Eric Mangini Thread

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by verb1der:

Mangini : Once you see that ball I need you to jump up as high as you can and try and hug it!

Vernon looks f**king bored out of his mind.

Because he was listening to a fake TE coach

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
He has the classic hand on chin thinking position while prentending to care.

nailed it

Originally posted by ninerjok:

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by verb1der:


Mangini : Once you see that ball I need you to jump up as high as you can and try and hug it!

Vernon looks f**king bored out of his mind.

Because he was listening to a fake TE coach

no because he didn't give any f**ks last season and is a alligator armed overrated b***h

Originally posted by NinerGM:
The overall question is can a defensive philosophy risk giving up the big play with a ball control, run oriented, offense. Particularly, if you're playing against the same type of offense. Giving up the big play And just one could end the game for you. Thoughts?

Are we sure we're sticking with a ball control, run oriented offense? With all of this change going on this is subject to debate. I don't think we're switching to a chuck and duck spread offense, but increasing the tempo is certainly an issue being addressed and some of our OL maulers who couldn't pass block are playing elsewhere. I'm thinking we'll be a balanced attack with more short passes and screens thrown next year than the previous 3 combined.

Originally posted by defenderDX:
no because he didn't give any f**ks last season and is a alligator armed overrated b***h

well that and he did not have a good coach in my opinion. much better this year moving him to dc

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Try here: http://www.ninersnation.com/ > scroll down to: Better Rivals: Hybrid players and the 49ers D

Wanted to list some of the stats that the podcast threw out that I found very interesting. First, a few terms they used:

Blitz: 5 or more pass rushers
Big Blitz : 6 or more pass rushers

Mangini as a head coach (CLE, NYJ):
- The percentage of the time when he rushed 4 (standard pass rush) was dead last in every season except for in his 2nd season as NYJ, where he was 31st. So he rarely rushes 4 when compared to the rest of the league. Rushing 3 is considered not rushing 4 so this isn't exactly his blitz percentage.

Mangini in first year in NYJ had a Big Blitz percentage of 15.5%. Compared to Fangio's blitz percentage of 17% in 2012. So Mangini sent nearly as many big blitzes as Fangio sent any blitz.

Overall, Mangini's blitz percentage in his years as a head coach (NYJ, CLE) were between 30-45%.

Manigni's defensive coordinator in NYJ was Bob Sutton (currently DC in KCA). In CLE, the defensive coordinator was Rob Ryan (currently DC in NO).

Vic Fangio Blitz (5 or more) percentage:
2012: 17%
2013: 19.5%
2014: 20.5%

I'd say we've found a very serious difference in philosophy and should be a nice segway into more realistic expectations for 2016. We're going to bring pressure. And we're going to disguise it pre and post snap. Now, I know Mangini said, the amount we blitz is determined by the opponents we face, so it could be 30 times in a game or just 3 but overall, I think these numbers will give you a good idea of what to expect.

Now, the next question is, when QB's are blitzed, they typically have to pass quicker and hit their hot reads. One way to stifle the quick pass is tighter coverage up at the LOS (i.e. bump-n-run/press, jam-press, etc.).

Does anyone know how he used his CB's on the majority of these blitzes? And who he used TO blitz...ILB's, OLB's, S's, CB's, etc.

I'm surprised Fangio was that high last year--20%! My recollection of Mangini's blitz packages is that he sent guys from just about anywhere on the field. He's stated that the key is confusing the offense and forcing them into mistakes...even if they don't get to the QB. He also said that if the offense knows who is likely to blitz it diminishes the impact.

While Mangini's D may be more exciting and fun, it might also give up some big plays. Might also get the D off the field faster and keep them fresher for late games. Trade offs I'd be willing to accept. One bad thing about Fangio's D was how much it put on the DL to play long minutes and take constant double teams.

I agree it will get the D off the field faster. Either they get some sacks/turnovers or they allow the offense to move down the field in chunk plays to score quickly.
.
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Seriously though, I think there is a good foundation in place from Fangio's tenure with the pattern match principles. This will allow Mangini to dial up blitzes and still play a safe coverage on the backend. I'll try to show some more examples of the fire zone blitz where the 49ers, or maybe another team, pattern match. It's 5 man pressure, there's three deep (safe), it starts off as zone where every defender can read run/pass, everyone eventually matches up in man coverage so no one is covering grass. Perhaps the closest thing to a best of all worlds defensive call.

