Jacksonville Jaguar Arik Armstead-DT Thread

Originally posted by Izyniner:

Originally posted by AB81Rules:
I'd extend AA, give him a 4yr deal, lower his 2019 salary, give him upfront GTD RB, and 2020 base GTD for injury, with 2021 and 2022 being option years.

Ahhh AB where are you!!!!!

I've been a long time lurker but not overly sure.... did he disappear around the same time Buzz had his oopsie moment?

Originally posted by dj43:
His performance this year has clearly been that of a core player. He is also a complementary player to Bosa and Ford. Bosa already draws a lot of double teams, however, he would draw even more if AA was not a threat inside. Buckner also eats up a lot of double teams but all of that allows the others to exceed.

AA finished the season as the 3rd highest rated ER in the league, tied with Za'Darius Smith, fractionally higher than Bosa. That is the level of player we are talking about here. To consider letting him leave via anything other than a trade for someone of equal value is unthinkable, IMO.

I know he had an excellent year and was the 3rd-highest rated ER. But AA is not going to be the 3rd-highest rated ER if he's on a team where he isn't surrounded by Buckner and Bosa (and sometimes Ford). What this means is that a theoretical replacement is going to be propped up as well and play at an elevated level. That doesn't mean he'll replicate AA's performance, but it will help.

I think AA is a very solid player, but I don't see him being a guy who's going to maintain this level of production for the next 4-5 years (especially with a lesser supporting cast). I would love to keep him around long-term but I just don't think it's financially feasible.

If a team has 20 "core players" that doesn't mean keeping all 20 is realistic. Eventually, you have to prioritize those players and let some walk. It's not a matter of whether I want AA or not. Of course I do. I just don't think it's realistic. If they can keep him and make it work, great... I just don't think that's gonna happen.

Originally posted by ExtraBroccoli:

Originally posted by Izyniner:

Originally posted by AB81Rules:

I'd extend AA, give him a 4yr deal, lower his 2019 salary, give him upfront GTD RB, and 2020 base GTD for injury, with 2021 and 2022 being option years.

Ahhh AB where are you!!!!!

I've been a long time lurker but not overly sure.... did he disappear around the same time Buzz had his oopsie moment?

Nah he has a lot going on with his own website and tired of the bafoonery that goes on in here.

Originally posted by theduke85:

Originally posted by dj43:
His performance this year has clearly been that of a core player. He is also a complementary player to Bosa and Ford. Bosa already draws a lot of double teams, however, he would draw even more if AA was not a threat inside. Buckner also eats up a lot of double teams but all of that allows the others to exceed.

AA finished the season as the 3rd highest rated ER in the league, tied with Za'Darius Smith, fractionally higher than Bosa. That is the level of player we are talking about here. To consider letting him leave via anything other than a trade for someone of equal value is unthinkable, IMO.

I know he had an excellent year and was the 3rd-highest rated ER. But AA is not going to be the 3rd-highest rated ER if he's on a team where he isn't surrounded by Buckner and Bosa (and sometimes Ford). What this means is that a theoretical replacement is going to be propped up as well and play at an elevated level. That doesn't mean he'll replicate AA's performance, but it will help.

I think AA is a very solid player, but I don't see him being a guy who's going to maintain this level of production for the next 4-5 years (especially with a lesser supporting cast). I would love to keep him around long-term but I just don't think it's financially feasible.

If a team has 20 "core players" that doesn't mean keeping all 20 is realistic. Eventually, you have to prioritize those players and let some walk. It's not a matter of whether I want AA or not. Of course I do. I just don't think it's realistic. If they can keep him and make it work, great... I just don't think that's gonna happen.

To the extent he does not always face double teams, he benefits from others. However, when he is singled, he CONSISTENTLY dominates his opponent. Even when double-teamed, he is rarely moved out of the hole.

I just do not get the idea that this guy is not a core player that needs to be retained. I put him above Buckner in terms of value to the OL, not that I would want to make that choice.

Originally posted by dj43:
I just do not get the idea that this guy is not a core player that needs to be retained. I put him above Buckner in terms of value to the OL, not that I would want to make that choice.

Again, even if you think he IS a core player, only so many core players can be retained.

I don't think the Patriots wanted to lose Nate Solder, Trey Flowers, Chandler Jones, Danny Amendola (playoff superhero), Jimmy Garoppolo, etc etc but they had to make tough decisions, and we will too. These "we can restructure" or "the salary cap is going up" arguments are a little too optimistic for me, I don't think it will play out like that.

Originally posted by theduke85:

Again, even if you think he IS a core player, only so many core players can be retained.

I don't think the Patriots wanted to lose Nate Solder, Trey Flowers, Chandler Jones, Danny Amendola (playoff superhero), Jimmy Garoppolo, etc etc but they had to make tough decisions, and we will too. These "we can restructure" or "the salary cap is going up" arguments are a little too optimistic for me, I don't think it will play out like that.

Jimmy is rather different. I dont think this was $, this was the desire to start.

Originally posted by theduke85:

Originally posted by dj43:

I just do not get the idea that this guy is not a core player that needs to be retained. I put him above Buckner in terms of value to the OL, not that I would want to make that choice.

Again, even if you think he IS a core player, only so many core players can be retained.

I don't think the Patriots wanted to lose Nate Solder, Trey Flowers, Chandler Jones, Danny Amendola (playoff superhero), Jimmy Garoppolo, etc etc but they had to make tough decisions, and we will too. These "we can restructure" or "the salary cap is going up" arguments are a little too optimistic for me, I don't think it will play out like that.

