Dashon Goldson

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

SEA has been at the top of penalties and they have Thomas and Kam as thumpers and are routinely number one D in the league.

When Kam was homding out that D lost its edge.

To play a nasty ferocious intimidating D, you're gonna have some penalties along with it.

Yet both those guys excel in coverage. You saw what happened to their defense early in the season when Kam came back from his holdout and was having uncharacteristic lapses in coverage.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

SEA has been at the top of penalties and they have Thomas and Kam as thumpers and are routinely number one D in the league.

When Kam was homding out that D lost its edge.

To play a nasty ferocious intimidating D, you're gonna have some penalties along with it.

Yet both those guys excel in coverage. You saw what happened to their defense early in the season when Kam came back from his holdout and was having uncharacteristic lapses in coverage.

Kam isn't very good in coverage. He never was.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 4everFaithful:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 4everFaithful:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by crake49:

I still say that it should be obvious to fans that the NFL is trying to phase out 'enforcing' as a way of playing the position. My 'eye test' over the last few years tells me that Reid is faster, recognizes routes quicker and is usually closer to a given receiver than Goldson was. The stats say that last year, Reid was credited with 7 passes defended and Goldson was credited with 3 passes defended.

The rules are making guys like Goldson relics. Big hitter but often lost in coverage. Meanwhile Whitner, who was clearly the more cerebral player to go along with being a big hitter has continued to play well with the Browns while Goldson has gone off a cliff.




If you remember, Whitner was the guy making calls on the back end and often was visibly showing frustration with Goldson being out of position.


If I need to make a 1980s throwback team, I'll take Goldson....otherwise give me Reid.

This just isint true.. Goldson struggled with the buccaneers but he is coming off a tremendous season with the redskins, that is being overlooked by a majority of you

lol tremendous? Based on what?

Is this chart all you look at when evaluating talent??

Did you even take the time to watch Goldson play this yr?

I watched Goldson up close for 6 years. Ive seen enough. PFF scouted every one of his plays last year, so ill trust their word over generic tackle totals or INT's. Football is SO much more than simple counting stats.

Thats the thing, people love to critisize PFF because it makes their opinions look bad, yet nobody ever has an answer for WHY PFF isnt accurate, or what is a better system to use.

Goldson graded out at -12.9 last year, which is about on par with the rest of his career. Some people just refuse to admit hes not a good player, even though the grades are right there. PFF isnt 100% accurate, but when youve totaled a -66.0 career grade, it makes the argument that Goldson is a "great" player pretty laughable.

This is what you fail to understand, you claim PFF isint 100% accurate, yet you use it as 100% of your argument.. you claim tackles and INTs dont matter... and u didnt even watch goldson play a snap with the redskins this season

Originally posted by 4everFaithful:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 4everFaithful:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 4everFaithful:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by crake49:

I still say that it should be obvious to fans that the NFL is trying to phase out 'enforcing' as a way of playing the position. My 'eye test' over the last few years tells me that Reid is faster, recognizes routes quicker and is usually closer to a given receiver than Goldson was. The stats say that last year, Reid was credited with 7 passes defended and Goldson was credited with 3 passes defended.

The rules are making guys like Goldson relics. Big hitter but often lost in coverage. Meanwhile Whitner, who was clearly the more cerebral player to go along with being a big hitter has continued to play well with the Browns while Goldson has gone off a cliff.




If you remember, Whitner was the guy making calls on the back end and often was visibly showing frustration with Goldson being out of position.


If I need to make a 1980s throwback team, I'll take Goldson....otherwise give me Reid.

This just isint true.. Goldson struggled with the buccaneers but he is coming off a tremendous season with the redskins, that is being overlooked by a majority of you

lol tremendous? Based on what?

Is this chart all you look at when evaluating talent??

Did you even take the time to watch Goldson play this yr?

I watched Goldson up close for 6 years. Ive seen enough. PFF scouted every one of his plays last year, so ill trust their word over generic tackle totals or INT's. Football is SO much more than simple counting stats.

Thats the thing, people love to critisize PFF because it makes their opinions look bad, yet nobody ever has an answer for WHY PFF isnt accurate, or what is a better system to use.

Goldson graded out at -12.9 last year, which is about on par with the rest of his career. Some people just refuse to admit hes not a good player, even though the grades are right there. PFF isnt 100% accurate, but when youve totaled a -66.0 career grade, it makes the argument that Goldson is a "great" player pretty laughable.

This is what you fail to understand, you claim PFF isint 100% accurate, yet you use it as 100% of your argument.. you claim tackles and INTs dont matter... and u didnt even watch goldson play a snap with the redskins this season

OWNED

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Kam isn't very good in coverage. He never was.

