Jacksonville Jaguar Arik Armstead-DT Thread

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Giedi:
If you are going to spend. Spend it on edge rushers, not DT's

Tell that to Minnesota. Spending on the edges while largely neglecting the middle has left them a defense vulnerable to be run on all day. And Armstead has been able to play both on the edge and inside. He's been absolutely vital to this teams success. Having him and Buckner together is a luxury that the team can absolutely afford for at least the next few years. How many teams can throw out two 6'7" behemoths to stop the run and get after the QB? There's just no good logical or financial reasoning behind jettisoning Armstead just as he's hitting his potential.

yup, they don't need to spend top money on offense with Kyle here SO throw that cash on the DL where Kyle has stated you NEED talent.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
They can hold onto everyone.

Maybe for this year, then again, after the super bowl, everybody wants your guys and they will bid through the roof to get your guys to put butts in seats. The key to having a *dynasty* team - that consistently wins like the Pats have these past decades despite the cap is great player evaluations and great cap management. Anything less and you have a one shot wonder, basically.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Giedi:
If you are going to spend. Spend it on edge rushers, not DT's

Tell that to Minnesota. Spending on the edges while largely neglecting the middle has left them a defense vulnerable to be run on all day. And Armstead has been able to play both on the edge and inside. He's been absolutely vital to this teams success. Having him and Buckner together is a luxury that the team can absolutely afford for at least the next few years. How many teams can throw out two 6'7" behemoths to stop the run and get after the QB? There's just no good logical or financial reasoning behind jettisoning Armstead just as he's hitting his potential.

Ford and Bosa are the impact players, not Arik. Again, it's my opinion, but Arik is benefitting from Ford and Bosa and Buckner. Not the other way around. 49ers have done great in the later rounds getting solid DT's, and the point to that is -- as long as you have elite edge rushers, you will always be in the playoffs (as Minnesota was) as long as you have a *solid* defense and a decent offense. A solid defense means it doesn't have any weaknesses, but it also doesn't necessarily contain all pro personnel getting a good chunk of the cap space all along the front 7 or the back 4.

Go look at the past 49er defenses. The championship teams have always had either a Fred Dean or a Charles Haley, but can you name any of the DT's? You only need a very good, but not great DT next to your edge rusher to elevate that edge rusher to elite level, because the key to this defense is the blind side hits creating turnovers. That 's the signature name of the Siefert/carroll defense. Turnovers.

You're not spending on a DT or DE.

You are spending on continuity at the NFLs most lethal defensive competitive advantage.

Ford can't stay healthy...Arik is way better to keep for the long-term

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Giedi:

If you are going to spend. Spend it on edge rushers, not DT's

Tell that to Minnesota. Spending on the edges while largely neglecting the middle has left them a defense vulnerable to be run on all day. And Armstead has been able to play both on the edge and inside. He's been absolutely vital to this teams success. Having him and Buckner together is a luxury that the team can absolutely afford for at least the next few years. How many teams can throw out two 6'7" behemoths to stop the run and get after the QB? There's just no good logical or financial reasoning behind jettisoning Armstead just as he's hitting his potential.

You make a very good point.

This reminds me of when we had Willis and Bowman

You need a big picture view on how the unique combination of players impact the defense

AA is more than just a generic DT

His combination with Buckner against the run and pass are worth more together than the individual player.

Willis and Bowman...not just great LBs but combined they let our defense stay in base and gave us great run and pass defense at the same time.

As a bonus it also made it hard to gameplan or practice against because it was unique.

Buckner and AA are the same story just at DL

I wouldn't max out AA but I would go higher than a replacement if we got fair value.

Guaranteed money or something would be a creative way to keep his numbers low

Originally posted by Giedi:
Maybe for this year, then again, after the super bowl, everybody wants your guys and they will bid through the roof to get your guys to put butts in seats. The key to having a *dynasty* team - that consistently wins like the Pats have these past decades despite the cap is great player evaluations and great cap management. Anything less and you have a one shot wonder, basically.

2001 Patriots, key defensive players
Lawyer Milloy
Tedy Bruschi
Roman Phifer
Ty Law
Mike Vrabel
Richard Seymour
Willie McGinest

2003 Patriots, key defensive players
Rodney Harrison
Lawyer Milloy
Tedy Bruschi
Ty Warren
Willie McGinest
Roman Phifer
Ty Law
Mike Vrabel
Richard Seymour

2004 Patriots, key defensive players
Rodney Harrison
Ty Warren
Tedy Bruschi
Mike Vrabel
Richard Seymour
Willie McGinest
Vince Wilfork
Ty Law

2006 Patriots, key defensive players
Tedy Bruschi
Mike Vrabel
Ty Warren
Richard Seymour
Rodney Harrison
Vince Wilfork
Asante Samuel

2008 Patriots, key defensive players
Tedy Bruschi
Mike Vrabel
Richard Seymour
Ty Warren
Vince Wilfork
Rodney Harrison

Seems like they kept a key core group on their defense for a pretty lengthy time.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Ford and Bosa are the impact players, not Arik.

Usually the guy who leads the team in sacks has some impact.

