Dashon Goldson

Originally posted by insanemike27:

Again, discrediting anything that doesn't fit into the narrative. We don't judge who was better by cherry picking stats during certain time frames. When someone asks me who's better, I'm judging them by the body of work over an entire career. I'm not even saying Goldson was a great FS. I'm just saying that as of today Goldson has had the better career.

Originally posted by insanemike27:

Not just stats but you discredit the pro bowl and all pro nominations. If it don't fit your narrative, you discredit it.

Does Reid have the potential to have a better career than Goldson? Yes. Will He? Remains to be seen.

IMO and many others, as of today, Goldson has had the better career so far.

Pro Bowl and All-Pro selections are opinions. They arent quantified by anything but how a group of writers saw that season. I dont have a "narrative". Im just using my personal opinion about Goldson, and then presenting PFF's info. I dont have a problem with Goldson, he was just overrated.

Players have a perceived value, and an actual value. Those dont always line up.

Eric Reid made the Pro Bowl in 2013, and I still called him a mediocre player. Im downplaying those honors for both, and just looking at ability.

This isnt an argument praising Eric Reid, or hating Dashon Goldson. Im just saying, Goldson has a truly awful career grade on PFF, so either PFF is a bunch of morons who dont know football, or Goldson was bad. There is no other answer. -66.0 is a LONG way from "great player". Which is it?

Originally posted by insanemike27:

They've both averaged about the same amount of turnovers if you account for forces fumbles. But lets leave that stat out because it doesn't fit your narrative. Goldson has averaged more tackles per season than Reid over the course of their respective careers. Reid has averaged more passes defensed than Goldson though. But if I were a reciever going over the middle, I would be alot more worried if Goldson was in coverage than if Reid were.

Lol fit my narrative give it a rest...

Goldson has avg 51.6 tackles 1.6 INTs a year

Reid has avg 64 tackles and 2.3 INTs a year

And goldson avg .5 more FF over Reid...yeah a WR will be worried about getting is head taken off then getting a 15 yard PI. This league is about having good coverage skills not taken off heads.

Originally posted by 4everFaithful:

Originally posted by insanemike27:

Again, discrediting anything that doesn't fit into the narrative. We don't judge who was better by cherry picking stats during certain time frames. When someone asks me who's better, I'm judging them by the body of work over an entire career. I'm not even saying Goldson was a great FS. I'm just saying that as of today Goldson has had the better career.

Lol but if your looking at the numbers he hasn't

Originally posted by 4everFaithful:

Originally posted by insanemike27:

Niners99- You say that Goldson's pff score isn't your only argument and then never use any other measuring stick to validate it. Instead you discredit every other measuring device that has been used against your argument.

EXACTLY

Who has avg more tackles and INTs on a per year basis?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GoldDa99.htm

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/ReidEr00.htm

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by insanemike27:

Not just stats but you discredit the pro bowl and all pro nominations. If it don't fit your narrative, you discredit it.

Does Reid have the potential to have a better career than Goldson? Yes. Will He? Remains to be seen.

IMO and many others, as of today, Goldson has had the better career so far.

Pro Bowl and All-Pro selections are opinions. They arent quantified by anything but how a group of writers saw that season. I dont have a "narrative". Im just using my personal opinion about Goldson, and then presenting PFF's info. I dont have a problem with Goldson, he was just overrated.

Players have a perceived value, and an actual value. Those dont always line up.

Eric Reid made the Pro Bowl in 2013, and I still called him a mediocre player. Im downplaying those honors for both, and just looking at ability.

This isnt an argument praising Eric Reid, or hating Dashon Goldson. Im just saying, Goldson has a truly awful career grade on PFF, so either PFF is a bunch of morons who dont know football, or Goldson was bad. There is no other answer. -66.0 is a LONG way from "great player". Which is it?

Totally agree

71> 29

Goldson would wreck recievers/ball carriers. Reid ducks recievers and gets trucked by scatbacks. Oh and neither of them cover very well but Dashon night and Day the better player Sin Duda

Originally posted by ElephantHaley:

Goldson would wreck recievers/ball carriers. Reid ducks recievers and gets trucked by scatbacks. Oh and neither of them cover very well but Dashon night and Day the better player Sin Duda

Disagree that Goldson is a better FS overall but i wouldn't exspect you to say a Baalke pick was better...

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by insanemike27:

Not just stats but you discredit the pro bowl and all pro nominations. If it don't fit your narrative, you discredit it.

Does Reid have the potential to have a better career than Goldson? Yes. Will He? Remains to be seen.

IMO and many others, as of today, Goldson has had the better career so far.

Pro Bowl and All-Pro selections are opinions. They arent quantified by anything but how a group of writers saw that season. I dont have a "narrative". Im just using my personal opinion about Goldson, and then presenting PFF's info. I dont have a problem with Goldson, he was just overrated.

Players have a perceived value, and an actual value. Those dont always line up.