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by defenderDX:
no because he didn't give any f**ks last season and is a alligator armed overrated b***h

well that and he did not have a good coach in my opinion. much better this year moving him to dc

Vernon was dogging it all year. You can't coach maximum effort.

VD is the only TE who has chances to truck people but would rather jump over them like an overgrown ballerina.

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by defenderDX:
no because he didn't give any f**ks last season and is a alligator armed overrated b***h

well that and he did not have a good coach in my opinion. much better this year moving him to dc

Vernon was dogging it all year. You can't coach maximum effort.

VD is the only TE who has chances to truck people but would rather jump over them like an overgrown ballerina.

i don't consider that jumping over..more like just jumping up

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by defenderDX:
no because he didn't give any f**ks last season and is a alligator armed overrated b***h

well that and he did not have a good coach in my opinion. much better this year moving him to dc

Vernon was dogging it all year. You can't coach maximum effort.

VD is the only TE who has chances to truck people but would rather jump over them like an overgrown ballerina.

i don't consider that jumping over..more like just jumping up

He was trying to and Got caught in the air.

Originally posted by NinerGM:
The overall question is can a defensive philosophy risk giving up the big play with a ball control, run oriented, offense. Particularly, if you're playing against the same type of offense. Giving up the big play And just one could end the game for you. Thoughts?

While they have paid lip service to the power run game, they have also mentioned explosive offensive plays. I think Logan has in mind punishing the stacked box by sending VD and T Smith down the field. Kaepernick has shown that he can buy time and pass well on the run, with explosive players added he should be much more dynamic.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Try here: http://www.ninersnation.com/ > scroll down to: Better Rivals: Hybrid players and the 49ers D

Wanted to list some of the stats that the podcast threw out that I found very interesting. First, a few terms they used:

Blitz: 5 or more pass rushers
Big Blitz : 6 or more pass rushers

Mangini as a head coach (CLE, NYJ):
- The percentage of the time when he rushed 4 (standard pass rush) was dead last in every season except for in his 2nd season as NYJ, where he was 31st. So he rarely rushes 4 when compared to the rest of the league. Rushing 3 is considered not rushing 4 so this isn't exactly his blitz percentage.

Mangini in first year in NYJ had a Big Blitz percentage of 15.5%. Compared to Fangio's blitz percentage of 17% in 2012. So Mangini sent nearly as many big blitzes as Fangio sent any blitz.

Overall, Mangini's blitz percentage in his years as a head coach (NYJ, CLE) were between 30-45%.

Manigni's defensive coordinator in NYJ was Bob Sutton (currently DC in KCA). In CLE, the defensive coordinator was Rob Ryan (currently DC in NO).

Vic Fangio Blitz (5 or more) percentage:
2012: 17%
2013: 19.5%
2014: 20.5%

I'd say we've found a very serious difference in philosophy and should be a nice segway into more realistic expectations for 2016. We're going to bring pressure. And we're going to disguise it pre and post snap. Now, I know Mangini said, the amount we blitz is determined by the opponents we face, so it could be 30 times in a game or just 3 but overall, I think these numbers will give you a good idea of what to expect.

Now, the next question is, when QB's are blitzed, they typically have to pass quicker and hit their hot reads. One way to stifle the quick pass is tighter coverage up at the LOS (i.e. bump-n-run/press, jam-press, etc.).

Does anyone know how he used his CB's on the majority of these blitzes? And who he used TO blitz...ILB's, OLB's, S's, CB's, etc.

I'm surprised Fangio was that high last year--20%! My recollection of Mangini's blitz packages is that he sent guys from just about anywhere on the field. He's stated that the key is confusing the offense and forcing them into mistakes...even if they don't get to the QB. He also said that if the offense knows who is likely to blitz it diminishes the impact.

While Mangini's D may be more exciting and fun, it might also give up some big plays. Might also get the D off the field faster and keep them fresher for late games. Trade offs I'd be willing to accept. One bad thing about Fangio's D was how much it put on the DL to play long minutes and take constant double teams.

