Eric Mangini Thread

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
lol why has this turned into a press coverage discussion? we were talking about 1 isolated game over a 4 year span not the entire philosophy of the coach lol

When you and NC made the following posts. Where NC referenced the "so much crap", he is referring to me and the conversation he and I had.

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
no doubt, NC, from a distance, we are double bat screwed. Put a magnifying glass on it, tho, and I like what I see....ok, laugh but I like us better than last yr. Minority opinion, but I feel really upbeat about our coaching staff. Last yr, I did not. and yes, the OL is stil l the big ??? But I like our OL better than last yr when we couldn't pass block. this yr, I think kap actually has a chance, in large part because our coaching staff is going to help coach around our OL weakness. Last yr OL couldn't pass bloc and that was that. This yr the coaches are going to try and coach around that weakness....exactly what I called for last yr... And it never happened. this yr there is hope.

And by 6-8 games in, watch bell and brown move to starters....Brown makes the rock that anchors the R side, and bell becomes that big TE that nobody can stop.

Well offensively I am excited because we won't be putting square pegs into round holes. Whatever is best for us is what we'll do and there wasn't a willingness to do that the past 4 years.

Defensively I was fine with Fangio except when he would wave the white flag and not do the simple things to win (Will not forgive him for bending over in Denver last year and allowing Peyton do to whatever he wanted.. no press coverage, no blitz just straight up back off let them run wild)

Mangini will not do that. He will not limit the players that play on game day. He will use everyone and keep everyone engaged. He will make adjustments and he is trying to take the ball away from them instead of trying to hold a team to as few points as possible and there is a difference.

I got so much crap for calling out Fangio's scheme that game.

You can see the BIG difference with Mangini and he was playing pretty vanilla against him and still worked him...6 points, got smashed, pressured, dove on the ground in the fetal position like a b!tch, hearing the footsteps, throwing up crappy passes, poor decision making, etc.

I was there with you.
Beat the opponent. Not hope for the best.

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
no that's not it at all.
if there is 1 thing you have to do against the broncos is redirect routes and put pressure on manning and i didn't see us make a real effort to try and do that all game.

the argument isn't that we didn't have all the personnel we needed to press. it's that we offered little tn no resistance in the form of pass rush bringing extra most of the time etc etc..

I was speaking specifically to press bump and run and how you and NC wanted to see it versus DEN (I bolded it above). If you are referencing more blitzes, then I will agree with you on that. I was chillin until you guys brought up last year's game and how much "crap" you were given from me.

ok just to clear up a few things.
1. I was talking more on the blitz side in that game because our pass rush wasn't up to par so no pass rush and then zone cushion = career game and i didn't see him try to adjust or do anything about it and it pissed me off.
2. I wasn't referring to you giving me crap about that particular game mainly because i complained about that game in the proper thread, the vic fangio thread lol. i usually go to the correct source and comment and it was mighty lonely in there. i didn't comment on your cut up of the game to my knowledge but my comments weren't about you personally. me and you have had a pretty good relationship on here.
3. our biggest plays came off the blitz. he had imo the 2 best blitzing linebackers in the nfl- timing, ability speed quickness nobody was better and they were rarely utilized in that way.
Bowman in limited action already looks like an all pro again and on pace to get like 12 sacks this year just off of blitzing lol.

hope that clears things up a bit

Originally posted by NCommand:
No worries thl408. I wasn't specifically talking about you...while we disagreed a bit at the time in philosophy/approach to game planning for Manning (press was part of it), there was another poster that REALLY went nuts over this topic IIRC. It wasn't you for sure though. You made and still make a sound point esp. in context.

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
ok just to clear up a few things.
1. I was talking more on the blitz side in that game because our pass rush wasn't up to par so no pass rush and then zone cushion = career game and i didn't see him try to adjust or do anything about it and it pissed me off.
2. I wasn't referring to you giving me crap about that particular game mainly because i complained about that game in the proper thread, the vic fangio thread lol. i usually go to the correct source and comment and it was mighty lonely in there. i didn't comment on your cut up of the game to my knowledge but my comments weren't about you personally. me and you have had a pretty good relationship on here.
3. our biggest plays came off the blitz. he had imo the 2 best blitzing linebackers in the nfl- timing, ability speed quickness nobody was better and they were rarely utilized in that way.
Bowman in limited action already looks like an all pro again and on pace to get like 12 sacks this year just off of blitzing lol.

hope that clears things up a bit

Discussing gameplans is what we love talking about so it's all good. We just differ on some things. Blitzing more in that DEN game is not one of them. I agree throwing in a few blitzes could have disrupted some things and I don't think that was done.

