Eric Mangini Thread

Originally posted by SofaKing:
It's every freaking game too. Not only this play, but on the ensuing punt, which was blocked, they get away with illegally batting the ball forward 20-30 yards down the field. Instead of taking over at the spot of the foul, they make us take over where the ball went out of bounds, essentially being penalized for their infraction.

Then you have them getting away with a personal foul on Andy Lee in NFCCG, running into his plant leg on a punt. Should have been 15 yards, automatic first down. Easy call, do we get it? Of course not.

Then you have the BS call on Moody. Clean hit on Wilson, BOOM, personal foul, fresh set of downs, Seahawks score TD, game over.

It's f**king ridiculous. And I'm just pointing out the Seahawks games, not even going to mention other colossal miscalls against the Giants, Saints, Ravens..etc.....Why can't games be rigged in our favor for once?

Kearse's acrobatic catch was the last of their luck. Wilson's INT at the goal line was the start of them no longer having luck. I truly believe that.

Originally posted by Stud:

Originally posted by SofaKing:
It's every freaking game too. Not only this play, but on the ensuing punt, which was blocked, they get away with illegally batting the ball forward 20-30 yards down the field. Instead of taking over at the spot of the foul, they make us take over where the ball went out of bounds, essentially being penalized for their infraction.

Then you have them getting away with a personal foul on Andy Lee in NFCCG, running into his plant leg on a punt. Should have been 15 yards, automatic first down. Easy call, do we get it? Of course not.

Then you have the BS call on Moody. Clean hit on Wilson, BOOM, personal foul, fresh set of downs, Seahawks score TD, game over.

It's f**king ridiculous. And I'm just pointing out the Seahawks games, not even going to mention other colossal miscalls against the Giants, Saints, Ravens..etc.....Why can't games be rigged in our favor for once?

Kearse's acrobatic catch was the last of their luck. Wilson's INT at the goal line was the start of them no longer having luck. I truly believe that.

I have been hoping for that ever since that INT. I thought the luck is finally over. We will have to see, i have to think they won't come back and win the SB after that heartbreak though. Gotta be a hangover

"last year there was more playing, no theres more thinking" Great Man genius the guru, we are going to "think" our opponents, rather than play them! haha!

I know what he meant, but we are going to be trickier on defense, but my concern and we say a little of last week, is are we smart enough, will we in effect, trick ourselves by over thinking, or making the wrong conclusion, do we have the personnel.

I sure hope this works out, because the offense may be pretty good, we are in the wrong division for shoot outs and track meets.

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
"last year there was more playing, no theres more thinking" Great Man genius the guru, we are going to "think" our opponents, rather than play them! haha!

I know what he meant, but we are going to be trickier on defense, but my concern and we say a little of last week, is are we smart enough, will we in effect, trick ourselves by over thinking, or making the wrong conclusion, do we have the personnel.

I sure hope this works out, because the offense may be pretty good, we are in the wrong division for shoot outs and track meets.

Yeah, don't judge the last pre season game much...you saw a tiny little bit...such as Tartt in coverage and knifing throw for a TFL...Reaser on a CB blitz where he jumped up and knocked down the pass, Brooks starting at the WILL, etc. But for the most part, it was very very vanilla. In fact, we didn't even change personnel or go DIME/NICKEL to counter when the Texans went with 4 WR's so poor Moody (260 pound TED) was forced to provide underneath coverage on a speedy slot WR while Reid and Bethea were ordering pizza 10 yards deeper than they normally play instead of being in position to take that WR once passed off by Moody/Skov.

21 of their 23 points came off this vanilla defense.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Yeah, don't judge the last pre season game much...you saw a tiny little bit...such as Tartt in coverage and knifing throw for a TFL...Reaser on a CB blitz where he jumped up and knocked down the pass, Brooks starting at the WILL, etc. But for the most part, it was very very vanilla. In fact, we didn't even change personnel or go DIME/NICKEL to counter when the Texans went with 4 WR's so poor Moody (260 pound TED) was forced to provide underneath coverage on a speedy slot WR while Reid and Bethea were ordering pizza 10 yards deeper than they normally play instead of being in position to take that WR once passed off by Moody/Skov.

