Jacksonville Jaguar Arik Armstead-DT Thread

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by JaggedJ:

Just because we can free up this and that in cap space doesn't mean we will. We'll try, but you can only restructure/cut for so long before it catches up to you and Shanalynch have consistently said that they're building for sustained success, not a one year charge.

At best we keep 2 of AA, Sanders, Ward and that's best case IMO. You can't sustain success by paying off contract players market value every time.

We can keep him for 1 year easily. Then that big cap hit drops off when we don't do it again. It's just a 1 year cap hit. It's not spread out over many years on the cap. It just hits hard 1 year and opens up huge space when we don't do it again. It's worth doing for 1 year to keep this elite defensive line in tact. It's exactly why we were good. It's what made this team elite.

If you're restructuring a bunch of players to make room then no it's not just a one year thing.

Cutting/trading players we don't use I'm more on board with and restructuring guys it absolutely makes some sense to do.

However, cutting/Restructuring everyone just to say "We could have x amount to make it all work" is borderline fairytale stuff. At some point the line that says "what is possible" has to intersect with "what is likely".

I will be very shocked if we keep all 3 AA, Sanders, Ward and it seems more feasible keeping both Sanders and Ward while losing AA than keeping AA and losing Sanders/Ward.

Originally posted by JaggedJ:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by JaggedJ:
Just because we can free up this and that in cap space doesn't mean we will. We'll try, but you can only restructure/cut for so long before it catches up to you and Shanalynch have consistently said that they're building for sustained success, not a one year charge.

At best we keep 2 of AA, Sanders, Ward and that's best case IMO. You can't sustain success by paying off contract players market value every time.

We can keep him for 1 year easily. Then that big cap hit drops off when we don't do it again. It's just a 1 year cap hit. It's not spread out over many years on the cap. It just hits hard 1 year and opens up huge space when we don't do it again. It's worth doing for 1 year to keep this elite defensive line in tact. It's exactly why we were good. It's what made this team elite.

If you're restructuring a bunch of players to make room then no it's not just a one year thing.

Cutting/trading players we don't use I'm more on board with and restructuring guys it absolutely makes some sense to do.

However, cutting/Restructuring everyone just to say "We could have x amount to make it all work" is borderline fairytale stuff. At some point the line that says "what is possible" has to intersect with "what is likely".

I will be very shocked if we keep all 3 AA, Sanders, Ward and it seems more feasible keeping both Sanders and Ward while losing AA than keeping AA and losing Sanders/Ward.

The cap increases in the off season. So no need to restructure anybody. 1 year franchise tag is possible easily.

Originally posted by okdkid:

Originally posted by dj43:
The above is the best answer to your question. There are MANY ways fit key guys under the cap, and we have one of the very best in the business running the cap.

Don't worry about signing players that don't produce after signing a big deal. Think Kaepernick and how the 49ers got out from under that one.

Should the Niners elect, they can also easily get out of: Garoppolo, Alexander, Ford, Richburg, McKinnon, Goodwin. The point is, all of these large deals are structured to be team friendly after year 2. I don't know why Buckner, Kittle or Armstead's extension would be any different.

It's true Paraag does usually negotiate us out after year 2 of most of these deals.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by JaggedJ:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by JaggedJ:

Just because we can free up this and that in cap space doesn't mean we will. We'll try, but you can only restructure/cut for so long before it catches up to you and Shanalynch have consistently said that they're building for sustained success, not a one year charge.

At best we keep 2 of AA, Sanders, Ward and that's best case IMO. You can't sustain success by paying off contract players market value every time.

We can keep him for 1 year easily. Then that big cap hit drops off when we don't do it again. It's just a 1 year cap hit. It's not spread out over many years on the cap. It just hits hard 1 year and opens up huge space when we don't do it again. It's worth doing for 1 year to keep this elite defensive line in tact. It's exactly why we were good. It's what made this team elite.

If you're restructuring a bunch of players to make room then no it's not just a one year thing.

Cutting/trading players we don't use I'm more on board with and restructuring guys it absolutely makes some sense to do.

However, cutting/Restructuring everyone just to say "We could have x amount to make it all work" is borderline fairytale stuff. At some point the line that says "what is possible" has to intersect with "what is likely".

I will be very shocked if we keep all 3 AA, Sanders, Ward and it seems more feasible keeping both Sanders and Ward while losing AA than keeping AA and losing Sanders/Ward.

The cap increases in the off season. So no need to restructure anybody. 1 year franchise tag is possible easily.

Sure, if you're only going to tag AA, let Sanders and Ward walk, not upgrade Kittle, let a lot of starting and key contributors go.