Eric Reid made the Pro Bowl in 2013, and I still called him a mediocre player. Im downplaying those honors for both, and just looking at ability.

This isnt an argument praising Eric Reid, or hating Dashon Goldson. Im just saying, Goldson has a truly awful career grade on PFF, so either PFF is a bunch of morons who dont know football, or Goldson was bad. There is no other answer. -66.0 is a LONG way from "great player". Which is it?

Totally agree

We could throw stats and accolades at each other all day long and we still wouldn't convince each other to change opinion. The fact of the matter is that it's all opinion oriented. Neither player has been light years ahead of the other in their respective careers and so the argument really is that some people like Reid better and/or dislike Goldson more and vice versa.

The fact of the matter is that I hope Reid takes that next step and makes this argument meaningless but up to this point our first round pick at FS hasn't lived up to his draft status.

Originally posted by insanemike27:

We could throw stats and accolades at each other all day long and we still wouldn't convince each other to change opinion. The fact of the matter is that it's all opinion oriented. Neither player has been light years ahead of the other in their respective careers and so the argument really is that some people like Reid better and/or dislike Goldson more and vice versa.

The fact of the matter is that I hope Reid takes that next step and makes this argument meaningless but up to this point our first round pick at FS hasn't lived up to his draft status.

One pro-bowl in three years is not awful...the 2nd year he delt with concussions and let's be honest everyone played bad last year based on poor coaching and lack of talent around. IMO I thought mangini was awful as DC.

Either way you look at it this team HAS to get better in the front 7....look at the stud safeties in the league like Thomas and berry they both have stud front 7s.

Also I'm not trying to argue but look at Goldson's team around him when he was here...Willis and Bow in there prime, a healthy j smith and Ray Mac, Brooks actually playing and Aldon smith, plus throw in pro bowler hitner. Once Goldson left to get paid it showed.


I'll take a younger Reid with better coverage skills at $4million less.

I did not say that Reid was aweful. I just said that he hasn't lived up to expectations. I've seen him get beat a few times over the top for TD's while trailing the WR. So don't pretend like he hasn't had his breakdowns in coverage also.

I do agree that our front 7 needs to be revamped and think that both our lines need to be a priority come FA and the draft, if we want to become a competitive team again.

Like I've stated earlier in this thread, it was the right time to move on from Goldson when we did. Because the league was really starting to crack down on his style of play and he certainly wasn't worth his asking price. However, it is yet to be seen whether Reid will live up to his potential which has a higher ceiling than Goldson's but has yet to surpass it. That's all I'm trying to get across.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by ElephantHaley:
Goldson would wreck recievers/ball carriers. Reid ducks recievers and gets trucked by scatbacks. Oh and neither of them cover very well but Dashon night and Day the better player Sin Duda

Disagree that Goldson is a better FS overall but i wouldn't exspect you to say a Baalke pick was better...

Dashon has created way more turnovers and had made a much much bigger impact whether you like it or not. What has Reid ever done in his 3 years as a 49er?? Reid will never see a contract like Dashon got 5 years $40 million.

Originally posted by insanemike27:

I did not say that Reid was aweful. I just said that he hasn't lived up to expectations. I've seen him get beat a few times over the top for TD's while trailing the WR. So don't pretend like he hasn't had his breakdowns in coverage also.

I do agree that our front 7 needs to be revamped and think that both our lines need to be a priority come FA and the draft, if we want to become a competitive team again.

Like I've stated earlier in this thread, it was the right time to move on from Goldson when we did. Because the league was really starting to crack down on his style of play and he certainly wasn't worth his asking price. However, it is yet to be seen whether Reid will live up to his potential which has a higher ceiling than Goldson's but has yet to surpass it. That's all I'm trying to get across.

Never said he didn't get beat every once in a while...how has he not surpassed Goldson? He's avg more tackles and INTs per season compared to Goldson along with not having the same quality of player around him (including coaching staff) compared to Goldson.

If you don't think Reid is a better all around FS that's fine it's your opinion...I guess we will just agree to disagree

Originally posted by ElephantHaley:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by ElephantHaley:

Goldson would wreck recievers/ball carriers. Reid ducks recievers and gets trucked by scatbacks. Oh and neither of them cover very well but Dashon night and Day the better player Sin Duda

Disagree that Goldson is a better FS overall but i wouldn't exspect you to say a Baalke pick was better...

Dashon has created way more turnovers and had made a much much bigger impact whether you like it or not. What has Reid ever done in his 3 years as a 49er?? Reid will never see a contract like Dashon got 5 years $40 million.

Based on both their stats Reid has had more tackles and INTs per season compare to Goldson. Dashon avg .5 more FF per season...so no your actually wrong. We both know who's had more PI calls.

that contract was a horrible contract. He clearly wasn't worth the contract because he's not in Tampa anymore ...he was a fine player, but he should have given some of that cash to SFs front 7.