonder if Moody will also be that hybrid as well?

Just had a chance to listen to that podcast and it is indeed very thought provoking. I was amazed that Mangini's defense (when he was HC) was last in the league at how often he came with a standard 4 man rush. I don't know how much of that had to do with RRyan as DC, but Mangini was the HC and obviously allowed it.

Very nice insight into ARI's defense as well and it shines a lot of light into the Ward and Tartt picks, like you said. Ward as the hybrid FS/CB with Tartt as the hybrid SS/LB. I've been watching Ward's tape and he is a very capable CB for a converted safety. He will do just fine in spot duty at slot CB.

Does anyone remember where Merton Hanks would line up when he was playing the hybrid FS/CB role? Was he a slot or outside CB? That hybrid FS/CB role allows the defense to stay in its base when the offense comes with a 3WR look and not suffer anything with regards to run defense. Simply put Ward into the slot, play the other safety in a single high look. The front 7 doesn't come off the field and Ward can hold his own in the slot. SEA loves to run with 11 personnel (3WR), so this is a direct counter to that. Of course, Ward is not the starting FS so this situation hasn't come to fruition yet.

I can answer this in context of what I remember Siefert designing against Dallas. We had 2 problems to solve against Dallas' passing game; Jay Novaczek and Alvin Harper. Irvin was more a possession receiver and really didn't do as much damage as those two. The secondary had problems with Harpers speed and this opens the middle for Novaczek. Once Sanders joined the team, Siefert assigns him not to Irvin but against Harper. Merton Hanks now doesn't have to help on Harper and is rangy, tall and fast enough to stay with Novaczek - something out LBs had trouble doing.

Hanks as was a hybrid in that he could cover both the 3rd receiver whether that was a TE or a wideout.

I knew Deion was assigned to Harper, but I didn't know Hanks was matched up against Novachek. Thanks for that.

Deion on Harper was only for the NFCC. Regular season game he wasn't and Harper had a 90 yard reception in the first half.

Good short article on Bethea.
http://www.ninersnation.com/2015/7/15/8967099/49ers-salary-cap-how-long-does-antoine-bethea-stick-around

Thoughts??

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Good short article on Bethea.
http://www.ninersnation.com/2015/7/15/8967099/49ers-salary-cap-how-long-does-antoine-bethea-stick-around

Thoughts??

So much will depend on the development and health of Reid, Ward and Tartt that it's impossible to guess what the team will do. I'm hopeful that the younger guys take over but it may also be likely to see a restructuring of his contract.

.. aside liking Tartt ( had him going to us in the 3rd w/my 1st Mock Draft ), drafting him was really a smart move by Baalke because not only that he will bring insurance to Reid (concussion), he also can takeover Bethea once we're ready to move on from this veteran..

Originally posted by 9moon:
.. aside liking Tartt ( had him going to us in the 3rd w/my 1st Mock Draft ), drafting him was really a smart move by Baalke because not only that he will bring insurance to Reid (concussion), he also can takeover Bethea once we're ready to move on from this veteran..

...while playing the robber role in the interim. This could end up being one of our most significant draft picks, no doubt.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Good short article on Bethea.
http://www.ninersnation.com/2015/7/15/8967099/49ers-salary-cap-how-long-does-antoine-bethea-stick-around

Thoughts??

So much will depend on the development and health of Reid, Ward and Tartt that it's impossible to guess what the team will do. I'm hopeful that the younger guys take over but it may also be likely to see a restructuring of his contract.

Agreed. Might as well restructure him if he's playing well...keep Tartt as the robber and Ward in the slot with Reid/Bethea patrolling the back end. And watch out for McCray as well.

You know, McCray and Tartt may just become that TANDEM we haven't had since Hicks and Williamson or even Lott and Fuller!!

Originally posted by 9moon:
You know, McCray and Tartt may just become that TANDEM we haven't had since Hicks and Williamson or even Lott and Fuller!!

Really like him as well. That group has potential to be special...tons of talent there: Bethea, Reid, Tartt, McCray & Ward.

Originally posted by 9moon:
You know, McCray and Tartt may just become that TANDEM we haven't had since Hicks and Williamson or even Lott and Fuller!!

lol..man 9moon is 24/7 drunk