21 of their 23 points came off this vanilla defense.

I think that was very intentional. And I wouldn't be surprised if they told the Texans what they planned on doing and vise versa. My take away is that the 49ers wanted to stress the scheme abilities to compensate for mismatch. I also believe they wanted some film that demonstrates the importance of pre snap reads.

We are making assumptions based on what may have been a completely scripted scrimmage between two teams that won't see each other but have everything to gain by cooperation.

Thoughts?

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:

"last year there was more playing, no theres more thinking" Great Man genius the guru, we are going to "think" our opponents, rather than play them! haha!

I know what he meant, but we are going to be trickier on defense, but my concern and we say a little of last week, is are we smart enough, will we in effect, trick ourselves by over thinking, or making the wrong conclusion, do we have the personnel.

I sure hope this works out, because the offense may be pretty good, we are in the wrong division for shoot outs and track meets.

Wouldn't that be par for the course though, we finally get a consistent 375+ ypg 27-28ppg offense and the defense falters.

I just get worried when the only way to generate pressure is through blitzing. That just puts so much pressure on your secondary and leads to very frustrating 3rd down conversions.

Originally posted by Geeked:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Yeah, don't judge the last pre season game much...you saw a tiny little bit...such as Tartt in coverage and knifing throw for a TFL...Reaser on a CB blitz where he jumped up and knocked down the pass, Brooks starting at the WILL, etc. But for the most part, it was very very vanilla. In fact, we didn't even change personnel or go DIME/NICKEL to counter when the Texans went with 4 WR's so poor Moody (260 pound TED) was forced to provide underneath coverage on a speedy slot WR while Reid and Bethea were ordering pizza 10 yards deeper than they normally play instead of being in position to take that WR once passed off by Moody/Skov.

21 of their 23 points came off this vanilla defense.

I think that was very intentional. And I wouldn't be surprised if they told the Texans what they planned on doing and vise versa. My take away is that the 49ers wanted to stress the scheme abilities to compensate for mismatch. I also believe they wanted some film that demonstrates the importance of pre snap reads.

We are making assumptions based on what may have been a completely scripted scrimmage between two teams that won't see each other but have everything to gain by cooperation.

Thoughts?

I thought the same thing and esp. given Mangini played Moody and Skov the entire game, I think he wanted to get a look to see how the 2nd team defense could fair in short-term coverage. And this is why: "Just regular stuff we need to work on in practice," Moody said. "We have a lot of stuff we have to work on still."

Now, for perspective, the 'team defense' concept will still take some time d/t the moving around of personnel (disguise) and communication but...

In fact, it's essentially what Bowman said two days before the 49ers started off by struggling in Houston.

"It's a new scheme," Bowman said. "It requires you to do a lot of things when one person moves. That's just something different that we haven't been used to in years. But we're putting the work in and (Mangini) is being really patient with us in learning the scheme.

"I think we have a good mix here. He understands that it's a lot. But when we get it, we'll be a damn good defense."


http://www.sfgate.com/49ers/article/Mangini-s-new-defense-shows-growing-pains-6449656.php

Hope they don't think too hard. Don't let a play or a tackle run by you while you're thinking.

This was posted in the gameday thread but it has a lot to do with Mangini so I'll copy it here as well. This is a play that alludes to what Manigni and the players are saying about causing confusion before the snap.

Base 3-4 personnel
One deep safety. There is a safety in the box. CBs up in press. There are only 3 DL at the line of scrimmage with both OLBs in the slot. Is there a 4th rusher?
A QB sees this presnap alignment and may think cover1 or cover3. To his right, there is a Fade/Out combination. Against either of these coverages (cover1/cover3), the Out route will work to attack the flat.


Ball is snapped and one of the ILBs is the 4th rusher. The box safety quickly gains depth to his deep 1/2 (blue arrow). The deep safety (#43) runs to his deep 1/2 (blue box). The other ILB gains depth (#54 Moody).


