Jacksonville Jaguar Arik Armstead-DT Thread

Originally posted by okdkid:

Originally posted by lamontb:
Yea can't call a guy elite after 1 good season.

*elite season

This for sure.

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by theduke85:

Again, even if you think he IS a core player, only so many core players can be retained.

I don't think the Patriots wanted to lose Nate Solder, Trey Flowers, Chandler Jones, Danny Amendola (playoff superhero), Jimmy Garoppolo, etc etc but they had to make tough decisions, and we will too. These "we can restructure" or "the salary cap is going up" arguments are a little too optimistic for me, I don't think it will play out like that.

Jimmy is rather different. I dont think this was $, this was the desire to start.

This, not $$ were the case. Saw an interview about that time and it was obvious that jimmy wasn't intierested in patriot money....he wanted to statrt. As a matter of fact, BB could have traded him to at least two other teams for more than a 2nd, but BB felt so bad about his hand picked, hand trained QB leaving ....and he acknowldged that he had done everything a great backup QB can do....that he deserved a good home. And that is exactly why Bellichek called JL with an offer for a 2nd. True, 9ers were not in AFC, and we would not see them more than once every 4 yrs or so. But the real deal was BB was bound and determined to see that his hand trained guy ended up in a good home.

For more on this story, read my lengthy post re; the goings down at the time, and why BB chose kyle and john. Probably in JG thread somewhere, and i think in 2019. We did not accidentally get JG because of money issue at PATs. He was offered something like $17 mil to backup and told BB he wanted to start and Bill knew he was more than ready.

English's post above is spot on.

Originally posted by theduke85:

Originally posted by dj43:

His performance this year has clearly been that of a core player. He is also a complementary player to Bosa and Ford. Bosa already draws a lot of double teams, however, he would draw even more if AA was not a threat inside. Buckner also eats up a lot of double teams but all of that allows the others to exceed.

AA finished the season as the 3rd highest rated ER in the league, tied with Za'Darius Smith, fractionally higher than Bosa. That is the level of player we are talking about here. To consider letting him leave via anything other than a trade for someone of equal value is unthinkable, IMO.

I know he had an excellent year and was the 3rd-highest rated ER. But AA is not going to be the 3rd-highest rated ER if he's on a team where he isn't surrounded by Buckner and Bosa (and sometimes Ford). What this means is that a theoretical replacement is going to be propped up as well and play at an elevated level. That doesn't mean he'll replicate AA's performance, but it will help.

I think AA is a very solid player, but I don't see him being a guy who's going to maintain this level of production for the next 4-5 years (especially with a lesser supporting cast). I would love to keep him around long-term but I just don't think it's financially feasible.

If a team has 20 "core players" that doesn't mean keeping all 20 is realistic. Eventually, you have to prioritize those players and let some walk. It's not a matter of whether I want AA or not. Of course I do. I just don't think it's realistic. If they can keep him and make it work, great... I just don't think that's gonna happen.

You think "AA is a solid player?" Well, yessssss.. he is a helluva lot more than solid. He is top three DT in the league and same for DE. That is a dang site more than "solid".

You mention AA won't be the same great player without Dee, Bosa, and Buck around him....well, yesssss....but we have already seen what happens to Buck, AA, and Bosa when Dee isn't around...as in out with a pec tear. None of those guys stood out. They all played well, but the result just was way less. In other words it takes more than 2, or 3 DTs/DEs to make a championship DL...you need 4. As PHX mentioned, MN had two standout DEs and were dying for two great DTs. Without them, MN DL was just passable okay. It was not great.

So altho AA would miss all three of Dee, , Buck, and Bosa, they would miss him equally. Look what happened when one of the four (DEE) dropped off the DL. All guys played great, but they were not enough. So the issue about AA missing his 3 buds goes both ways. Without one of the four, the other three can play their hearts out but never approach the effectiveness of the fabulous 4. So ding ding on AA not playing as well without 3 other all pros. Of course that is true. But it is the same for every one of the Fab Four. If one leaves, the rest don't do anywhere near as well..nor will they.

And as we have all seen, the really exciting part of the 49ers this yr is ....the amazing, fabulous four DL. Together , those 4 guys have given 9er fans the most excitement seen around here in more than 20 yrs. Really is there anything more fascinating than watching those 4 tee off on an Offense? Not to me. Keep the 4 together. And on top of that, make ER a top priority in FA., trades and /or draft. We are somewhat backed up by Blair and DJ Jones, both out with surgical injuries. But both will be back as depth next yr. But will they be as good as they were? That's why i would like to see another ER brot in. It takes all 4 to get the deadly effect that this foursome brings.