I agree it will get the D off the field faster. Either they get some sacks/turnovers or they allow the offense to move down the field in chunk plays to score quickly.
.
.
Seriously though, I think there is a good foundation in place from Fangio's tenure with the pattern match principles. This will allow Mangini to dial up blitzes and still play a safe coverage on the backend. I'll try to show some more examples of the fire zone blitz where the 49ers, or maybe another team, pattern match. It's 5 man pressure, there's three deep (safe), it starts off as zone where every defender can read run/pass, everyone eventually matches up in man coverage so no one is covering grass. Perhaps the closest thing to a best of all worlds defensive call.

Such good stuff!

Originally posted by thl408:
I agree it will get the D off the field faster. Either they get some sacks/turnovers or they allow the offense to move down the field in chunk plays to score quickly.
.
.
Seriously though, I think there is a good foundation in place from Fangio's tenure with the pattern match principles. This will allow Mangini to dial up blitzes and still play a safe coverage on the backend. I'll try to show some more examples of the fire zone blitz where the 49ers, or maybe another team, pattern match. It's 5 man pressure, there's three deep (safe), it starts off as zone where every defender can read run/pass, everyone eventually matches up in man coverage so no one is covering grass. Perhaps the closest thing to a best of all worlds defensive call.

Will be interesting to watch who wins the starting DB jobs and just how much subbing they do. The past coaches put a premium on experience and not making mental errors but that may not be possible with such a young group next year. Will their athleticsm make up for lack of experience? Hope so! They do have Wright, Cook and Brock with a fair amount of exerience, and six younger guys competing for spots.

Playing three deep would open up a lot of opportunity for some QBs--but they only play one great QB next season...Aaron Rodgers, so perhaps this is a great year to be more aggressive. I guess Roethlisberger would be the next best QB they will see but I don't put him in the same category as Brees, Brady and P Manning.

Originally posted by NinerGM:
Honestly guys, I only seeing tempo as being part of the execution, but we will still have a heavy dose of run IMHO. I don't expect the offense to be that much different in terms of scheme, just execution. As I'm all for blitzing and being aggressive, I hope a balance is struck because the offense will take time to learn how to use their new weapons. I don't think they'll be able to get into a scoring match every game immediately.

Agree but my hope is that they stop insisting on running up the middle against stacked defenses. If they incorporate the short passing game to punish defenses it will change the whole effectiveness of the O. In an odd way Gore being gone may help the offense. They won't be tempted to hand off every first down.

Edit: pass to set up the run...like a West Coast Offense!

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by NinerGM:
Honestly guys, I only seeing tempo as being part of the execution, but we will still have a heavy dose of run IMHO. I don't expect the offense to be that much different in terms of scheme, just execution. As I'm all for blitzing and being aggressive, I hope a balance is struck because the offense will take time to learn how to use their new weapons. I don't think they'll be able to get into a scoring match every game immediately.

Agree but my hope is that they stop insisting on running up the middle against stacked defenses. If they incorporate the short passing game to punish defenses it will change the whole effectiveness of the O. In an odd way Gore being gone may help the offense. They won't be tempted to hand off every first down.

Edit: pass to set up the run...like a West Coast Offense!

YES!!! I can only hope for a return to this philosophy.

The players have said the system will remain the same, which I would expect. It wasn't all bad, we did some good things in this system, and a few tweaks the coaching staff are working on could get us to take the next step.

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by NinerGM:
Honestly guys, I only seeing tempo as being part of the execution, but we will still have a heavy dose of run IMHO. I don't expect the offense to be that much different in terms of scheme, just execution. As I'm all for blitzing and being aggressive, I hope a balance is struck because the offense will take time to learn how to use their new weapons. I don't think they'll be able to get into a scoring match every game immediately.

Agree but my hope is that they stop insisting on running up the middle against stacked defenses. If they incorporate the short passing game to punish defenses it will change the whole effectiveness of the O. In an odd way Gore being gone may help the offense. They won't be tempted to hand off every first down.

Edit: pass to set up the run...like a West Coast Offense!

YES!!! I can only hope for a return to this philosophy.

The players have said the system will remain the same, which I would expect. It wasn't all bad, we did some good things in this system, and a few tweaks the coaching staff are working on could get us to take the next step.

AMEN to all of the above!!

Go down into the "vault" and lets do it again!