It will be exciting to see Mangini crank up the pressure as a change up tactic within a game rather than a fallback plan. If the CBs aren't able to handle it, it will be interesting to see how he adjusts.

Originally posted by thl408:
Discussing gameplans is what we love talking about so it's all good. We just differ on some things. Blitzing more in that DEN game is not one of them. I agree throwing in a few blitzes could have disrupted some things and I don't think that was done.

It will be exciting to see Mangini crank up the pressure as a change up tactic within a game rather than a fallback plan. If the CBs aren't able to handle it, it will be interesting to see how he adjusts.

Same! I'm really excited to see how he disguises both his blitzers and coverages. Even more so, I'm curious to see how he does this without sacrificing personnel on the back end (i.e. leaving players out on an island). I'm sure you'll be all over that one thl.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Same! I'm really excited to see how he disguises both his blitzers and coverages. Even more so, I'm curious to see how he does this without sacrificing personnel on the back end (i.e. leaving players out on an island). I'm sure you'll be all over that one thl.

For sure. I am equally as intrigued by the new offense as I am by the new defense. Can't wait to see how Mangini will play his defensive backfield. From scheme to utilization of personnel.

Originally posted by thl408:
Discussing gameplans is what we love talking about so it's all good. We just differ on some things. Blitzing more in that DEN game is not one of them. I agree throwing in a few blitzes could have disrupted some things and I don't think that was done.

It will be exciting to see Mangini crank up the pressure as a change up tactic within a game rather than a fallback plan. If the CBs aren't able to handle it, it will be interesting to see how he adjusts.

i think his entire thing is the offense is going to have to guess and feel they only have a 50% chance of guessing right. is he going to blitz or is he going to play coverage? it looks like blitz but then he played coverage the last 2 times but if we call a coverage protection and its a blitz we're screwed.

those are the types of situations im looking forward to offenses struggling to figure out

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Same! I'm really excited to see how he disguises both his blitzers and coverages. Even more so, I'm curious to see how he does this without sacrificing personnel on the back end (i.e. leaving players out on an island). I'm sure you'll be all over that one thl.

For sure. I am equally as intrigued by the new offense as I am by the new defense. Can't wait to see how Mangini will play his defensive backfield. From scheme to utilization of personnel.

QFT!!! I have some inclining on both fronts that have me feeling like it's Christmas in anticipation...just praying there is no coal in our stockings!

Originally posted by NCommand:
I got so much crap for calling out Fangio's scheme that game.

You can see the BIG difference with Mangini and he was playing pretty vanilla against him and still worked him...6 points, got smashed, pressured, dove on the ground in the fetal position like a b!tch, hearing the footsteps, throwing up crappy passes, poor decision making, etc.

Well Mangini and Peyton do have an history against each other

As is the case this season as has been the past 4 seasons, I'm not concerned about the defense even if its not Fangio anymore. Mangini was a DC before and was pretty good and he has the talent there to make his system work. The offense again is the concern for me. I don't think the defense will score much but I think they will make their stops and maybe get an INT here and there but can Kaep do something with it? Thats the question!!!!

Originally posted by Baldie:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I got so much crap for calling out Fangio's scheme that game.

You can see the BIG difference with Mangini and he was playing pretty vanilla against him and still worked him...6 points, got smashed, pressured, dove on the ground in the fetal position like a b!tch, hearing the footsteps, throwing up crappy passes, poor decision making, etc.

Well Mangini and Peyton do have an history against each other

That could serve us well someday...a like-QB who relies on timing (Brady, Mannings, Rodgers, Brees, etc.)

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Quick question, when Mangini was DC in New England did the CB's play press coverage in his defense, I could've sworn Asante Samuel making all those big plays in zone coverage??

lol why has this turned into a press coverage discussion? we were talking about 1 isolated game over a 4 year span not the entire philosophy of the coach lol

Well I'm not trying to add to your discussion and I'm asking outta curiosity.