The QB targets the quick out to the slot WR. Acker (CB at top of screen), is not playing man coverage as if cover1, so he's not going to turn his back and follow the Go route. Acker is not bailing like a cover3 1/3 defender. He's actually a flat zone defender and sees this the whole way.


It's actually Tampa2. The coverage disguise gives the QB a false read and baits the offense to attack a strong area of the defense. The flats of tampa2 is a strong area. Acker comes up and makes the easy tackle for +1 yard gain.

Thl, what a neat, easy to understand clip. Last yr I learned a little of what you were saying/teaching, this yr, it is easier. Thank you, man.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Thl, what a neat, easy to understand clip. Last yr I learned a little of what you were saying/teaching, this yr, it is easier. Thank you, man.

We're the only NFL message board that gets plays, and schemes broken down with such great detail

Originally posted by thl408:
This was posted in the gameday thread but it has a lot to do with Mangini so I'll copy it here as well. This is a play that alludes to what Manigni and the players are saying about causing confusion before the snap.

Base 3-4 personnel
One deep safety. There is a safety in the box. CBs up in press. There are only 3 DL at the line of scrimmage with both OLBs in the slot. Is there a 4th rusher?
A QB sees this presnap alignment and may think cover1 or cover3. To his right, there is a Fade/Out combination. Against either of these coverages (cover1/cover3), the Out route will work to attack the flat.


Ball is snapped and one of the ILBs is the 4th rusher. The box safety quickly gains depth to his deep 1/2 (blue arrow). The deep safety (#43) runs to his deep 1/2 (blue box). The other ILB gains depth (#54 Moody).


The QB targets the quick out to the slot WR. Acker (CB at top of screen), is not playing man coverage as if cover1, so he's not going to turn his back and follow the Go route. Acker is not bailing like a cover3 1/3 defender. He's actually a flat zone defender and sees this the whole way.


It's actually Tampa2. The coverage disguise gives the QB a false read and baits the offense to attack a strong area of the defense. The flats of tampa2 is a strong area. Acker comes up and makes the easy tackle for +1 yard gain.

Wow, that was an absolutely perfect illustration (great eye thl408) and thanks for posting. And this wasn't even a pre snap look where personnel is moved into different positions for added confusion (I always use the reference of Brooks lining up as a DT and then dropping back into the middle of the field for the pick-6 against NO).

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:
This was posted in the gameday thread but it has a lot to do with Mangini so I'll copy it here as well. This is a play that alludes to what Manigni and the players are saying about causing confusion before the snap.

Base 3-4 personnel
One deep safety. There is a safety in the box. CBs up in press. There are only 3 DL at the line of scrimmage with both OLBs in the slot. Is there a 4th rusher?
A QB sees this presnap alignment and may think cover1 or cover3. To his right, there is a Fade/Out combination. Against either of these coverages (cover1/cover3), the Out route will work to attack the flat.


Ball is snapped and one of the ILBs is the 4th rusher. The box safety quickly gains depth to his deep 1/2 (blue arrow). The deep safety (#43) runs to his deep 1/2 (blue box). The other ILB gains depth (#54 Moody).


The QB targets the quick out to the slot WR. Acker (CB at top of screen), is not playing man coverage as if cover1, so he's not going to turn his back and follow the Go route. Acker is not bailing like a cover3 1/3 defender. He's actually a flat zone defender and sees this the whole way.


It's actually Tampa2. The coverage disguise gives the QB a false read and baits the offense to attack a strong area of the defense. The flats of tampa2 is a strong area. Acker comes up and makes the easy tackle for +1 yard gain.

Wow, that was an absolutely perfect illustration (great eye thl408) and thanks for posting. And this wasn't even a pre snap look where personnel is moved into different positions for added confusion (I always use the reference of Brooks lining up as a DT and then dropping back into the middle of the field for the pick-6 against NO).

If the QB would've did a pump fake he probably could've hit the WR running deep

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:
If the QB would've did a pump fake he probably could've hit the WR running deep

And probably picked off by the FS.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:
If the QB would've did a pump fake he probably could've hit the WR running deep

And probably picked off by the FS.

ooops ..didnt see him