Yeah, sure we can keep AA by franchising and doing nothing else.

Possible and likely, the lines must intersect.

Originally posted by JaggedJ:
Sure, if you're only going to tag AA, let Sanders and Ward walk, not upgrade Kittle, let a lot of starting and key contributors go.

Yeah, sure we can keep AA by franchising and doing nothing else.

Possible and likely, the lines must intersect.

OK so restructure a few guys ALSO in addition to franchise tagging Armstead. Are you happy now? Yeah you try to keep as much of it together as you can. Armstead is more important than Sanders or Ward BTW. This thing is defensive line driven. We are not QB driven. The secondary guys look better with our defensive line. He is the most important piece. Sanders is getting older. Nice to keep him. Oh well if we can't.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by JaggedJ:

Sure, if you're only going to tag AA, let Sanders and Ward walk, not upgrade Kittle, let a lot of starting and key contributors go.

Yeah, sure we can keep AA by franchising and doing nothing else.

Possible and likely, the lines must intersect.

OK so restructure a few guys ALSO in addition to franchise tagging Armstead. Are you happy now? Yeah you try to keep as much of it together as you can. Armstead is more important than Sanders or Ward BTW. This thing is defensive line driven. We are not QB driven. The secondary guys look better with our defensive line. He is the most important piece. Sanders is getting older. Nice to keep him. Oh well if we can't.

But you said no restructuring and we do it easy? Now we're restructuring a few?

AA may be more important than Sanders and Ward individually, but is he more important than both collectively? Is he more important than both plus the 2,3,4+ key depth guys we might lose to reach the tag price.

Would love to keep AA, but it's not going to come without big sacrifices elsewhere and nowhere near as easy as you think.

More and more think gotta find a way to keep Armstead...

Originally posted by dj43:

The above is the best answer to your question. There are MANY ways fit key guys under the cap, and we have one of the very best in the business running the cap.

Don't worry about signing players that don't produce after signing a big deal. Think Kaepernick and how the 49ers got out from under that one.

EDIT: Just to review, Kaepernick's deal originally totaled $126M. He wound up getting paid just over $43M. That is the way we should be thinking about AA and the others that we want to keep.

It's much harder to get a free agent to sign a dumb dumb deal though. AA's agent has the leverage on this one.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Does the salary cap increase this off season? Do we get more room added? What will we have for 2020 salary cap room? You can say we have this much cap now. But sometimes you get an increase in one year to the next. So we may have more room.

I would like to sign him if we can. We could franchise tag him if we have the room.

There will be a cap increase, and it could be significant. Right now we have just under $14M in cap room. In looking at the current roster and possible contract moves (too lengthy and complicated to list), it is not unreasonable to bring the total space into the $40M range...and that is not even including a likely restructuring of Garoppolo's deal.

This. We are expected to start the new year around 21-22 mil in cap space with the rollover. Cutting McKinnon and Goodwin will get us to around 30 mil alone. Tons of other restructures we can do to get more space.

You have to keep Armstead, otherwise we will be back to square one with the pass rush plus don't forget he can stuff the run too. One could even argue he might have played better than DeFo this season.

Originally posted by Rascal:

You have to keep Armstead, otherwise we will be back to square one with the pass rush plus don't forget he can stuff the run too. One could even argue he might have played better than DeFo this season.

Yep...you don't let young stud pass rushers go in this league. Especially ones that can play both outside and in. Lynch spoke in great length about how one of he and Kyle's first visions together was to build a dominant championship caliber dline. They finally achieved that this year. Their not letting it break up after one season.

Originally posted by Willisfn4life:

Originally posted by Rascal:

You have to keep Armstead, otherwise we will be back to square one with the pass rush plus don't forget he can stuff the run too. One could even argue he might have played better than DeFo this season.

Yep...you don't let young stud pass rushers go in this league. Especially ones that can play both outside and in. Lynch spoke in great length about how one of he and Kyle's first visions together was to build a dominant championship caliber dline. They finally achieved that this year. Their not letting it break up after one season.

This. Pretty obvious with Jimmy we will be a run scheme O. Need to keep that line dominant.Get DJ Jones back and we can talk SB again. This is where Paraag will earn his money.Luckily with our depth we have fat to trim to keep this going. McKinnon etc.

Come back young king.

Fair.

Originally posted by okdkid:

Fair.

#49ers Arik Armstead says he's jut opposed to being tagged - there's no team he's rather be a part of, especially being from northern CA - but he says it's ultimately not his decision.

— Jennifer Lee Chan (@jenniferleechan) February 5, 2020

Hope big cat gets a deal.