Originally posted by okdkid:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Yea can't call a guy elite after 1 good season.

*elite season

Serious question: would this really be considered an elite season?

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Serious question: would this really be considered an elite season?

10 sacks while being one of the best run stopping DTs in football? I'd say that is pretty close.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Serious question: would this really be considered an elite season?

10 sacks while being one of the best run stopping DTs in football? I'd say that is pretty close.

Makes sense.

So when a player is on a good year or on his first year and is playing at an Elite level, I simply say: "They're playing at an elite level." Not "they're an elite player." When they do it several years, then you can say they are.

So no, I wouldn't call Bosa elite. He's playing at that level and there is every reason to believe he will be an elite player, but he has to demonstrate he can do it consistently. A great recent example of a player that looked elite and then proved not to be is Aldon Smith.

Originally posted by Jakemall:
So when a player is on a good year or on his first year and is playing at an Elite level, I simply say: "They're playing at an elite level." Not "they're an elite player." When they do it several years, then you can say they are.

So no, I wouldn't call Bosa elite. He's playing at that level and there is every reason to believe he will be an elite player, but he has to demonstrate he can do it consistently. A great recent example of a player that looked elite and then proved not to be is Aldon Smith.

I like it.

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Originally posted by Jakemall:
So when a player is on a good year or on his first year and is playing at an Elite level, I simply say: "They're playing at an elite level." Not "they're an elite player." When they do it several years, then you can say they are.

So no, I wouldn't call Bosa elite. He's playing at that level and there is every reason to believe he will be an elite player, but he has to demonstrate he can do it consistently. A great recent example of a player that looked elite and then proved not to be is Aldon Smith.

I like it.

Great take.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by theduke85:

Again, even if you think he IS a core player, only so many core players can be retained.

I don't think the Patriots wanted to lose Nate Solder, Trey Flowers, Chandler Jones, Danny Amendola (playoff superhero), Jimmy Garoppolo, etc etc but they had to make tough decisions, and we will too. These "we can restructure" or "the salary cap is going up" arguments are a little too optimistic for me, I don't think it will play out like that.

Jimmy is rather different. I dont think this was $, this was the desire to start.

This, not $$ were the case. Saw an interview about that time and it was obvious that jimmy wasn't intierested in patriot money....he wanted to statrt. As a matter of fact, BB could have traded him to at least two other teams for more than a 2nd, but BB felt so bad about his hand picked, hand trained QB leaving ....and he acknowldged that he had done everything a great backup QB can do....that he deserved a good home. And that is exactly why Bellichek called JL with an offer for a 2nd. True, 9ers were not in AFC, and we would not see them more than once every 4 yrs or so. But the real deal was BB was bound and determined to see that his hand trained guy ended up in a good home.

For more on this story, read my lengthy post re; the goings down at the time, and why BB chose kyle and john. Probably in JG thread somewhere, and i think in 2019. We did not accidentally get JG because of money issue at PATs. He was offered something like $17 mil to backup and told BB he wanted to start and Bill knew he was more than ready.

English's post above is spot on.

Right. BB has got to be irked that Kraft over ruled him. Much respect to BB for putting Jimmy G in the best place possible for him. Will be tough for BB and Patriots fans to watch the 49ers win with their version of Steve Young. We know how difficult it is to find these guys. They will find out, too.

Awesome to see Arik Armstead finally put it all together this year. Hopefully we can keep the band together.

We need to finish this thing and have good memories to look back on regardless of what happens with AA.

I think he's back next year - it may take a home town discount, but I think he's back.

Originally posted by 49er-from-Yavin-IV:

Right. BB has got to be irked that Kraft over ruled him. Much respect to BB for putting Jimmy G in the best place possible for him. Will be tough for BB and Patriots fans to watch the 49ers win with their version of Steve Young. We know how difficult it is to find these guys. They will find out, too.

Agree. I think Belichick knew how good he was and wanted him as far away from New England as possible. Also, he probably grew attached to him because he was such a talent that he wanted that talent to be developed, hence Kyle. At least that's how I read the situation at that time.

Now if Belicheat and Kraft knew how good Jimmy wa going to be, in betting they keep him and trade Brady, but they may not have gotten those super bowls if they kept Jimmy and lost Tom.

Pay the man

Our kingggggggg