Jacksonville Jaguar Arik Armstead-DT Thread

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by okdkid:
I think the move is to extend Armstead and tag Ward.

Extending Buckner will LOWER his 2020 cap. And extending Kittle may have little impact on 2020 depending upon how it's structured.

Not sure if you saw my post on the previous page asking about what is considered an 'easy out'. According to spotrac, I don't see an easy out for Kwon, although I see articles written indicating that there is.

The real question isn't whether to re-sign AA, it's how much is the team willing to pay to re-sign AA? Hypothetically, if AA wants to cash in and get paid a smidgen under Aaron Donald, should the team pay that? Probably not, right? I'm guessing most here want AA back, but it has to make sense within the structure of the team cap. Whatever AA makes, Buckner will justifiably command more.

If there was an out after two years, yeah, maybe. If Armstead wants elite money...the Niners can opt out of going the LTD route and still keep him via the tag. So, they're not forced to do anything.

Buckner may get more guaranteed money. But I would not be surprised if Armstead's contract is actually valued higher over the long term.

Originally posted by okdkid:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by okdkid:
I think the move is to extend Armstead and tag Ward.

Extending Buckner will LOWER his 2020 cap. And extending Kittle may have little impact on 2020 depending upon how it's structured.

Not sure if you saw my post on the previous page asking about what is considered an 'easy out'. According to spotrac, I don't see an easy out for Kwon, although I see articles written indicating that there is.

The real question isn't whether to re-sign AA, it's how much is the team willing to pay to re-sign AA? Hypothetically, if AA wants to cash in and get paid a smidgen under Aaron Donald, should the team pay that? Probably not, right? I'm guessing most here want AA back, but it has to make sense within the structure of the team cap. Whatever AA makes, Buckner will justifiably command more.

If there was an out after two years, yeah, maybe. If Armstead wants elite money...the Niners can opt out of going the LTD route and still keep him via the tag. So, they're not forced to do anything.

Buckner may get more guaranteed money. But I would not be surprised if Armstead's contract is actually valued higher over the long term.

I'm not clear what makes an out and easy out. To me, it means not a lot of dead cap hit after cutting a player. There's an article stating that Kwon has an easy out:
https://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2019/03/12/kwon-alexander-contract-details-49ers/
But when I look at spotrac or over the cap, I see big dead cap hits for cutting Kwon anytime before 2023.
https://overthecap.com/player/kwon-alexander/3972/

I know AA is from around here and likes it here. I hope that weighs a lot and factors into his contract demands although I'll never blame a player for getting as much money as possible on that second contract.

Originally posted by thl408:
I'm not clear what makes an out and easy out. To me, it means not a lot of dead cap hit after cutting a player. There's an article stating that Kwon has an easy out:
https://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2019/03/12/kwon-alexander-contract-details-49ers/
But when I look at spotrac or over the cap, I see big dead cap hits for cutting Kwon anytime before 2023.
https://overthecap.com/player/kwon-alexander/3972/

I know AA is from around here and likes it here. I hope that weighs a lot and factors into his contract demands although I'll never blame a player for getting as much money as possible on that second contract.

Kwon's probably isn't the best example anymore since they re-did his deal. Previously, they had a possible out (and the associated long term cap savings) after year 1.

"Dead money" is present any time a player with multiple years left is cut... including late round rookies. What matters is the difference between the dead money and the projected cap hit.

Alexander's 2020 was lowered from $11.25 million to $976,235 with the rest paid out as an option bonus on April 1, 2020. The team added three voidable years to the contract for salary cap purposes. Alexander's contract will now void on the 5th day of the 2023 waiver period. This will make Alexander an unrestricted free agent in 2023, same as he was scheduled based on the original contract.

Originally posted by thl408:
I'm not clear what makes an out and easy out. To me, it means not a lot of dead cap hit after cutting a player. There's an article stating that Kwon has an easy out:
https://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2019/03/12/kwon-alexander-contract-details-49ers/
But when I look at spotrac or over the cap, I see big dead cap hits for cutting Kwon anytime before 2023.
https://overthecap.com/player/kwon-alexander/3972/

I know AA is from around here and likes it here. I hope that weighs a lot and factors into his contract demands although I'll never blame a player for getting as much money as possible on that second contract.

Kwon restructured his contract back in late Nov.

On November 23, 2019 the 49ers and Kwon Alexander completed a contract restructure. The team pro-rated a small amount ($333,525) of Alexander's remaining 2019 salary to signing bonus. Alexander's 2020 was lowered from $11.25 million to $976,235 with the rest paid out as an option bonus on April 1, 2020. The team added three voidable years to the contract for salary cap purposes. Alexander's contract will now void on the 5th day of the 2023 waiver period. This will make Alexander an unrestricted free agent in 2023, same as he was scheduled based on the original contract.

Originally posted by okdkid:

Originally posted by thl408:
I'm not clear what makes an out and easy out. To me, it means not a lot of dead cap hit after cutting a player. There's an article stating that Kwon has an easy out:
https://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2019/03/12/kwon-alexander-contract-details-49ers/
But when I look at spotrac or over the cap, I see big dead cap hits for cutting Kwon anytime before 2023.
https://overthecap.com/player/kwon-alexander/3972/

I know AA is from around here and likes it here. I hope that weighs a lot and factors into his contract demands although I'll never blame a player for getting as much money as possible on that second contract.