Again with the attitude.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Quick question, when Mangini was DC in New England did the CB's play press coverage in his defense, I could've sworn Asante Samuel making all those big plays in zone coverage??

lol why has this turned into a press coverage discussion? we were talking about 1 isolated game over a 4 year span not the entire philosophy of the coach lol

Well I'm not trying to add to your discussion and I'm asking outta curiosity.

Again with the attitude.

i don't have one was just curious.
magini is planning on keeping the back end the same as vic had it from what ive read. meaning mixing up zone and man and pattern matching, all things any corner who's been on this team for more than a year is familiar with.

the only difference is the multiple safety look that he will trot out there in nickel and dime coverage

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Same! I'm really excited to see how he disguises both his blitzers and coverages. Even more so, I'm curious to see how he does this without sacrificing personnel on the back end (i.e. leaving players out on an island). I'm sure you'll be all over that one thl.

For sure. I am equally as intrigued by the new offense as I am by the new defense. Can't wait to see how Mangini will play his defensive backfield. From scheme to utilization of personnel.

This. Very excited to see how personnel on both sides are used once we are game planning each & every week for different teams & schemes. This will be very exciting to watch itself play out!

Originally posted by tohara3:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Same! I'm really excited to see how he disguises both his blitzers and coverages. Even more so, I'm curious to see how he does this without sacrificing personnel on the back end (i.e. leaving players out on an island). I'm sure you'll be all over that one thl.

For sure. I am equally as intrigued by the new offense as I am by the new defense. Can't wait to see how Mangini will play his defensive backfield. From scheme to utilization of personnel.

This. Very excited to see how personnel on both sides are used once we are game planning each & every week for different teams & schemes. This will be very exciting to watch itself play out!

can only imagine how much more exciting this D could be if they still had their dominant pass rusher

Originally posted by NCommand:
Thanks for the research. No doubt size can certainly be an asset for sure in press (or electric make-up speed), that is just one aspect to being an effective press CB. It's a bit of a moot point b/c we're not going to run press exclusively. You'll see various personnel matchups, you'll see CB's lined up in press and then back off just before the snap and the reverse, you'll see press with a clean release, you'll see a CB square up and one-arm jam a WR...two arm jam and attack the WR like Browner in the Superbowl on the INT, you'll see one CB in press and the other in off coverage, etc. And then there is technique...HOW the CB not only presses but where he lines up within it (scheme/tactics). There's a lot more that goes into it than just size or speed...but it CAN certainly help. The good news is that both Johnson and Acker have gone on record saying that they both love press. And IIRC, I believe thl408 has recognized Brock overall as a good press CB too? Maybe not...not 100% sure about that. And not sure about Ward or Reaser...small sample size on both.

What are your thoughts on Brock, Ward and Reaser...maybe Wright too? Obviously we both can probably agree that Acker and Johnson are our best fits for more press than not.

Brock is a very good corner. I think he is as good as culliver but smarter. His instincts are good at he plays the ball in the air. He allows a little more space than I would like because he doesnt have elite speed but makes up for it with instincts and going for the ball is it comes down.

Ward is hard to judge because I think he was forced to do too much too early. hes 5'11" 193 average nfl corner size. runs a 4.47 He will need exceptional instincts to actually put himself near the top of the nfls corners (his ceiling is what I think brock is but without the injuries hopefully). I expect most of the top receivers to dominate him the same way marshall did with his inexperience.

Reaser also seems very good judging from his preseason performances so far. He stays on his man and gets his head around. He is close enough when running with his man to disrupt the route timing without getting flagged (He sometimes makes "incidental contact" while playing the ball). Thats really the best he can play it. Corners should literally be touching their man while running with him to make it nearly impossible for them to run at their normal practice speed (if they are not going to shove them down off the line and completely ruin the route from the start). This has to be done sneaky enough to not be noticed by the ref. Reaser seems to have this figured out.

Wright is bad. Often looks lost. Is 5"11 183 so below average measurables. runs a 4.46 basically the same as ward with 10lbs less muscle.

Would've loved to see what Mangini could've done with a LB core of Brooks, Willis or Borland, Bowman, and Smith.