I disagree. For a SS he has shown the ability to hold his own in coverage against TE's, RBs and slot receivers. This past season he really struggled and as a whole their entire defense struggled at times.

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

I believe having a thumping safety makes offensive guys weary and have alligator arms. At the minimum some guys are at least thinking about it, which effects their game.

That is certainly true. However, when that guy is focusing on a big hit rather than wrapping up the opponent, and winds up missing the tackle, the intimidation factor has less value.

I recall a lot of his big hits, and some were spectacular. I also remember the times his dumb penalties kept drives alive that cost us games.

On balance, I would give him a negative grade. I was not unhappy to see him leave.

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by baltien:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

We are missing Goldson's intimidation factor. Players would have to make business decisions when going over the middle against him. And they did.

Yea. The Ravens were so scared of him in the Super Bowl. Seriously, all this "intimidation factor" stuff is nonsense. Our safeties were routinely torched in playoff games and Goldson was a big part of that.

The occasional highlight reel hit isnt enough to cover up his flaws in coverage.

I didn't say we missed his coverage skills.

I believe having a thumping safety makes offensive guys weary and have alligator arms. At the minimum some guys are at least thinking about it, which effects their game.

I understood your post. To put it another way, it's pretty obvious that his big hits aren't that much of a factor if he's still routinely getting burned.

Again, I point you to any Niners playoff game during the Harbaugh era. Goldson was "ok" provided the play was in front of him. Once offenses realized that he nor Whitner could really defend the deep ball, it was bombs away.

I encourage you to go back and WATCH the tape instead of relying on your memory.

He's garbage.

Originally posted by CityKing415:

Originally posted by 4everFaithful:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 4everFaithful:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 4everFaithful:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by crake49:

I still say that it should be obvious to fans that the NFL is trying to phase out 'enforcing' as a way of playing the position. My 'eye test' over the last few years tells me that Reid is faster, recognizes routes quicker and is usually closer to a given receiver than Goldson was. The stats say that last year, Reid was credited with 7 passes defended and Goldson was credited with 3 passes defended.

The rules are making guys like Goldson relics. Big hitter but often lost in coverage. Meanwhile Whitner, who was clearly the more cerebral player to go along with being a big hitter has continued to play well with the Browns while Goldson has gone off a cliff.




If you remember, Whitner was the guy making calls on the back end and often was visibly showing frustration with Goldson being out of position.


If I need to make a 1980s throwback team, I'll take Goldson....otherwise give me Reid.

This just isint true.. Goldson struggled with the buccaneers but he is coming off a tremendous season with the redskins, that is being overlooked by a majority of you

lol tremendous? Based on what?

Is this chart all you look at when evaluating talent??

Did you even take the time to watch Goldson play this yr?

I watched Goldson up close for 6 years. Ive seen enough. PFF scouted every one of his plays last year, so ill trust their word over generic tackle totals or INT's. Football is SO much more than simple counting stats.

Thats the thing, people love to critisize PFF because it makes their opinions look bad, yet nobody ever has an answer for WHY PFF isnt accurate, or what is a better system to use.

Goldson graded out at -12.9 last year, which is about on par with the rest of his career. Some people just refuse to admit hes not a good player, even though the grades are right there. PFF isnt 100% accurate, but when youve totaled a -66.0 career grade, it makes the argument that Goldson is a "great" player pretty laughable.

This is what you fail to understand, you claim PFF isint 100% accurate, yet you use it as 100% of your argument.. you claim tackles and INTs dont matter... and u didnt even watch goldson play a snap with the redskins this season

OWNED

lol NOTHING is 100% accurate, but PFF is WAY closer to it than tackle and INT totals.

I didnt watch Goldson this year, but guess who did? The PFF scouts. Every single snap. But keep going on about how great Goldson was because of his tackles.

BTW, PFF might not be good enough for your "advanced" system of using NFL.com counting stats, but its good enough for NFL front offices and agents to use in actual contract negotiations.

The anti-PFF people on this board sound like a 90 year old man giving his opinion on technology. "Back in my day, a player was only as good as his total number of tackles!" Ok grandpa, keep telling me about how great Dashon Goldson is because of all his flashy shoulder tackles.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

If I need to make a 1980s throwback team, I'll take Goldson....otherwise give me Reid.

If it's going to be an '80's throwback team, I'd have to go with the Niners Godfather of enforcers, Ronnie Lott.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by CityKing415:

Originally posted by 4everFaithful:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 4everFaithful:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 4everFaithful:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by crake49:

I still say that it should be obvious to fans that the NFL is trying to phase out 'enforcing' as a way of playing the position. My 'eye test' over the last few years tells me that Reid is faster, recognizes routes quicker and is usually closer to a given receiver than Goldson was. The stats say that last year, Reid was credited with 7 passes defended and Goldson was credited with 3 passes defended.