Go look at the past 49er defenses. The championship teams have always had either a Fred Dean or a Charles Haley, but can you name any of the DT's? You only need a very good, but not great DT next to your edge rusher to elevate that edge rusher to elite level, because the key to this defense is the blind side hits creating turnovers. That 's the signature name of the Siefert/carroll defense. Turnovers.

Bryant Young? Dana Stubblefield? The 1994 defense didn't have a single dominant edge rusher and yet they were able still able to do damn well, riddle me that.

You're acting like there is only ONE way to win in the NFL and that just isn't true.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Ford and Bosa are the impact players, not Arik.

Usually the guy who leads the team in sacks has some impact.

Go look at the past 49er defenses. The championship teams have always had either a Fred Dean or a Charles Haley, but can you name any of the DT's? You only need a very good, but not great DT next to your edge rusher to elevate that edge rusher to elite level, because the key to this defense is the blind side hits creating turnovers. That 's the signature name of the Siefert/carroll defense. Turnovers.

Bryant Young? Dana Stubblefield? The 1994 defense didn't have a single dominant edge rusher and yet they were able still able to do damn well, riddle me that.

You're acting like there is only ONE way to win in the NFL and that just isn't true.

You're not wrong, but imo on this team the two ends make it go.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

You're not wrong, but imo on this team the two ends make it go.

On this team everyone makes it go. Its not like Ford is in there on run downs.


You don't have to look any further than Minnesota or San Diego last year to see where two outstanding ends and average to below average players inside gets you.


People are acting like the 49ers would have the exact same results without the outstanding play they've received from Buckner and Armstead.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

You're not wrong, but imo on this team the two ends make it go.

On this team everyone makes it go. Its not like Ford is in there on run downs.


You don't have to look any further than Minnesota or San Diego last year to see where two outstanding ends and average to below average players inside gets you.

I'm sorry, I meant the two ends elevate the defense. The entire line is championship caliber. But with ford and bosa it is downright unstoppable. We generate more pressure with 4 guys than most teams Do with blitzes lol

Originally posted by Giedi:

Maybe for this year, then again, after the super bowl, everybody wants your guys and they will bid through the roof to get your guys to put butts in seats. The key to having a *dynasty* team - that consistently wins like the Pats have these past decades despite the cap is great player evaluations and great cap management. Anything less and you have a one shot wonder, basically.

Gotta stop comparing the Pats to what we should do...Is Jimmy G gonna take 1/2 of what he should be getting paid, so they can pay for everyone else?

The Pats spend money. They're always towards the bottom of the cap every yr.

Do we get to play in the AFC east for a decade too? Lol those f**ker were guaranteed 6 wins and a playoff spot every yr just because of how bad that division has been

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
You're not wrong, but imo on this team the two ends make it go.

On this team everyone makes it go. Its not like Ford is in there on run downs.

You don't have to look any further than Minnesota or San Diego last year to see where two outstanding ends and average to below average players inside gets you.

People are acting like the 49ers would have the exact same results without the outstanding play they've received from Buckner and Armstead.

The whole defense is symbiotic.

The excellent DLine makes it easier for the secondary

The Quality secondary also give extra time to the DLine with outstanding coverage and

The LB's help both in run support and coverage

A DAMN GOOD DEFENSE!!

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Ford and Bosa are the impact players, not Arik.

Usually the guy who leads the team in sacks has some impact.

Go look at the past 49er defenses. The championship teams have always had either a Fred Dean or a Charles Haley, but can you name any of the DT's? You only need a very good, but not great DT next to your edge rusher to elevate that edge rusher to elite level, because the key to this defense is the blind side hits creating turnovers. That 's the signature name of the Siefert/carroll defense. Turnovers.

Bryant Young? Dana Stubblefield? The 1994 defense didn't have a single dominant edge rusher and yet they were able still able to do damn well, riddle me that.

You're acting like there is only ONE way to win in the NFL and that just isn't true.

I think it's a pretty good formula myself. The problem with the Seifert era was him shooting himself in the foot and trading Haley. It's a proven method of creating a super bowl defense, get players who can kill the QB. Once New England lost thier edge guys, they fell. Again, come back to my point, if you want long term success you have to manage the cap and get the best players you can get and fit all of them under the cap. That's really all I'm saying. If you dont do that and just blindly trying to keep your stars *without* paying great attention to the cap. It will eventually end your run.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Maybe for this year, then again, after the super bowl, everybody wants your guys and they will bid through the roof to get your guys to put butts in seats. The key to having a *dynasty* team - that consistently wins like the Pats have these past decades despite the cap is great player evaluations and great cap management. Anything less and you have a one shot wonder, basically.

Gotta stop comparing the Pats to what we should do...Is Jimmy G gonna take 1/2 of what he should be getting paid, so they can pay for everyone else?

The Pats spend money. They're always towards the bottom of the cap every yr.

Do we get to play in the AFC east for a decade too? Lol those f**ker were guaranteed 6 wins and a playoff spot every yr just because of how bad that division has been

You can only control what you can control. You cant dictate what sean mcvay does or what pete carrol does. You can only control your cap, your player evaluations. So if you dont do your best to control the cap and do good player evaluations, eventually your team will regress to mediocrity or worse.