Kwon's probably isn't the best example anymore since they re-did his deal. Previously, they had a possible out (and the associated long term cap savings) after year 1.

"Dead money" is present any time a player with multiple years left is cut... including late round rookies. What matters is the difference between the dead money and the projected cap hit.

Alexander's 2020 was lowered from $11.25 million to $976,235 with the rest paid out as an option bonus on April 1, 2020. The team added three voidable years to the contract for salary cap purposes. Alexander's contract will now void on the 5th day of the 2023 waiver period. This will make Alexander an unrestricted free agent in 2023, same as he was scheduled based on the original contract.

lol just posted that too

yeah end of the day I care more about the savings vs what the DM is. IF cutting him after 2021 saves them $9M that's a good thing.

Thanks. Ah yes, Kwon reworked his deal.

I love AA but I'm kind of cautious about a massive signing. I mean he hasn't done anything until this year, the same year that Ford, Buck, and Bosa were all out there with him. How much of his successes were the result of so much disruption from those three?

Originally posted by wolfpack2192:

I love AA but I'm kind of cautious about a massive signing. I mean he hasn't done anything until this year, the same year that Ford, Buck, and Bosa were all out there with him. How much of his successes were the result of so much disruption from those three?

AA was a monster. He was a project when we drafted him and he finally seems to have figured it out. He has always been a phenomenal run defender and this year he finally added a strong pass rush to it.

Originally posted by wolfpack2192:

I love AA but I'm kind of cautious about a massive signing. I mean he hasn't done anything until this year, the same year that Ford, Buck, and Bosa were all out there with him. How much of his successes were the result of so much disruption from those three?

Are we losing Ford, Bosa, and Buckner?

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by wolfpack2192:
I love AA but I'm kind of cautious about a massive signing. I mean he hasn't done anything until this year, the same year that Ford, Buck, and Bosa were all out there with him. How much of his successes were the result of so much disruption from those three?

AA was a monster. He was a project when we drafted him and he finally seems to have figured it out. He has always been a phenomenal run defender and this year he finally added a strong pass rush to it.

This.

He was raw coming out of college. He has finally developed and now people are oaky with letting him go? If I'm a GM I'm not in the business of developing guys, giving them 5th yr options, THEN just letting them walk when they've finally figured it out. He just turned 26. IMO his best football is ahead of him.

He should at the very least be tagged.

FWIW I'm more interested in having AA long-term vs Ford. IF Ford gives me like 250 snaps again his ass is out after this yr. He's older than AA, has LT health issues, and can't play inside/outside like AA.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by wolfpack2192:
I love AA but I'm kind of cautious about a massive signing. I mean he hasn't done anything until this year, the same year that Ford, Buck, and Bosa were all out there with him. How much of his successes were the result of so much disruption from those three?

AA was a monster. He was a project when we drafted him and he finally seems to have figured it out. He has always been a phenomenal run defender and this year he finally added a strong pass rush to it.

This.

He was raw coming out of college. He has finally developed and now people are oaky with letting him go? If I'm a GM I'm not in the business of developing guys, giving them 5th yr options, THEN just letting them walk when they've finally figured it out. He just turned 26. IMO his best football is ahead of him.

He should at the very least be tagged.

FWIW I'm more interested in having AA long-term vs Ford. IF Ford gives me like 250 snaps again his ass is out after this yr. He's older than AA, has LT health issues, and can't play inside/outside like AA.

Agreed. Replacing a three down DL that can rush from the edge and the interior is going to be a heck of a lot harder than finding a situational pass rusher to replace Ford.

Originally posted by SFrush:
Agreed. Replacing a three down DL that can rush from the edge and the interior is going to be a heck of a lot harder than finding a situational pass rusher to replace Ford.

Yup, structure AA's contract (or Bucks new deal) with the idea that Ford is most likely gone or taking a massive cut after the 2020 season. I like Ford and his ability to get to the QB is pretty awesome BUT he's gotta play more than 250 snaps for that money to be worth it.

Dee Ford will be 29 next month. This isn't a hard choice.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Dee Ford will be 29 next month. This isn't a hard choice.

His age is compounded by his knee issues. Realistically I don't see him lasting past 31 which is why investing in a rotational edge with some speed is a must in this upcoming draft.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by wolfpack2192:
I love AA but I'm kind of cautious about a massive signing. I mean he hasn't done anything until this year, the same year that Ford, Buck, and Bosa were all out there with him. How much of his successes were the result of so much disruption from those three?

AA was a monster. He was a project when we drafted him and he finally seems to have figured it out. He has always been a phenomenal run defender and this year he finally added a strong pass rush to it.

This.

He was raw coming out of college. He has finally developed and now people are oaky with letting him go? If I'm a GM I'm not in the business of developing guys, giving them 5th yr options, THEN just letting them walk when they've finally figured it out. He just turned 26. IMO his best football is ahead of him.

He should at the very least be tagged.

FWIW I'm more interested in having AA long-term vs Ford. IF Ford gives me like 250 snaps again his ass is out after this yr. He's older than AA, has LT health issues, and can't play inside/outside like AA.

The fact that AA is 26 makes it really worthwhile to extend him. Some free agents get paid for what they've done as they approach 29/30 years old and are exiting their prime. The FAs that are just about to enter their prime are worth so much more.