Go look at their cap space, pre cut/restructure, etc, for 2021, 2022, 2023... they are in great shape going fwd
NE seems to have a hard line on what they will and won't pay guys, no matter who they are. They opt to just bring in cheaper replacements and let the system do the work

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by theduke85:

Originally posted by dj43:
I just do not get the idea that this guy is not a core player that needs to be retained. I put him above Buckner in terms of value to the OL, not that I would want to make that choice.

Again, even if you think he IS a core player, only so many core players can be retained.

I don't think the Patriots wanted to lose Nate Solder, Trey Flowers, Chandler Jones, Danny Amendola (playoff superhero), Jimmy Garoppolo, etc etc but they had to make tough decisions, and we will too. These "we can restructure" or "the salary cap is going up" arguments are a little too optimistic for me, I don't think it will play out like that.

Go look at their cap space, pre cut/restructure, etc, for 2021, 2022, 2023... they are in great shape going fwd
NE seems to have a hard line on what they will and won't pay guys, no matter who they are. They opt to just bring in cheaper replacements and let the system do the work

Also, Belichick could get away with some of those moves because he has the GOAT QB playing for him. Brady has covered up so many holes on that roster over the years. I don't think the Patriots are the model to follow in regard to cap space usage. That's especially true since we can *easily* bring back all of our premier FAs. Armstead, Buckner, Kittle, Warner, etc.

The math is not that difficult, and they've already begun the process of opening more space.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Go look at their cap space, pre cut/restructure, etc, for 2021, 2022, 2023... they are in great shape going fwd
NE seems to have a hard line on what they will and won't pay guys, no matter who they are. They opt to just bring in cheaper replacements and let the system do the work

Hey, if they can work it out, I'm all for it. I'm just skeptical.

Originally posted by okdkid:

Also, Belichick could get away with some of those moves because he has the GOAT QB playing for him. Brady has covered up so many holes on that roster over the years. I don't think the Patriots are the model to follow in regard to cap space usage. That's especially true since we can *easily* bring back all of our premier FAs. Armstead, Buckner, Kittle, Warner, etc.

The math is not that difficult, and they've already begun the process of opening more space.

Yup. In addition to the cap space they also have the best in the biz structuring the contracts and ensuring they don't get into cap hell.

Originally posted by theduke85:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Go look at their cap space, pre cut/restructure, etc, for 2021, 2022, 2023... they are in great shape going fwd
NE seems to have a hard line on what they will and won't pay guys, no matter who they are. They opt to just bring in cheaper replacements and let the system do the work

Hey, if they can work it out, I'm all for it. I'm just skeptical.

I get the skepticism, but they really are in great shape going fwd and have a guy who will never (knock on wood) let them get into cap hell running things :-)

Originally posted by theduke85:
Again, even if you think he IS a core player, only so many core players can be retained.

I don't think the Patriots wanted to lose Nate Solder, Trey Flowers, Chandler Jones, Danny Amendola (playoff superhero), Jimmy Garoppolo, etc etc but they had to make tough decisions, and we will too. These "we can restructure" or "the salary cap is going up" arguments are a little too optimistic for me, I don't think it will play out like that.

Go look at NE they retrain core players throughout their "dynasty" it's an overblown example IMHO.

These names you brought up don't backup what you're really saying either.

NE did resign Solder....NY is his third contract and was grossly overpaid.
Amendola was a FA signing so they DID pay him, dude was 33 when he went to the Lions
Flowers was an overrated players and they new he wasn't worth the contract....and apparently were right.
Jones WAS traded and a mistake.
They couldn't pay Jimmy G and Tom Brady, it's silly to even throw his name into this as an example.

Guess what they've already restructured Richburg and Kwon's contracts lol.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by theduke85:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Go look at their cap space, pre cut/restructure, etc, for 2021, 2022, 2023... they are in great shape going fwd
NE seems to have a hard line on what they will and won't pay guys, no matter who they are. They opt to just bring in cheaper replacements and let the system do the work

Hey, if they can work it out, I'm all for it. I'm just skeptical.

I get the skepticism, but they really are in great shape going fwd and have a guy who will never (knock on wood) let them get into cap hell running things :-)

I think the Niners will extend Buckner and Kittle and franchise tag Armstead, but it wouldn't surprise me if they traded him.

Why are people using the "can't bring them all back" narrative? It's not rooted in logic. There are several obvious paths for us to clear 2020 cap space. And in the long term...we have tons of space.

Two things to keep in mind:

1) We already have cap space for Armstead 's tag in 2020. It's done. Now it's about opening space for the draft, Sanders & Ward.
2) Extensions for Kittle & Buckner are just that...extensions. Not replacement deals. They can be constructed to use little, if any, 2020 cap space. They are already under contract for 2020. They can simply add on the years to the end of their current deals.

Originally posted by theduke85:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Go look at their cap space, pre cut/restructure, etc, for 2021, 2022, 2023... they are in great shape going fwd
NE seems to have a hard line on what they will and won't pay guys, no matter who they are. They opt to just bring in cheaper replacements and let the system do the work

Hey, if they can work it out, I'm all for it. I'm just skeptical.

I suggest you balance your skepticism with reality. PM is going to find a way to keep AA. For example, a simple restructuring of Garoppolo's contract would provide more than enough to keep AA. I expect that to happen.