The rules are making guys like Goldson relics. Big hitter but often lost in coverage. Meanwhile Whitner, who was clearly the more cerebral player to go along with being a big hitter has continued to play well with the Browns while Goldson has gone off a cliff.




If you remember, Whitner was the guy making calls on the back end and often was visibly showing frustration with Goldson being out of position.


If I need to make a 1980s throwback team, I'll take Goldson....otherwise give me Reid.

This just isint true.. Goldson struggled with the buccaneers but he is coming off a tremendous season with the redskins, that is being overlooked by a majority of you

lol tremendous? Based on what?

Is this chart all you look at when evaluating talent??

Did you even take the time to watch Goldson play this yr?

I watched Goldson up close for 6 years. Ive seen enough. PFF scouted every one of his plays last year, so ill trust their word over generic tackle totals or INT's. Football is SO much more than simple counting stats.

Thats the thing, people love to critisize PFF because it makes their opinions look bad, yet nobody ever has an answer for WHY PFF isnt accurate, or what is a better system to use.

Goldson graded out at -12.9 last year, which is about on par with the rest of his career. Some people just refuse to admit hes not a good player, even though the grades are right there. PFF isnt 100% accurate, but when youve totaled a -66.0 career grade, it makes the argument that Goldson is a "great" player pretty laughable.

This is what you fail to understand, you claim PFF isint 100% accurate, yet you use it as 100% of your argument.. you claim tackles and INTs dont matter... and u didnt even watch goldson play a snap with the redskins this season

OWNED

lol NOTHING is 100% accurate, but PFF is WAY closer to it than tackle and INT totals.

I didnt watch Goldson this year, but guess who did? The PFF scouts. Every single snap. But keep going on about how great Goldson was because of his tackles.

BTW, PFF might not be good enough for your "advanced" system of using NFL.com counting stats, but its good enough for NFL front offices and agents to use in actual contract negotiations.

The anti-PFF people on this board sound like a 90 year old man giving his opinion on technology. "Back in my day, a player was only as good as his total number of tackles!" Ok grandpa, keep telling me about how great Dashon Goldson is because of all his flashy shoulder tackles.

Than how can you talk?? I have Sunday ticket, I actually watched goldson, im not just talking out my ass and posting the same picture over and over again and claiming that PFF is the only thing you need in order to evaluate talent... you think scouts only look at that chart?? They also watch players practice and play in live games.. they dont just look at a peice of paper... they take in account PFF, tackles, INTs, and passes deflected.. as well as other statistics..

Originally posted by 4everFaithful:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 4everFaithful:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by crake49:
I still say that it should be obvious to fans that the NFL is trying to phase out 'enforcing' as a way of playing the position. My 'eye test' over the last few years tells me that Reid is faster, recognizes routes quicker and is usually closer to a given receiver than Goldson was. The stats say that last year, Reid was credited with 7 passes defended and Goldson was credited with 3 passes defended.

The rules are making guys like Goldson relics. Big hitter but often lost in coverage. Meanwhile Whitner, who was clearly the more cerebral player to go along with being a big hitter has continued to play well with the Browns while Goldson has gone off a cliff.




If you remember, Whitner was the guy making calls on the back end and often was visibly showing frustration with Goldson being out of position.


If I need to make a 1980s throwback team, I'll take Goldson....otherwise give me Reid.

This just isint true.. Goldson struggled with the buccaneers but he is coming off a tremendous season with the redskins, that is being overlooked by a majority of you

lol tremendous? Based on what?

Is this chart all you look at when evaluating talent??

Did you even take the time to watch Goldson play this yr?

yeah and by many he was regarded a good leader, but the secondary was the issue with the red skins, they got torched all year. Dashon has struggled mightily since leaving sf.

Originally posted by philosoraptor:

Originally posted by 4everFaithful:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 4everFaithful:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by crake49:

I still say that it should be obvious to fans that the NFL is trying to phase out 'enforcing' as a way of playing the position. My 'eye test' over the last few years tells me that Reid is faster, recognizes routes quicker and is usually closer to a given receiver than Goldson was. The stats say that last year, Reid was credited with 7 passes defended and Goldson was credited with 3 passes defended.

The rules are making guys like Goldson relics. Big hitter but often lost in coverage. Meanwhile Whitner, who was clearly the more cerebral player to go along with being a big hitter has continued to play well with the Browns while Goldson has gone off a cliff.




If you remember, Whitner was the guy making calls on the back end and often was visibly showing frustration with Goldson being out of position.


If I need to make a 1980s throwback team, I'll take Goldson....otherwise give me Reid.

This just isint true.. Goldson struggled with the buccaneers but he is coming off a tremendous season with the redskins, that is being overlooked by a majority of you

lol tremendous? Based on what?

Is this chart all you look at when evaluating talent??

Did you even take the time to watch Goldson play this yr?

yeah and by many he was regarded a good leader, but the secondary was the issue with the red skins, they got torched all year. Dashon has struggled mightily since leaving sf.

Who are the redskins corners?

Goldson obviously is adjusting to the teams defenses... maybe he's being asked to play differently... It's not like the guy is a Ronnie Lott or a Rod Woodson, he was a very good FS for us and woulda been better staying here, than or over Reid.

Originally posted by 4everFaithful:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by CityKing415:

Originally posted by 4everFaithful:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 4everFaithful:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by 4everFaithful:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by crake49:

I still say that it should be obvious to fans that the NFL is trying to phase out 'enforcing' as a way of playing the position. My 'eye test' over the last few years tells me that Reid is faster, recognizes routes quicker and is usually closer to a given receiver than Goldson was. The stats say that last year, Reid was credited with 7 passes defended and Goldson was credited with 3 passes defended.

The rules are making guys like Goldson relics. Big hitter but often lost in coverage. Meanwhile Whitner, who was clearly the more cerebral player to go along with being a big hitter has continued to play well with the Browns while Goldson has gone off a cliff.




If you remember, Whitner was the guy making calls on the back end and often was visibly showing frustration with Goldson being out of position.


If I need to make a 1980s throwback team, I'll take Goldson....otherwise give me Reid.

This just isint true.. Goldson struggled with the buccaneers but he is coming off a tremendous season with the redskins, that is being overlooked by a majority of you

lol tremendous? Based on what?

Is this chart all you look at when evaluating talent??

Did you even take the time to watch Goldson play this yr?

I watched Goldson up close for 6 years. Ive seen enough. PFF scouted every one of his plays last year, so ill trust their word over generic tackle totals or INT's. Football is SO much more than simple counting stats.

Thats the thing, people love to critisize PFF because it makes their opinions look bad, yet nobody ever has an answer for WHY PFF isnt accurate, or what is a better system to use.

Goldson graded out at -12.9 last year, which is about on par with the rest of his career. Some people just refuse to admit hes not a good player, even though the grades are right there. PFF isnt 100% accurate, but when youve totaled a -66.0 career grade, it makes the argument that Goldson is a "great" player pretty laughable.

This is what you fail to understand, you claim PFF isint 100% accurate, yet you use it as 100% of your argument.. you claim tackles and INTs dont matter... and u didnt even watch goldson play a snap with the redskins this season

OWNED

lol NOTHING is 100% accurate, but PFF is WAY closer to it than tackle and INT totals.

I didnt watch Goldson this year, but guess who did? The PFF scouts. Every single snap. But keep going on about how great Goldson was because of his tackles.

BTW, PFF might not be good enough for your "advanced" system of using NFL.com counting stats, but its good enough for NFL front offices and agents to use in actual contract negotiations.

The anti-PFF people on this board sound like a 90 year old man giving his opinion on technology. "Back in my day, a player was only as good as his total number of tackles!" Ok grandpa, keep telling me about how great Dashon Goldson is because of all his flashy shoulder tackles.

Than how can you talk?? I have Sunday ticket, I actually watched goldson, im not just talking out my ass and posting the same picture over and over again and claiming that PFF is the only thing you need in order to evaluate talent... you think scouts only look at that chart?? They also watch players practice and play in live games.. they dont just look at a peice of paper... they take in account PFF, tackles, INTs, and passes deflected.. as well as other statistics..

Im not talking. PFF is talking. They did the research. More than you or me. If you want to call your own two eyes a better judge than the PFF scouts, go right ahead.

He graded out as a -12.9 last season overall, and a -66.0 for his career total. Either PFF is making stuff up, and has NO idea what theyre looking at, or Dashon Goldson isnt a good football player. Ill go with their opinion over someone who thinks total tackles, and INT's are the best judge of ability.

BTW, a S getting a ton of tackles isnt always a good thing. It means the D was on the field a lot, and teams were running the ball a lot. It also means they were throwing Goldson's way a lot, because he sucks in coverage. A tackle after youve allowed a 30 yard reception is worthless. A tackle when the RB just blasted his way into the secondary isnt worth much either.

INT are opportunities that vary from year to year. A shutdown corner wont have as many, because he isnt tested nearly as often. INT's are often tipped passes, which often arent in the DB's control. Sometimes the WR misses the ball and it bounces off his chest. Sometimes the QB throws a hail mary at the half or end of the game, that likely will get picked. You cant rely on Interceptions as a barometer for elite DB play. There are so many variables that go into them.